| Author | Message | ||
     Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 6868 Registered: 1-2003  |
Um, sorry, I was confusing you with someone else.  | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 2202 Registered: 5-2001 |
No problem ... but you're too young for the senility excuse!  Look for me to be on foot in that area on girls' 3rd-5th grade softball nights, however. (Our daughter's game is on Wednesday this week.) | ||
| xavier67 Citizen Username: Xavier67 Post Number: 522 Registered: 6-2002 |
Almost got hit at the intersection today crossing Valley on my way to the train station. The driver almost hits me, then has the gall to honk at me as he/she sped away towards S Orange. I almost threw the lawn signs I had just stolen from houses on Oakview (only DeLuca signs were available--otherwise, I would have taken Profeta signs as well.) at him/her. The signs are more substantial than a New Yorker magazine (did I get that right, Tom?) | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 6895 Registered: 1-2003 |
The only way to make that work is to have it ready in your hand before anything happens. And now I'll have to admit that my move was premeditated. I had the magazine in hand, poised to throw it before I entered the crosswalk, knowing that someone was likely to violate it. And the problem with this is that it's premeditated. I often think that acts like this are justified in the face of boneheaded driving, but they're not. And think of how a cop or judge look at it. It's more unusual than failing to yield to a pedestrian, and they may not mitigate your wrongdoing with the driver's wrongdoing. A friend of mine got HIT and KNOCKED DOWN by a car in a crosswalk in Princeton, and my friend ended up getting the ticket. He even faced the judge, which did no good. I think law enforcement sees the law as whatever happens usually, not what's on the books. Is that what's called precedent? | ||
| Meandtheboys Citizen Username: Meandtheboys Post Number: 924 Registered: 12-2004  |
Love, love, love it when the driver, who is clearly in the wrong, has the cajones to yell at you. A couple of years ago I, along with my three small children, was almost mowed down in the crosswalk in front of Prospect Church. The car came screaming around the right turn off Tuscan on to Prospect and was barely able to stop in time, as we just started crossing, only after I looked both ways several times. When myself and every other mother present at the time started yelling at them, they yelled back, as if I had some nerve trying to cross in the crosswalk. It was a horrible, terrible, frightening, upsetting experience, and I have not used the crosswalk since, either with children or without. Tom, how is it that your friend who was hit and knocked down got a ticket? I'm really not comprehending that one! | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 6899 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't remember. It was about 12 years ago. It was some twisted logic from the judge. Maybe he said something lame like, "you should have known better." | ||
| letters016 Citizen Username: Letters016 Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2005 |
As a letter carrier, I cross the streets of this town often. I have made it a point, and teach it to my kids, that it is better to let the cars go by and then cross. You don't have to worry about impatient drivers or feet slipping of the brake. They have a hard time hitting you after they pass. I feel that as the pedestrian I have the right-of-way and if I want to I can yield it to the driver. When I am driving and I see someone up ahead patiently waiting at an intersection to cross I start to slow down. That gives the cars behind me time to do likewise. Then I can safely stop and yield to the crossers. That is assuming that there is no traffic coming the other way. I believe it is dangerous for someone to stop traffic in one direction while a steady flow of traffic is coming from the other way. I think that that creates a situation in which bad things can happen. Also, while I have NO PROBLEM with stopping for people in the crosswalks in town I do have a couple of other concerns. First, the signs state you must yield to pedestrians IN the crosswalk, not standing on the sidewalk. I personally stop for people entering and believe it is the right thing to do but am not sure that you are obligated to do this. Secondly, and this is the one that gets to me the fastest, cars are supposed to yield at the croswalks. Why, then, do people think that that means they can cross anywhere they want and get the same reaction from drivers? Are we supposed to drive thru town at 5MPH just in case someone steps off the sidewalk at any given place? And then they give you that look or gesture as if they did nothing wrong and you are an inconsiderate jerk. | ||
| Lucifer Citizen Username: Lucifer Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2005 |
Tom, was your friend in a crosswalk? If not he broke the law. You said earlier that you have taken a large sample of the vehicular behavior on valley street. Lets be realistic about that ok. The stopping ditance for an average car with perfect brakes and perfect driving conditions is 100 feet. Thats a driver whose reaction time is also perfect. Pedestrians should wait for the lights to change at baker or oakland before making the plunge. That light has no absolutely no purpose except to create more traffic. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 5647 Registered: 5-2001 |
The traffic light at Oakview and Valley isn't fully installed yet and it is creating a dangerous condition because the walk/don't walk feature has not yet been activated. Motorists seeing a blinking yellow light are far less likely to yield to pedestrians trying to cross Valley Street because the motorists along Valley Street expect the pedestrians to wait until the light turns green (which it simply hasn't been capable of doing for either of the days I have tried to cross at that intersection since the traffic light was activated). Conditions were safer for pedestrians when there was no blinking light at that intersection. Anyone know if/when the traffic light is going to be fully operational? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 7027 Registered: 1-2003 |
Yes, my friend was in a crosswalk when he got hit. He knew the law, which is why he was shocked that the judge didn't uphold it. The light at Valley and Oakview, once it works right, will probably enable pedestrians to cross Valley more safely. I call that a purpose. It will also allow vehicles on Oakview to get through the intersection. That's a second purpose. Are you saying that these things won't be achieved? If you're saying that the price is slowing down Valley, I agree, but there will be two benefits. | ||
| Ligeti Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 243 Registered: 7-2002 |
Sounds like quite a few people think pedestrians can use crosswalks only if vehicular traffic is not present. The concept of "Yield for Pedestrians" is perhaps the most BASIC rule of the road, whether or not traffic is traveling in both directions, and whether someone is standing in the crosswalk vs. on the sidewalk waiting to use the crosswalk (what a moronic assertion). Check out Prospect during school hours -- cars fly through crosswalks while children and parents wait desperately for an opening in the traffic (the drivers are often blabbing away on their repulsive cell phones). According to Letters016's guidelines, these children should risk their lives and wade out into traffic if they are serious about getting to school on time. | ||
| trapper Citizen Username: Trapper Post Number: 195 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well, now that a crosswalk is there with a signal for pedestrians, those on foot must wait for the signal to cross, even if there's no oncoming traffic. If a pedestrian enters a crosswalk while the traffic has the light, the pedestrian is wrong, not the traffic. | ||
| letters016 Citizen Username: Letters016 Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2005  |
Joan, I believe it is customary to have the light blinking yellow and red for a period of time (don't know how long) so that people who travel these roads can become aware of the impending usage of the light. I think that this is a good thing. Not everyone travels these roads daily. Consider this the warning stage that the light will become activated soon. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 5649 Registered: 5-2001 |
Letters: I can understand how the blinking lights might be a good introduction to the traffic light for drivers of motor vehicles passing through the intersection but it poses a real danger for pedestrians at that intersection, many of whom are children. Since all licensed motor vehicle operators passing through that intersection should know enough to stop at a red light and go at a green light, I fail to understand the need for this grace period when the light was installed primarily to help pedestrians trying to cross at that intersection. | ||
| letters016 Citizen Username: Letters016 Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2005 |
Ligeti, “and whether someone is standing in the crosswalk vs. on the sidewalk waiting to use the crosswalk (what a moronic assertion). Check out Prospect during school hours -- cars fly through crosswalks while children and parents wait desperately for an opening in the traffic (the drivers are often blabbing away on their repulsive cell phones). According to Letters016's guidelines, these children should risk their lives and wade out into traffic if they are serious about getting to school on time.” I do stop for people on Prospect and do stop for kids crossing the street and do drive courteously. Let me refresh your memory, I said “I personally stop for people entering and believe it is the right thing to do”. What I questioned was, because I really did not know the answer to it, are you supposed to stop for people standing by the crosswalk but still on the sidewalk. And if the answer is yes, then how close to the crosswalk do they have to be? Aside from the obvious crossers, what if two people are just standing there talking? Is there a rule that says you can’t “fake-it”? If you drive thru town after school lets out you will notice kids milling around on the sidewalks by the crosswalks. Am I to assume that they are ready to cross en masse? As it is I already drive very slowly thru town when these conditions occur just in case one of them crosses without looking. Is there an area, an on deck circle if you like, that we should be aware of? There is a lot of vagueness when it comes to things like this. If I am driving and there is a person who is obviously trying to cross, then I will stop. I thought I made that point, moronic assertion aside. Now, for your enlightenment, here are my “guidelines”. Drive courteously. Don’t be in such a rush to get here and there, leave five minutes early and enjoy the ride. If you are late, then you’re late and it’s your fault, not anybody else’s. Don’t make it their problem. If you are driving, then drive. As far as I know, driving does not entail eating, drinking, talking on cell phones, putting make-up on or any of the other ridiculous things we see people do. And most of all, remember that you are operating a deadly weapon. That’s a far cry from what you depicted. | ||
| letters016 Citizen Username: Letters016 Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2005 |
Joan, I have seen a lot of new traffic lights put up in the years I have been driving. All of them start with the blinking mode first and then are later activated to regular cycle. I don't know, maybe there is a rule somewhere about this. I do agree with you. I think it is probably more dangerous now with a blinking light than it was before. If for no other reason than it is another distraction for drivers and they may not see pedestrians as quickly as before. Hopefully it will be normal soon. I go thru there several times a day and can't wait for it to be better. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 8531 Registered: 5-2001 |
Joan, people tend to see what they have seen before. The last thing anyone wants is drivers hitting their brakes and skidding into pedestrians either in the crosswalk or waiting at the curb. Patience, patience. | ||
| Ligeti Citizen Username: Ligeti Post Number: 244 Registered: 7-2002 |
You make the case for stopping whenever pedestrians are waiting on the sidewalk to cross. Every crosswalk is different -- at some, stepping into the street to establish intent is safe & wise, in others it is the same as stepping into a lane of active traffic. I'm glad you drive courteously, but where I come from, if you can stop your vehicle safely, you ALWAYS stop and yield to pedestrians waiting to cross. They get the benefit of the doubt under almost all circumstances. From my dad to my high school driver's ed. instructor, this concept was hammered home repeatedly. I know NJ is different than elsewhere, but in most states you can be ticketed if a policeman sees you blow through a crosswalk while people are waiting to cross. What really irks me are the obnoxious idiots that honk at you (especially on Prospect in the mornings) if you stop to let parents and children use the crosswalk. There are a lot of Maplewood drivers who behave in this way. Bizarre. | ||
| letters016 Citizen Username: Letters016 Post Number: 65 Registered: 5-2005 |
Ligeti, Boy you really aren’t from New Jersey, are you? Courtesy is something that most drivers think of only if it benefits them. I don’t know where you’re from, but here in the garden state if you keep a safe distance between you and the guy in front of you, expect everyone else to pull into that space. Right on red means you can just cruise thru the light and jam your way into traffic. Stop signs are always optional. We have no idea what a yield sign means. Speed limits are mere suggestions. Each of your children should have at least three places to be every night with about one minute travel time between them and they are always on the opposite side of town. Oh, and you have to also attend all of the things that you are involved with. I am in absolute awe that everybody’s car doesn’t look like it just lost the demolition derby. | ||
| hch Citizen Username: Hch Post Number: 108 Registered: 8-2002 |
I must tell my story.... I was jogging last week and came to pedestrian walkway. I entered the walkway but slowed down because there were two cars approaching. The first car did not stop for me (even though he could have safely) and drove right past me even though I was physically in the walkway. As he drove by I yelled "Thank you" and kept walking through (the second car stopped for me). The lovely man in the first car stopped, rolled down his window and yelled "What?!" I pointed to the road and yelled "pedestrian walkway!" He yelled back, "So I can stop and get rear-ended, a**hole!" And he drove off. Let's review. In Mr. Driver's opinion, it is better to hit a pedestrian than to get rear-ended by a car. |
