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Jen S
Citizen
Username: Jen_s
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 4, 2005 - 2:49 pm: |     |
Does anyone know what the plans are for the former site of the Home Expo Design Center on Springfield Avenue?
(As a side question, where are most of the threads/postings that address new stores, tenants, etc. (for topics that are not about restaurants and/or entertainment)?? |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 6583
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 4, 2005 - 4:30 pm: | |
Jen:
To answer your second question, it depends on what you want to say/know about new stores, etc.
If you have a question, such as your first question above, your best bet would be to post it in Please Help.
If you want to share a bad experience with a new store, Soapbox would be the most appropriate venue.
If you like the look of a new storefront or window display, Virtual Cafe is likely the best place to share.
Request for a source for home repair supplies might be best placed in Home Fixit.
However, there really are no rules. |
Jgberkeley
Citizen
Username: Jgberkeley
Post Number: 4324
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 4, 2005 - 8:59 pm: | |
"Does anyone know what the plans are for the former site of the Home Expo Design Center on Springfield Avenue?"
Yes,
A new Nail Salon.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2898
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 5, 2005 - 3:20 am: | |
jg
Or a hair place. And even better it's 'Coming Soon!'
My sister just asked me as we drove past there tonight if I happened to hear what will open there. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 9670
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 5, 2005 - 6:16 am: | |
When Expo closed the announcement indicated that Home Depot would expand into the space. To be honest I can't imagine an HD that size, unless they expand their merchandise lines. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2905
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, November 5, 2005 - 2:40 pm: | |
Bob-
I heard the same thing about Home Depot wxpanding, and that's what I told my sister. |
Soulful Mr T
Citizen
Username: Howardt
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 6, 2005 - 5:46 pm: | |
I heard it was going to be a gay roller disco. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 7835
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, November 6, 2005 - 6:37 pm: | |
Either what George said or what Soulful Mr T said. Possibly both. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 3832
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 6, 2005 - 10:09 pm: | |
Maybe they'll put in a Lowe's. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 10617
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 7, 2005 - 7:17 am: | |
How about a driving range and batting practice cages?
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Spqr
Citizen
Username: Spqr
Post Number: 45
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 7, 2005 - 10:26 am: | |
I have a few acquaintances who worked at the Expo and when the place was closing they were told by Expo that Home Depot was taking over the space to expand their product offerings. It sounded like it would be a design center that was above Lowes but below Expo on the price/quality scale. |
monster
Supporter
Username: Monster
Post Number: 1537
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 7, 2005 - 12:54 pm: | |
It's going to be a Target, or a WalMart, or a....
A WalMart would be believable, especially since they already have other locations where they share side by side locations. |
george H
Citizen
Username: Georgieboy
Post Number: 49
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 7, 2005 - 1:01 pm: | |
I had heard that Target was going to be built on the site of the driving range. |
monster
Supporter
Username: Monster
Post Number: 1540
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 7, 2005 - 1:08 pm: | |
But plans do change, why build a new building when one already exists? |
george H
Citizen
Username: Georgieboy
Post Number: 50
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 7, 2005 - 2:39 pm: | |
I heard that the plans are in front of the Union planning board as we speak,to get the needed approval. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 412
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 11:26 pm: | |
Would they really build a Target or a Wal*Mart? The ones on Route 22 are not that far away. |
Jonathan Teixeira
Citizen
Username: Jhntxr
Post Number: 138
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 5:44 pm: | |
ess, There are a lot of people who are not so excited about driving on route 22. |
Tom Carlson
Citizen
Username: Tomcarlson
Post Number: 98
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 11:07 pm: | |
I have been following this issue informally over the past several months. Here are a few of the facts surrounding this proposed development.
The property in question is the site of the Crescent Driving Range, along the south side of Springfield Avenue, east of Home Depot and west of Vaux Hall Road.
The proposal is to create a retail center consisting of a Target store and a BJ’s Wholesale Club, in separate buildings. These two buildings would have a combined floor area of approximately 260,000 sq. ft., which is roughly the same area as the combined Home Depot and Expo building nearby. The total parking capacity would be about 1,200 cars.
The entrance to the site would be about a quarter mile west of Vaux Hall Road. A new signalized intersection would be created at this entrance. This would be the only entrance to the site.
Traffic volume studies, including turning movements, were conducted for this area over the last two years. The developer’s published study projects increases of 50 percent for peak traffic flow rates along Springfield Avenue. About two-thirds of the new traffic would come from nearby communities and travel only on local streets. The other one-third would come via Interstate-78.
As part of the proposal, the developer would make significant roadway improvements to Springfield Avenue from the site entrance to Vaux Hall Road, including the Vaux Hall Road intersection. These would include dedicated turning lanes and separate through lanes on Springfield Avenue. No improvements have been proposed for any other roads or intersections.
This proposal is currently before the Union Township planning board. The hearing started in July and will probably take at least two more months.
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bill671
Citizen
Username: Bill671
Post Number: 152
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:13 am: | |
Tom C - I'm primarily asking this of you given your position in town, but all others are more than welcome to chime in.
Knowing what a nightmare driving up from Home Depot / Union Marketplace / Valley Fair and even Great Estern has always been due to the narrowing of Springfield Avenue by Crescent, what are your thoughts on the effect of our one lane Springfield Avenue, and Valley Street for traffic enroute to the new stores? I forsee a backup particularly on Springfield Avenue. Sure - they're signalizing the entrance to the shopping center, but are they doing anything about Springfield Avenue between Millburn Ave (at the town line) and Vaux Hall Road?
Just as "all roads lead to Rome", all Maplewood many surrounding community streets lead to the Avenue as being the major thorofare funneling the traffic into that area.
I know many of these points were addressed when Home Depot came in, and that is a big reason why Springfield Avenue is configured the way it is now, but I think we're talking a lot more traffic then previously.
Look how Route 10 is on the weekend, in the area of Home Depot and Costco in East Hanover.
Does Maplewood have any say on the situation?
Do you know if the Township is looking at it in any "official" sense? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 9744
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 4:34 am: | |
If you look at population density, it is reasonable to expect that most of the shoppers at the new Target and BJ's will be coming from Maplewood, South Orange, East Orange, Irvington and Newark. I think this development will have a major impact on traffic in Maplewood on Valley, Ridgewood, Wyoming and Springfield Avenue as well as streets such as Elmwood and Burnett which appear to be used to avoid the congestion on Springfield.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is much we can do about it as the development is in Union. To rant a little I think that 78 basically cut off the section of Union north of 78. I don't think Union pays much attention to that area of their town (I don't think I have ever seen a Union police car on Vaux Hall Road or Springfield Avenue). From Union's point of view developing SA is a great tax revenue builder, without impacting the quality of life south of 78. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 4404
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 7:36 am: | |
"These two buildings would have a combined floor area of approximately 260,000 sq. ft., with parking capacity of about 1,200 cars. The developer’s published study projects increases of 50 percent for peak traffic flow rates along Springfield Avenue."
Tom, do you think this would help or hurt Mr. Ryans plans to build a small hotel on Springfield Avenue?  |
Tom Carlson
Citizen
Username: Tomcarlson
Post Number: 99
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 10:59 am: | |
Bill,
Let me answer your last two questions first. Maplewood has no jurisdiction in the matter, nor does any other municipality. In New Jersey, municipalities are highly autonomous, especially with regard to land use and development. Over the last few years there has been some talk in the legislature about creating regional planning oversight, but it has yet to become law. Hence, outsiders have only the power of persuasion before the local planning board, or any behind-the-scenes influence they might have with the town or the developer.
Local officials in Maplewood have been following the proposal but have not taken any public action to date. The Millburn Township Committee, by comparison, has issued a formal statement expressing their concern about the anticipated traffic congestion. Their officials have had at least one informal meeting with the developer, in which they sought additional traffic studies. Their actions, of course, have no official impact on the developer or the Union planning board. Separately, as near as I can tell, no one from the City of Springfield has had any direct involvement with this matter.
In my opinion, the biggest challenge to those who oppose this project is that it largely conforms to Union’s zoning regulations. (The existing driving range does not.) Consequently, the developer only needs modest zoning variances, and it is unrealistic to believe the project will be killed outright by the planning board. It is conceivable the project could be scaled back, but I’m not sure I’d rate that as a likely outcome. Perhaps most realistic is that the developer would be required to conduct significant roadway improvements beyond the immediate vicinity of the site. This would include the major nearby intersections on Springfield Avenue, Valley Street, Millburn Avenue, Vaux Road, and perhaps Burnett Avenue south of I-78. I must emphasize that this is all my own speculation, as an individual.
Finally, you asked about my thoughts on the traffic situation. In my opinion, the project is vastly oversized for the location, notwithstanding Union’s zoning regulations. It will create significant new congestion, especially at peak hours on weekday afternoons and on Saturdays. Below is a table from the developers traffic study. It shows the percentage distribution of new trips to the site, where ‘new trips’ means traffic that is not part of the current traffic profile on Springfield Avenue. Bear in mind that these are rough estimates partly based on marketing demographics, so they should be regarded as general indicators only.
| To/from northwest on Vaux Hall Road | 6% | | To/from northeast Valley Street | 11% | | To/from east on Springfield Avenue (east of Vaux Hall Rd) | 29% | | To/from south on Vaux Hall Road (not I-78) | 11% | | To/from west on Springfield Ave (not I-78) | 8% | | To/from east on I-78 | 17% | | To/from west on I-78 | 18% |
The big ticket items will be on Springfield Avenue east of the site, as you suggest, and also the two access points to I-78. The latter are what bother me personally, but I’m sure everybody can find something to dislike in this traffic profile.
I wish I had better news to share on this situation. But I figured people like to hear the facts, when available, rather than relying on hearsay.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 9752
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:30 pm: | |
Isn't Springfield Avenue in Union and Springfield still a state highway (Route 124)? I would think the state would have some control of congestion on a state road caused by the development.
Unfortunately, even if this is the case, Maplewood took over ownership of our stretch of SA, so that can't really help us. |
bill671
Citizen
Username: Bill671
Post Number: 154
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 12:42 pm: | |
Looks like Maplewood is gonna get hosed pretty well on this one. I read your chart as 29% more traffic on Springfield Ave, headed towards the new stores. I'm pretty sure that estimate is all balanced throughout the week, but I should think the traffic is going to be most seriously impacted come the weekend - when more people are going to be out shopping.
I'm sure it's unlikely, but was kind of dreaming the developer would be thinking like a good citizen and have creative answers in mind as regards to the traffic situation between Millburn Avenue and Vaux Hall Road. That's going to be a major league bottleneck. Even limiting parking on that stretch is unlikely to be much of an alternative as there is simply no where else for the cars to go. Then again they're in it to make money - not correct a traffic issue that's probably 100 years old.
I am in no way infering that the Township should waste big chunks of cash on a legal battle opposing a development in another community, but I hope they are at least looking at precedents and weighing options. Even the threat of a long legal battle is going to hit a developer in the pocketbook, and make them a bit more amenable to lessening impact.
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MIKE C.
Citizen
Username: Mikec
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:04 am: | |
Just bring back the flea market. |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 2825
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 7:06 am: | |
I would love to see the flea market return, but I'm not holding my breath. I found some amazing things there (and some amazing bargains on ordinary things) almost every time I went.
Probably half the people here (on MOL) don't even know what we're talking about either. |
Jonathan Teixeira
Citizen
Username: Jhntxr
Post Number: 157
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 9:16 am: | |
What about the Nursing home next to home depot? South Mountain Rehab,they are sanwiched between the driving range and home depot.They should be considered in all this "development". Right now it's a quiet spot in all the chaos of Sprinfield ave.
Oh the good ol' days of the flea market.
BobK there's union police presence in and around Vauxhall every day, they actually cleaned up that area a couple of years ago.There is a mobile unit that parks on SA down by the old Produce market, and from there the officers use bikes. Now the same guys are out of jail again and hang around the dunkin donut just on the maplewood line.
I wonder if they can build an exit/entrance off the 78 straight into this proposed site, that would help alleviate some of the traffic problems on SA.
Isn't Union the most populated county in the state?? |
Tom Carlson
Citizen
Username: Tomcarlson
Post Number: 100
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 9:45 am: | |
Bill,
It’s worse than you think. The table refers to the percentage breakdown of new traffic coming from the various directions. The actual amount of new traffic, at peak periods, will be about 50% greater than today.
Whether Maplewood is “gonna get hosed” probably depends on your view of cause and effect; certainly, we’re going to get more traffic. To me, the underlying problem is the strength of home rule for municipalities in New Jersey. This, in turn, leads to autonomy of local zoning and dependence on local property taxes, both of which fuel development. And, of course, the developer is in it to make money.
Regarding a legal challenge, I can’t see any basis for it (although I’m not a lawyer myself). Hence, I can’t see how it would threaten the developer, especially since he already has first-class legal counsel. If there were something like an environmental issue involved, it might be a different story. But Union Township has the clear right to promulgate its own zoning regulations, and the developer is working within those regulations for this project, seeking only modest variances.
I believe the court of public opinion would be a better approach for this matter, although I wouldn’t want to leave the impression that I’m wildly optimistic. In the public hearing so far, members of the Union planning board have been openly concerned about traffic congestion and clearly skeptical of the efficacy of the developers proposed remedies. The residents of the Vaux Hall neighborhood are bitterly opposed to this project,as you would expect, and have made their feelings known to the board. And, as I mentioned earlier, Millburn has requested additional traffic studies. Whether any of this will sway the final outcome, I don’t know. But I suspect it’s our best shot.
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steel
Citizen
Username: Steel
Post Number: 859
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:11 am: | |
This reminds me of the old Yogi Berra line; "Nobody goes to that place anymore, -it's too crowded".
Traffic will sooooo suck. -And let's not forget that the Expo will also be converted to something "more popular". (I'm personally hoping for a pole-dancing palace plaza with poker-playing side tables).
Perhaps it will increase foot traffic on Springfield as everybody may as well get out of their cars and walk.
On the potential bright side, I wonder if Union's small business leaders still have an influence in killing this in consideration of how it could hurt Union's "downtown" shopping. |
Tom Carlson
Citizen
Username: Tomcarlson
Post Number: 101
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:17 am: | |
Bob K,
DOT still retains control over traffic flow along Route 124, a.k.a. Springfield Avenue, in Union. Unfortunately, DOT takes a very narrow approach to roadway improvements required for new commercial development. Indeed, for this project, the developer has touted their compliance with DOT minimum guidelines.
One of the approaches being taken by opponents of the project is to try and convince the Union planning board to seek additional traffic studies and roadway improvements beyond DOT’s minimum requirements.
Jonathan,
The developer claims to have inquired about a dedicated entrance from I-78, but that DOT disapproved. I don't know any more than that, but I intend to try to educate myself a bit about how new freeway exits get created and DOT's role in the process.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 9763
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:29 am: | |
Since there is an exit at Vaux Hall Road and another maybe a mile west on Springfield Avenue my personal guess is a dedicated exit is a non-starter.
I would suggest that both the Millburn and Maplewood Township Committees try to put pressure on the state DOT via our representatives in Trenton. Also, we should probably go with a zero tolerance approach for traffic violations on SA. I doubt, given the traffic, speeding will be an issue, but running red lights, spill over at intersections, etc. should be controlled. |
bill671
Citizen
Username: Bill671
Post Number: 156
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:35 pm: | |
I spent a lot of years driving Maplewood ambulances. I'm thinking about trips to Overlook - main route from a lot of areas is down Springfield into Vaux Hall. It was never easy because the cars in traffic couldn't yield if they wanted to - if they were stopped in traffic, there was no where for them to pull over to. Valley Street wasn't that much better an option. Now if you can't get through with lights and sirens.............
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 10868
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:41 pm: | |
Tom Carlson shows why sprawl in NJ progresses the way it does.
I moved out of Edison and found traffic was better here, even though population is denser. Now I guess it will get Edisonian here soon, and it's called progress.
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Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 7960
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:50 pm: | |
Why is Edison called Edison and not West Orange, where Edison worked? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 9767
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 1:32 pm: | |
I seem to recall that Edison had a facility in what is now Edison as well.
Tom, interesting about Edison. I had a co-worker
who moved there in the mid-1980s and lived there for about five years. In that period the travel time from her condo to the train station increased from 15 minutes to over 30 minutes because of the development. A lot of this was due to building shopping centers along two lane streets/roads, much as what is being done in Union along Springfield Avenue/Route 124. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 10869
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 2:18 pm: | |
Right, the town now known as Edison had his first lab there. That's where he spent most of his growing-up years.
The funny thing is, the traffic patterns with NJ barriers and jug handles on local roads works well on paper but doesn't make for decent living, in my opinion. And now it's coming to us. Or rather, it's coming to our neighboring town.
steel's suggestion that people will get out and walk is a fantasy. Walking is a fate worse than death to many Jerzoids.
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sk8mom
Citizen
Username: Sk8mom
Post Number: 374
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 10:40 am: | |
I do love Target, but a gay roller disco is the best development idea I've heard in a long time. I would be a regular. Additionally, people who take themselves too seriously could be sentenced to skate there on consecutive weekend nights.
Perhaps a portion of the parking lot could be cordoned off with tiki lights? |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 196
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 7:27 am: | |
Get a Costco, not BJ's! |
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