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Message |
    
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 611
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 5:49 pm: | 
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Two points, as I understand them. Please correct me if I am wrong.
1. Since CDBG is federally funded, it still has tax dollars as its source. So, while they are not SO tax dollars, they are coming from every taxpayers pocket. It is not "free" as some have implied.
2. Bond money, as I understand it, is essentially a loan that must be repaid plus interest. All of it will be paid back using taxpayer dollars over time. So, it too is not "free" money.
So, if the CDBG money is used for SOPAC, all US taxpayers contributed that $250,000. Nice, b/c it is less per SO taxpayer. Yay.
However, the $250,000 in bond money being taken from SOPAC, that was going to be used for SOPAC and is now going to be used for the Sculpture, most certainly does represent SO tax dollars - plus interest! NOT yay. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 74
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 6:23 pm: |
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patjoyce,
How dare I ask about your 1:46 pm entry? What measure has a small leafy town, its ransomed spirit or faltering hopes ? Your mirror is dark. I would not view it. Despite your speaking of heart and mind.
Rastro(or any), we also need records of the following:
1) the date or dates of any federal grant application(s) for any money that found its way directly or indirectly to Tau;
2) the date(s) of the formal BOT meeting(s) prior to the application(s) being filed at which they discussed each grant application;
3) the attendance records for these meetings;
4) minutes or transcripts of each and every one of these meetings;
5) official explanations from the feds stating why the Irvington Ave CDBG grant was rescinded; whatever conditions were cited for the repeal should be compared to the area benefitting from the SOPAC/TAU federal grant(s)
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2562
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 9, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
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Actually, all I care about is what they told the Feds they would use the money for. If it is something other than Tau, they pulled a Tom Delay. |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3581
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:13 am: |
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Let's see which one of you self-righteous opportunists takes the initiative to nail Bill, Alan, Art, Tony's sister, or whomever else, by actually reporting your furious accusations of malfeasance to the Feds, the State, the County, or whomever, then accepting the credit when the investigation is under way...
You all seem to have time to endlessly carp and toss inuendo back&forth here on MOL. How about making your voice heard at a BOT or Planning Committee meeting, asking questions and putting your favorite municipal villain's feet to the fire when they're cornered in a room with TV cameras?
Otherwise you're all a bunch of drugstore cowboys.
-s.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2566
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 10:34 am: |
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Soda, I have not accused anyone of anything. I simply said that if X occurred, then it does not seem to be legal. Do you disagree that if HUD disbursed funds expecting it to be spent on one thing, and it is spent on another, then that is improper use of the funds? I've asked if anyone know what the original grant application said. I've submitted an FOIA request. I'll probably submit an OPRA request.
No one accused Tony's sister of anything.
Self-righteous? I'm reminded of line about a pot and a kettle... how does that go again? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 76
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
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Sorry, Soda. Most won't oil your squeaky wheel. |
patjoyce
Citizen
Username: Patjoyce
Post Number: 101
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:07 pm: |
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Sorising - I've racked my brain for the allusion, but don't get it.
Patrick |
Sigmund Freud
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 339
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:29 pm: |
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In due time, you'll understand. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 77
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:29 pm: |
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"A squeaky wheel is the one that gets oiled," (depriving others of care and resources).
In common usage, it is an adage closely related to, "the person who yells the loudest may create a diversion," and the observation among animal behaviorists that fierce breastbeating may actually intimidate - among gorillas, anyway.
Soda is fiercely squeaking and beating his breast to deter people from following the money of Tau's funding.
But we've all seen it before, the proverbial hollow man, and won't be mislead.
(Does that help?) |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 78
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:31 pm: |
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(misled not mislead) |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3504
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 2:37 pm: |
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Yeah, Soda could watch the whole BOT hauled away in shackles and he would still retain his head planted firmly in the sand and believe some of the choice nuggets from Calabrese that "Redevelopment is done", "God wanted Bill to win the election" and "South Orange is like a bunch of spoiled children on Xmas who have everything and want more" |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 123
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:37 pm: |
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I have lived here long enough (approx 30 years) to see federal money repave all the sidewalks of South Orange and Maplewood BEFORE we ripped them up to install the new multi-million dollar street scapes. We used federal money to make the park by the former THD, then our village totally re-did it again, twice. Who was watching our federal money? Shouldn't the feds have demanded a refund from us? I am disgusted with the way all of our governments (local, county, state, fed) are wasting money with duplicative spending, for example. In the above discussion, we are looking from the bottom up. We should also look from the top down. It appears that "federal grants" are part of the pork barrel scheme of things. For example, "bricks." In Golden, Colorado they have the same "brick" paver sidewalks we do. In fact, everywhere the grants are written, the same project is done. Who makes the profit on all the bricks? What about the role of the "grant people" who make commissions on these grants?
Always remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Sure, maybe the bricks were free, but who paid for the labor? We have a person who writes our grants. If you are interested in Tau, how about looking closer at some of the hundreds of other "grants." Once you understand "grants" you will have gained a true insight into the machinations of government. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4290
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 9:49 pm: |
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SODA-
At a recent BOT Meeting someone did try to get answers. For the most part he was treated rudely and given the runaround. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 456
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 6:52 am: |
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Elaine-
You're right on target. Take Spiotta Park. I actually thought it was nicer before the re-do, and required much less maintenance. As to the grants, you raise an interesting point. Who is the person who writes up the applications for these grants? Is it Gross or someone else? |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 478
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 6:55 am: |
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It also has a buried gas tank that now needs to be removed. |
SO1969
Citizen
Username: Bklyn1969
Post Number: 226
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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Cross posted from New Market Timeline thread:
Eric
Nice "rhetorical" device. Susan1014 asks perfectly reasonable, but uncomfortable, questions of you and you re-direct.
Eric, I suggest you and the other Trustees take a moment and think about what you're doing on this sculpture. Pretend that the project is not the Tony Smith sculpture, but some other project the Village is funding (I realize this is a difficult leap of imagination, as most of what the village spends money on is a suitable use of public resources and the TS sculpture is not, but please try).
- You have an OPTIONAL Village project of very significant size - the equivalent in cost of TOTAL annual budget for Street Repair - but even that budget number is not firm
- You do not have established sources of initial funding and no sources of ongoing funding for ongoing maintenance (this imaginary project is expected to be a target for graffitti)
- The project will transform the physical appearance of the most prominent piece of real estate in town and yet the vast majority of residents have no idea the project is happening and those that do know, have not been shown a rendering of what the project will look like
YOU WOULD VOTE TO SPEND MONEY FOR SUCH A PROJECT?
The unfortunate answer for a number of trustees and the VP is that they repeatedly support such half-baked projects that inevitably leave us, the taxpayers, holding the bag.
Eric, I thought you were part of the solution.
This project is the sort of project that should be subject to a referendum. At bare minimum, I request again that a detailed budget and drawings in context be published in the Gaslight.
Eric, you're hiding behind the activism of the few. If you really cared about the view of most residents, you would support shedding maximum light on this project. The advocates of special interests never favor that approach, so I suspect you will not in this case.
I'm cross posting this in TS sculpture thread so no re-direct is needed. |
Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 305
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 1:16 pm: |
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Susan,
Please find my answer to your post above in the “No Timeline for Supermarket” thread.
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Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3594
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 2:03 pm: |
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So I guess I'll be seeing you all on TV soon, demanding answers from the BOT at the next mtg, eh?
BTW, The Rambling Wreck is wreally wrong again. I posted my voting choices at the last election, and will do so again for the next one (Bill won't be among 'em...).
Meanwhile, if SOrising, MHD, et al expect your posts here to have any direct effect on your Village's legislative agenda, you're even dumber than you claim Bill C. is.
Wanna follow the $$$ and flush out the evildoers? Go to it, with my blessings. Just recognize that you'll have to get out from behind your computers to do so.
-s. |
Lewisinsov
Citizen
Username: Lewisinsov
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 3:27 pm: |
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Looking at the proceedings of the BoT on 11/14/2005 (http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2005/11-14-05sm.pdf}, the CDBG grant was made solely for the purposes of repaying the bonds that were raised to fund SOPAC.
If the grant is being used for the sculpture, then it is being misapplied for two reasons:
1) It was intended to be used to repay debt.
2) That debt was to be incurred for SOPAC.
To spend the money on a sculpture is neither a debt repayment nor is it related to SOPAC. Note that the debt still has to be repaid.
If, on the other hand, the BoT want to argue that the grant was in fact applied to SOPAC and that the sculpture is being being funded by the proceeds of the bonds we still have the following problems:
1) The debt was not in fact repaid.
2) The bonds were used for purposes other than those approved at the time of their issuance.
Again, the debt still has to be repaid.
One way or another, the use of the funds for the sculpture is wrong. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3513
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 3:29 pm: |
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Precisely! |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3515
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 8:18 pm: |
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Speaking of "Trustee Meeting Agenda Questions" (the original thread), can someone please ensure the Conference Agenda agenda is posted for Monday's Meeting? |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 172
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
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Why don't we have the movers install the metallic reproduction in the parking lot, and declare it ...
TAUPAC!!!
jd |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3651
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 5:25 pm: |
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On the agenda for Monday's meeting, I see:
"Resolution Authorizing a Settlement in Map Enterprises, Inc. v. the Township of South Orange Village, et al."
Anyone know what this suit was and how much is the settlement for? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4463
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 9:29 pm: |
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Could this have something to do with it?
http://www.mapenterprises.biz/index.html - Provides e-commerce and web design, domain name registration, and site promotion. Located in Boston, Massachussets, United States. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3690
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 11:10 pm: |
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Looks like Monday's Meeting will be a WHOPPER:
1) Bond Ordinance Authorizing the Issuance of $1,921,850.00 Bonds
We better start paying attention to WHAT ELSE they are paying for with our tax dollars
2) An Ordinance to Amend the Code of the Township of South Orange Village to Provide for a Special Improvement District.
I thought a DRMC was agreed to & a SID was REJECTED several years ago - now it's baaaaaack????
3) Any further discussions that may arise on the Tony Smith Sculpture Funding Fiasco
I wonder if ANY of the people who signed the petition or posted so angrily over the issue will actually come and speak out |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4503
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:20 am: |
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MHD
Did you notice number 3 refers to the statue as the
"Tony Smith Sculpture Funding Fiasco"  |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3842
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 10:18 am: |
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http://www.southorange.org/agenda.asp?page=2006/04-10-06CA.htm
On Monday's Meeting Agenda:
12. Appointment Policy
A. General Board discussion.
I thought the Policy was to simply appoint a crony of Calabrese. It'll be interesting to see what the "official policy" will be.
14. Real Estate Attorney
A. General Board discussion.
I thought the Policy was to use Ed Matthews for everything, since he's done such a tremendous job of saving the taxpayers so much money with the Contracts he agrees to.  It'll be interesting to see where this discussion goes after the last outburst by Ed Matthews at the last meeting
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SO1969
Citizen
Username: Bklyn1969
Post Number: 265
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 1:53 pm: |
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re: Ed Matthews
As a newbie, I don't know his history. I thought I saw that he is a former BOT member.
Any info on his law practice prior to his current position?
He seems to have done a remarkably bad job (Beifus, Tau, Scotland & Ralston house give away $1 to $900K in a few short years - was there a family connection there?, many others).
Just wondering what his "qualifications" were other than being a local politico. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3846
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 2:42 pm: |
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Here's some more "must see TV" with Edwin Matthews outburst at the last BOT Meeting: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vkjqWVVQBUI |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 394
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 2:58 pm: |
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One word ... holy cow.
I didn't have a chance to watch the meeting yet ... unbelievable. Nothing like having a Village attorney who stays cool under pressure. |
Agrackle
Citizen
Username: Agrackle
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 3:07 pm: |
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Too bad he doesn't stick up for the town's interests as vehemently as he does for his own.
And it's also nice to know that he's never made any mistakes, he and George W. Bush have something in common. |
Erin Cartman
Citizen
Username: Carnac
Post Number: 48
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 2:34 am: |
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Actually Agrackle, that is not correct. MR Matthews clearly says "I have made mistakes but, I have never cost the Village millions of dollars."
I think MR. M. lost his cool but, I believe his point was valid. Eric was impling that MR. M. had cost us millions. Eric would have been better off defending his statement with facts rather than backing down. If you are going to make a statment like that stick to it and follow it out to its conclusion. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 277
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 10:09 am: |
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Erin, I think you should watch the video of the meeting carefully. DeVaris did not say what Matthews thought and claimed he did. Matthews blew up at him in anticipation of something he thought DeVaris was saying, but did not.
Among other things, it reveals bad judgement, an inability to listen to what is actually stated rather than what you imagine is being stated and then having an extreme, not to mention uncivil, reaction to the imaginary event. The intemperance alone is not a good quality in an attorney, even if it is true that Mr. Matthews did not cost the village millions.
It seems to me that a village counsel is a kind of jack of all trades. In this age of increasing specialization, he should not resist but welcome all the additional legal assistance the town is willing to pay for. There is more about this under the thread on village legal counsel.
Matthews was not the only one who displayed such injudicious behavior. Terrianne Moore-Abrams was worse. She exploded before DeVaris could barely open his mouth.
Neither of these people should have acted as they did. They interferred with the official business of the town in highly obstructionist ways. It does not help the town that one of them did so, let alone two. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1488
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 10:42 am: |
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What SORising said...it was an amazing response on Matthews' part. If my daughter responded to someone that way, she'd be sent to her room. Terrianne too.
But the crowning touch was when Mr. Matthews, after defending himself, attacked an attorney formerly in city employ (Hartwyck?) for being the one who actually cost the Village millions. To throw a tantrum at a perceived attack and then attack someone else is a lovely combination.
Unfortunately, given the behavior of some of our trustees, BOT meetings are becoming far more colorful television than they ought to be. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 664
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 10:48 am: |
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SOrising - AGREE! I think we have some weird ESP thing going on.
Let me tell ya - I missed that meeting so I watched it the following night on my laptop and when it got to that part with both Trustee Moore-Abrams and Mr. Matthews lashing out at Eric, I literally grabbed my purse (in my PJs) and got into my car and then realized it was 2am the next night (I forgot it wasn't live).
I could not BELIEVE what I was seeing. I was like "when did we become the British Parliament?" Eric raised some valid issues regarding a part-time real estate attorney with a legitimate rationale - our contracts and agreements need to be rock-solid. At no point, did he ever imply that someone did not do their job or could not do their job. Funny how the only thing Trustee Moore-Abrams could comment on the entire meeting was yelling at Eric. I guess she was too behind on all the other things going on...
That meeting was a disgrace and what was even worse was that the VP didn't not bang his gavel and call orders of the day and keep things under control. |
Bill C. Grant, BS
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 384
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 2:46 pm: |
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During the Feb 27 meeting he never spoke to correct the BoT who were in fly over pattern to misdirect underlying facts that the gang of three and members who spoke knew well enough that they felt necessary to miscommunicate the record for political gain. Mr Peanut head was leading the fly over so there was nothing for the other two to do. Wrong.. if you Mr. Matthews had any morals you would have spoken to the record. It is easy to see that for ten years of service you, Mr. Matthews, have contributed plenty in the inadequacy of representation of the village's interest, and that at every occassion you do submit to the vpres or vadmin in lies ...... that will be your legacy, shortly!!!! |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4657
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 3:04 am: |
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If Eric is so concerned about the amount of money mistakes can cost the Village, why doesn't he stop the Tau mistake? At least Mr Matthews admitted he could have made mistakes in the past and he apologized for them.
BTW Why hasn't Eric answered SO1969's post from Sunday, March 12, 2006 - 11:35 am? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4658
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 3:15 am: |
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BTW
I had to rewatch the video after reading the rest of this thread. I heard Bill say something to the effect of someone should just apologize. Poor Mark looked like he wanted to crawl under the table. I actually felt bad for Mr Matthews. I got the impression Eric might have implied Mr Matthews made mistakes. Maybe Mr Matthews will be mad enough to spill the beans about Bill and his supposed projects with Syaid. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3858
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
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Video from last night (April 10) is now posted: http://www.southorange.org/videoViewer.asp
The discussion about the "Real Estate Attorney" was conveniently removed from the agenda at Calabrese's request when he knew he would not be at the Meeting. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 280
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 12:33 pm: |
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Why was the VP not at the meeting last night? |
vermontgolfer
Supporter
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 403
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 - 3:00 pm: |
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Not sure, but think he is away, since school is out.
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