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Message |
    
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 11:00 am: | 
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Can anyone explain why South Orange had over $2.3 million of debt service in 2005 and is projected to have over $3.2 million in debt service for 2006? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4162
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Easy answer. Because the BOT likes to spend a quarter of a million dollars on things like that statue.
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MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3434
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 11:06 am: |
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Real easy answer:
 |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1476
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 11:16 am: |
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O.K. Let's get serious please. Our debt service is increasing $950,000 this year. This alone will increase the municipal budget by 6%, which is in addition to any other increases. What's the explantation? |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 123
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 1:11 pm: |
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See 11:06 am post.
Ask trustuslesstees.
jd |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 8797
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 1:16 pm: |
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We need to write a prescription for a more generic government. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1478
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 1:22 pm: |
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jd- It's useless asking the trustuslesstees.
My guess is that someone (?) was planning on the Beifus and New Market projects to be up by now and paying pilots. The debt was stuctured so that it could be paid with the pilot revenue. It's like spending against a planned inheritance. Or more like spending against a hoped for lottery win. Just my guess. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 124
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
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When is the next trustee election?
jd |
dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 284
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 1:24 pm: |
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The answer to the question is 1) municipal debt service are often backloaded (increasing with time) for a town like SO, and (2) principal payments for bonded sites like the Shop Rite site are probably kicking in now. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1479
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 1:31 pm: |
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dgm - Does the fact that the Village took back a mortgage from the New Market developer for over $1million to be repaid as the lofts over the market are sold enter into the equation? I'm sure it doesn't help.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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So Spitz, if you are correct that SO has budgeted and spent money it does not have and, given that the sources for this fantasy money are in limbo with the BOT at their last meeting refusing to say when they would be completed, can't we expect the fantasy revenue part of SO's budget to grow as time drags on?
Can anyone who knows more about this project the increases to SO's debt service as we move forward? Is it fair to say that even the $3.2 million debt service for 2006 is likely to increase? Will annual increases for 2007 and beyond rise by 40-50% also?
dgm, what do mean that debt is often backloaded "for a town like SO"? What is it about SO that makes this so? Is it because SO has some kind of special arrangement or what? And by backloaded, do you mean it is compounded across time, or what?
Thanks for any explanations. |
dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 286
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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backloaded just means that principal payments are stacked towards the end of the debt amortization. Towns with limited resources generally do backload debt amortization with the idea that tax values and other revenues will grow over time as the projects funded by the bonds improve the local property tax revenue base (assuming it is not all tax abated away) |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 3242
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 1:30 pm: |
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Typically money is raised through bond anticipation notes in which only interest is paid for up to 5 years. At the end of the 5 year holding period, the note must be converted by issuing a bond. The bond issuance then calls for interest and principal payments. Spitz is correct in that this must relate to activity from 2001. I think Shop Rite is the cause of the increase. And to MHD's point, it's incredible that we are 5 years down the road and we're still dealing with property rights for construction.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 28
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 12:30 pm: |
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So, prior to the next elections for the BOT, what is the best way residents have to keep the current trustees and their administration from plunging South Orange deeper and deeper into debt? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2487
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:26 pm: |
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Show up at every BoT meeting and voice your concerns. Tell your neighbors that unless they do the same, things will not change. Corner BoT members who are not amenable to your position and engage them in a conversation about it. Do not fight with them. Do not argue. Discuss.
Even if you "know" what their position or agenda is, play dumb. Let them explain it, then explain your position. Be prepared to defend it, but again, not in an argumentative way.
Enlist other people in town to do the same. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3465
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:31 pm: |
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Rastro,
I agree with your theory, however, we now see that Dr. Rosen, Mr. Calabrese and Mr. Taylor will flat out LIE when questioned by the public.
(see video of Feb 27 BOT Meeting)
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2490
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:39 pm: |
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MHD, but if you know that they are lying, then you can confront them on it. A BoT meeting is not conducive to a discussion. And I doubt sicerely that anyone's mind is going to be changed by what they hear during remonstrations.
I haven't sen the 2/27 meeting video. I don't rmember hearing about anyone calling them on their alleged lie. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3466
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 1:55 pm: |
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Rastro,
The lie was not confirmed until Mark Rosner's post in the Tony Smith Sculpture thread earlier today. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2492
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 2:07 pm: |
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Saw that after reading this thread. Even better amunition to discuss this with them one on one. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4227
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:29 pm: |
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Rastro-
While for the most part I agree with you; I think it's better to not have one to one 'discussions' with some of the BOT members. If it's done at a meeting, then more then one person has heard the 'discussion.' It would make it harder for anyone wanting to deny what they said. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2495
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:36 pm: |
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JTA, except that you cannot have discussions at BoT meetings. It is not set up for that.
Besides, we've seen that it is very easy to lie about what was said at a BoT meeting. Our esteemed VP has done it on more than one occasion. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4229
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:49 pm: |
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Rastro-
Okay. You have a point. I've only watched parts of a few meetings. I couldn't take watching them anymore. What can we do? I'm torn in some ways because we really do like Bill as a person. My mom and sister think MOL is 'dangerous' because I started telling them things they didn't want to believe. Now that they are actually seeing it for themselves, well they now regret voting for him in the last election.
Sad as it is, I think there are a lot of uninformed people in South Orange. You know none of this is going to get in the Snooze Wrecked. About the only way you learn about any of this is by reading MOL or hearing it from someone who does. How do we change this? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2498
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 4:10 pm: |
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Call them on it. Have the conversation in private, then ask them about it in public. Perhaps when you ask, you should have a small microcassette recorder plainly visible on the podium.  |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 149
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 4:55 pm: |
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Discuss it at Trustee meetings, during "remonstrances," where you can ask or tell them what you want.
Tell them.
Don't be afraid.
I tell them, and have never felt better.
Tell them, watch their faces, talk directly to the ones who try to ignore you, have fun.
jd |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 42
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 5:24 pm: |
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Rastro, we've seen today why one-on-one discussions with trustees and village employees don't work. Trustees Rosner and DeVaris in different threads at about the same time today said mutually exclusive things: one said there were no grants for the sculpture; the other said there was a block grant for it. The difference, in this case, amounted to a quarter of a million that the town can't seem to keep track of. Various other people said other things at the last BOT meeting when someone asked them all together. That was recorded, video and audio; a microcasette wasn't needed. They all say different and contradictory things. No one assumes any responsibility for resolving impossible contradictions, unless we hear more about this later.
The amazing thing to me is that trustees seem to be satisfied with not having any real answers from the town's administration. They don't hold the administration accountable even for basic facts in one simple project. What about more complex issues? Can we expect the town to be any more capable with them? I assume the more charitable explanation; the other is that they don't really care what they tell the public or whether what they say is true or not. Anything will do.
So Rastro, bulletin boards like this can serve a function that can't be served elsewhere. I hope to hear from you on it in the future, bearing all of these things in mind. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2501
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 11:12 pm: |
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But what have we ultimately learned? That there is confusion on the BoT? That's something new? That there are difffering levels of knowledge? Again, nothing new.
Will we get an answer about this? Who knows. I wonder if anyone will get up at the next meeting and ask. I don't mean accuse, I mean ask. Or maybe email Eric and Mark and ask them to clarify... |
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