| Author |
Message |
    
michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 167
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 3:48 pm: | 
|
I vote that Mr.Taylor and Mr.Rosen should step down.
Please add you vote! |
O'Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 8911
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
|
Wouldn't it be easier to ask them to change their minds? |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3573
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 3:53 pm: |
|
Michael's poll seems just as scientific as the people who "polled the community" about buying the sculpture. 
P.S. You forgot Calabrese |
michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 169
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 3:55 pm: |
|
add him to the list |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 610
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 4:59 pm: |
|
And what, in your opinion, has Art Taylor done that's so incredibly bad... please explain. |
Neen
Citizen
Username: Neen
Post Number: 221
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 5:12 pm: |
|
Why not start with Calabrese? |
Kibbegirl
Citizen
Username: Kibbegirl
Post Number: 436
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 5:23 pm: |
|
Sheena, it's not that Art has done anything terribly bad, but in some cases, being ineffective is just as bad as being "terribly bad". |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 14728
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 5:37 pm: |
|
I vote for them to step down. I am disgusted by this latest episode.
|
Stevef
Citizen
Username: Stevef
Post Number: 181
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 5:40 pm: |
|
They are irresponsible leaders.
How can they cast votes when they know nothing?
Pretending not to know is just as bad.
How can they face their neighbors?
How can they call themselves worthy?
Public apologies are required.
Then resignation. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 655
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 6:47 pm: |
|
Pretending not to know is WORSE - that's called LYING.
I'd be happy to forgo the apology and resignation if they'd simply
* publish all the details of the sculpture including honest reporting of all funding sources - so the taxpayers are unable to be as confused about what their tax dollars will fund as the trustees themselves claim to be - the details should be published in the Gaslight and on the Village Website, and should include background and expense info associated with the installation and now-planned-demolition of the gazebo and fountain within a 5-7 year period.
* take a survey/poll, similar to the one recently put forth in the Gaslight, asking for taxpayer input
* published the actual results of this survey and proceeded according to the wishes of the ACTUAL MAJORITY of South Orange residents! |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3575
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 7:08 pm: |
|
You might wonder, What can YOU do about this continued fiscal irresponsibility and lying to the public?
Here are some suggestions:
Write a Letter to the Editor of the Star Ledger:
Please e-mail to: eletters@starledger.com (letters to the editor) oped@starledger.com (op-ed articles).
Submissions may be mailed to: Editorial Department, The Star-Ledger, 1 Star-Ledger Plaza, Newark, NJ, 07102-1200.
Letters must not exceed 200 words. Op-ed articles must not exceed 800 words. All submissions must include the writer's name, address and phone number.
Write a Letter to the Editor of the News Record: editorial@thelocalsource.com
Must be submitted by 9am on Monday for printing in Thursday's edition and must include your real name and phone number
Write a Letter to the Board of Trustees:
ajosrosen@aol.com
arthur@mec.cuny.edu
mrosnernyc@yahoo.com
stacey.jennings@hp.com
nishesq@optonline.net
WCfuzzy@aol.com
edevaris@southorange.org
Attend the next BOT Meeting and SPEAK UP
Print and Distribute Copies of the Star Ledger Article http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/essex/index.ssf?/base/news-1/114240237272090.xml&c oll=1
Venting on MOL has NO impact. If you are tired of this behavior, DO SOMETHING |
C. U. Later
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 350
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 7:53 pm: |
|
Alligator  |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4382
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 10:58 pm: |
|
Bill too... |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1007
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 3:21 am: |
|
Sheena, one time Mr Taylor fell asleep in one of the meetings. I know sometimes they can be quite boring (maybe not recently), but the man ran for the office. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 573
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 3:26 am: |
|
mayor-go to bed |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 185
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 8:49 am: |
|
On-line is free, so is going to board meetings and telling them what is on your mind.
Try it, and don't stop after one effort.
jd |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 659
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 10:42 am: |
|
babysitters aren't free... |
Kristen Williamson
Citizen
Username: Kris219
Post Number: 188
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
|
Are there a lot of you who have a babysitting issue that holds you back from coming to the meetings?
I completely understand, but I'm willing to sacrifice a few bucks for the good of the town...maybe we can work something out?
|
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1418
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 10:56 am: |
|
Babysitting is part of it. So is wanting to be home for my daughter's bedtime most weeknights. I'm gone all day, so use weeknight babysitting very sparingly, mostly for the board on which I'm an officer.
Do I aspire to getting more involved? Yes, but right now my life is stretched to the max, and can allow for MOL during odd moments, and for watching BOT replays while paying the bills and doing leftover office paperwork late at night, but not for live meeting attendance. Sad but true.
I think those who call debate on MOL useless are only half right. Of course it would be better if we all went to BOT meetings and stated our cases. But MOL does serve a valuable education and debate function, and does help inform and energize at least a fraction of the electorate. (and lets the Star Ledger writers troll for story ideas!)
No, MOL is not enough. But those who say we should pack our keyboards away are missing some of the impact. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 113
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
|
Thank you for commenting on MOL, susan1014. It is a helpful vehicle for many. If the trustees are pro-active, they will make it their business to know what people think by checking in here. It needn't be the only source of commentary. Frankly, the requirement that people appear in person at the BOT meetings seems quaintly antiquated. It may not need to be eliminated, but trashing MOL is gravely mistaken.
Nevertheless, one reason to attend BOT meetings for those who can is to support those who get up there and take the reactionary beating from the VP and BOT they often do.
It is also true that wider audiences need to be reached and that people do need to use other means to communicate their thoughts. Everyone here knows this could be hazardous if peopole began to think the NR could be relied upon for good political reporting. It cannot. But it could still publish letters which might help things along.
So, use MOL, local papers, live BOT meetings, and other means of communication. Make sure you always know who controls the medium. |
Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 315
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 3:10 pm: |
|
Quote:Frankly, the requirement that people appear in person at the BOT meetings seems quaintly antiquated.
Right you are SOrising. Soon, between now and the end of April, those residents who cannot attend BoT meetings, will be able to phone-in during remonstrances and receive an instant response from the BoT.
This would make it easier for seniors, young parents, and couch potatoes to communicate their thoughts to the BoT.
This is one component of the Two Way Communications Program that the BoT approved a few weeks ago. The other components are the Neighborhood Meetings, already in progress, the Trustee office hours already in progress, and e-mail communications through either the Village website, or directly with each Trustee already in progress.
I hope residents will make good use of these new means of communications with the governing body.
The first Neighborhood Associations Meeting was attended by 110 residents. The next meting is scheduled for Wednesday April 19 at 7:30 pm. at the Baird Community Center. It will be preceded by the Trustees Office Hour at 6:30 pm. The following streets are invited to that meeting, although it is open to the entire community.
Zone 3 - Beechspring Rd, Brookside Rd, Forest Rd, Franklin Pl, Franklin Ter, Glenside Rd, Harmon Rd, Hart Dr North, Hart Dr South, Highland Rd, Luddington Rd, Mayhew Ct, Mayhew Dr, Melrose Pl, Overhill Rd,(east of Harding Dr), Ravine Rd, Redmond Rd, Ridgewood Rd North, Tillou Rd, Twin Oak Rd, Village Green Court, Walnut Ct, Wyoming Av
Zone 4 - Centre St, Elm Ct, Fielding Ct, Finlay Pl, Hall Ct, Hamilton Rd, Hartford Ct, Hartford Rd, Holland Rd, Kenmore Av, Kingman Rd, Lackawanna Pl, Marion Av, Marshall Ct, Montrose Av. (east of Grove Rd), Mosswood Av, Park Pl, Patricia Ct, Self Pl, Stanley Rd, Stirling Av, University Ct, Warren Ct, Warwick Av.
|
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3628
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 4:06 pm: |
|
Yes, Eric. Phone-ins and emails will be a big advance, and I hope MOL posters will be in the vanguard of early adopters.
-s. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3581
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 4:53 pm: |
|
While additional channels of communication SOUND like a great idea, I hate to be such a cynic (even though I'm very good at it), but I imagine that phoned-in questions for recent meetings would have sounded something like this:
---
Caller: Thanks for taking my call. I was wondering if you could explain where the money for the Tony Smith Sculpture is coming from?
BOT: Sure..it is coming from a grant. The money is coming from a grant. There is a grant to pay for this. There won't be any taxpayer money being spent. I make no apologies for using a grant for this project. It is definitely a grant. We received a grant and are using it for this grant-ed project. Thanks for calling.
---
Caller: I thought the grant could only be used for SOPAC.
BOT: We just CLEARLY TOLD the previous caller - the money is coming from a "Bond". Please pay attention Thanks for Calling.
---
Caller: I was wondering if you could explain why it is not a Conflict of Interest to appoint Mary Theroux to the Parking Authority?
BOT: She was a good Trustee and decided not to run for re-election on her own, so obviously there is no conflict. Thanks for calling.
----
Caller: Can you please explain why Bill Calabrese recused himself from a discussion of Sayid's rug store and abstained from voting on the Beifus site for "personal reasons"?
BOT: What really is a Conflict of Interest? Isn't life just one big conflict between life and death? Thanks for calling.
----
Caller: Can you please do something about the pace of the Beifus, Shop Rite and Rug Store projects?
BOT: Over the past 8 years, housing prices have skyrocketed BECAUSE these projects have remained dormant and we want to see this trend continue. Thanks for calling.
---
I hope I am wrong. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 144
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 1:46 pm: |
|
I have often watched remonstrances at BOT meetings with sadness. There are real differences that fail to get clearly communicated. This creates a snowball effect of compounded misunderstandings and tempers flare, on all sides. A more orderly means of questions and answers between trustees and people at the podium needs to be implemented. Perhaps a third party moderator might help, on occasion. People often misunderstand each other to no productive or satisfying result. If one questioner at the podium asks questions, trustees should repond in order, one by one, whenever they do respond. They should not interrupt each other or the questioner at the podium. The same applies for village staff.
Situations in which the trustees simply do not know the answer or are unable to express it, as happened when they were asked about funding for the TS sculpture, are intrinsically difficult. But having procedures designed to protect everyone from unnecessary miscommunication in place might help even these most difficult situations.
The relation between the trustees and the village administrator often seems very dysfunctional. In asking the administrator for information they may need at times, trustees often seem to forget that it is also their responsibility as trustees to know the facts and truth of a particular issue and then be able to explain it to the public. Trustees seem to confuse the administrator as a source of informational detail with their own duties to advise, inform and communicate with the public. They cannot discharge this duty by directing the public always to ask village employees.
This is especially true if the trustees have not yet made decisions village employees need to answer some questions. But I think the whole topic of trustees interfacing with the public as elected representatives needs to be clarified. It is too simplistic for them to say "ask the village." In important respects, they are the village. If the village administrator errs by assuming more authority than he should, it may often be because the BOT has not exercised the authority and reponsibilities it should, which leaves staff in an operational vacuum. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3636
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
|
Quote:the trustees simply do not know the answer or are unable to express it
You don't HONESTLY believe that, do you? When people state something at least EIGHT times in the course of 20 minutes without being corrected, it's real hard to later say "oops". |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 3357
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 2:21 pm: |
|
Quote:If the village administrator errs by assuming more authority than he should, it may often be because the BOT has not exercised the authority and reponsibilities it should, which leaves staff in an operational vacuum.
I agree with this statement.... |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 145
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
|
I don't know what to believe, MHD, except that what the trustees did in funding the sculpture was wrong. For whatever reason, regardless of motive, they were wrong from a standpoint of strict accountability. Yes, it is possible they lied. Yes, it is possible they were outrageously negligent and inept. I think they were horribly irresponsible in either case, whether they knew the truth and lied about it, or whether they just never bothered to find out what the truth was or is. We still don't know the full story, so it is difficult to know confidently about intention until we do, if even then. It is at least conceivable that they could have told Mr. Goldberg false information 50 times and just not cared whether it was accurate or not. The intentionality of this kind of act is different than the intentionality of a case in which they knew what they were telling MG was clearly false because they had absolute knowledge that the truth was something else and they said otherwise. In what actually happened, it is not necessary to know their intentionality to know that they acted wrongly. I agree with you that it is important to think about their individual intentions in deciding degrees of offense, in a sense. But however worse it may be if they lied, their lying is not necessarily to adjudge them clearly wrong.
Often it is best, in the long run, to assume a principle of charity in arguments, in which you impute to your opponent the best possible intention or interpretation of his/her actions and statements you can. If even that most charitable view of their position indicates they are wrong, then you at least have allowed for possible mistakes in your own perceptions and judgement, and they are more probably wrong than if you had not been guided by this principle of charity. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3113
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
|
Perhaps someone with more time could find out a bit more about a recall - do we need a separate petition for each person we'd like to recall? How much do special elections cost? Can we tag a special town election onto the Nov. elections? Are there enough unhappy people to step up and circulate the petitions?
Here's the basic rules:
Recall may not commence during first year in office.
No specific grounds are required
Time for gathering signatures is 160 days.
Signature requirement is number equal to 25% of the registered voters of the district
|
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3645
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
|
All we need now is to find 2000 disgruntled registered voters (which happens to be more people than voted in the last election)  |
Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 3216
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:21 pm: |
|
Hand me a pen! |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3115
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:23 pm: |
|
I think a door to door campaign would net more than 2000. Who could be happy with the state of the village? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 148
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:32 pm: |
|
How many people take various trains in the morning? A significant percentage of the 2000 could be gotten there, I imagine. The remainder around town and in neighborhoods. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 7:48 am: |
|
SoOrLady, I agree with you. How about a mail drop? I for one hate it when I have someone at my door trying to fry my brain with information...I know other people are happy to be approached this way but we need to appeal to all types. What if there was a general form that we could download and copy giving all the information and why this course of action is being sought, get friends (we all have them) in the area, divvy up the streets and put one in each mail box stating that we will come back on a certain date to pick them up, surely the required amount of signatures could be captured. If people in general have to make an effort, such as visiting the village hall, or mailing a form etc, you are less lightly to get the masses to act. Take the effort away from them, make this easy, and hopefully they will leave the signed form back in the mail box for pickup. This is for the good of the village and ALL residents. It might take a while to achieve, but with coordination, surely the town can be covered. Yesterday was the first time I really sat down at read the posts on MOL. It provoked me so much that this is my 3rd post! The maddening thing for me is that I am seeing so many intelligent postings from people who clearly CARE about this town, WHY are the powers that be ignoring them? I have to be wrong - I haven't really gone into the whys and wherefors as to how our town is the way it is, and I need to do that, but surely I can't be 100% wrong. Another thought, could a form be put in the gaslight or is that frowned on? |
IMHO
Citizen
Username: Imho
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 8:44 am: |
|
SOparents (etal)
I've been reading this board silently for about two weeks, and I feel like I just woke up. I'm a long-time resident, but like everybody else busy with kids and job. I think I just got used to living with the mess of downtown and the promise of a grocery store, parking....you name it. I've been setting myself on "autopilot" going to SO only for the bagels, pastries and occasional dinners out. SO...when I woke up and realized that it's been 15 YEARS of total incompetence...well, I've got to do something. Recall, petition, polls; great, but too high-tech for me. I'm just going to pick up the phone--TODAY--and call 5 people I know who live in the town, and have kids. I'm simply going to tell them to go on-line. Hey, it's a start. |
Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 3223
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 8:48 am: |
|
A wake up call is great but if we want something with teeth a recall is the answer! |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 8:54 am: |
|
IMHO -
You are right, it just takes a few calls, and the people you call to make a few calls etc etc. I am going to do the same. I am losing 8 friends in the next two months, 7 are due to job relocations and each one says they are GLAD to be moving out of SO. The other one is moving BECAUSE they want to get out of SO! I'm not going anywhere. I happen to have faith in this town, and I believe after reading these posts, that if enough of the people who attest to have drive and vision, actually put a bit of effort into this town, we can have a total turn around in a few years. I am probably naive, and someone is probably going to point that out to me, but I will say to them that I still believe we can change our town for the good. |
JoRo
Citizen
Username: Autojoe51
Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
|
The town could turn around in a year, not a few. I've seen stores and restaurants go up in weeks in other places. Some, it seemed, went up over a weekend. Where there is a will for development, there is a way. The positive news, if there is any, is that the village hasn't yet been turned into a Disney version of a quaint village or a nasty strip mall (knock wood). One look at what's happened in Brooklyn or Bethlehem or Wicker Park or downtown Denver proves what good can be done with beaten-down and broken neighborhoods and structures. There are many people in town who are dissatisfied with the pace and quality of growth. Invite your friends to a Trustee meeting. Show up and be heard. Compel action -- and if no action is taken, move them out of office with your vote. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3116
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
|
JoRo is right. After getting some additional info on recalls like cost: $25,000 and timing: about 5 months, it would seem more effective for us to put our energies into making the citizenry aware of the issues - most particulary the partnership of Calabrese and Sayid; using our voices at town meetings; and finding dynamic, qualified people to run in the next election. If voter apathy continues - the status quo will remain. Move your friends and neighbors to action - it's never too early to start a campaign to Save South Orange in 2007! |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 12
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:14 am: |
|
When is the next meeting as you can count on me attending... |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1580
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
|
SOL - Wow. You've always impressed me as one the most reasonable and nicest people on this board, who tries to say positve things most of the time. I think the fact that you're so upset says a lot. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3647
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
|
Monday night at 8pm in Village Hall.
If you have never attended, I urge you to watch portions of prior meetings online at http://www.southorange.org/videoViewer.asp first, so you can be prepared for what to expect.
The remonstrances from March 13, 2006 are a good place to start. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 14
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 1:38 pm: |
|
I am sorry, I tried to stay the distance - I have just watched 2 hours, zero minutes and 38 seconds of the March 13th meeting - I needed a coffee.....
How does anything ever get achieved? Does anything against the BOT wishes ever get achieved? I will say that the lady who spoke from Seton Hall comes across very well as a public speaker.. One point I did take in was that a cross section of people in town were asked their opinion on the statue/monument, including people in my area. This morning I have just spoken to 15 friends in my area - we must all have been out that day... I think I must have been looking at the state of our road which is badly in need of repair - perhaps we can take some of the concrete/cement being paid for out of our (my) taxes and plop it into the big holes and cracks and gouges etc in my street?? Can I?? |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3118
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 1:58 pm: |
|
wow.. thanks Spitz. What upsets me the most is voter apathy. How can people not care about who is making decisions for their town? How can they not care that our town attorney has been negligent, yet keeps his position? How can they not care that the Village President is in partnership with a businessman who owns 10+ parcels of land in the village? How can they not care that Beifus has been given extension upon extension with no results? Any other township would have taken the land years ago.. but Beifus gets a pass time after time. How can the truth be out there and so few people have the ears to listen or the heart to care? The only way for South Orange to move forward is to vote Calabrese & Co out of office in the next election. They have had more than enough time to realize their "vision". |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 2:10 pm: |
|
SoOrLady
I care. I am new at this forum. 12 out of my 14 lifetime postings have been since 5pm yesterday, the other two were to sell furniture... I don't know historically how things got so bad, but I do care passionately that it not be allowed to continue. I endured a couple of hours of a video taped meeting. I am confused.. How can "someone" say they excuse themselves from a vote due to conflict of interest, yet still be allowed to enter into the discussions which in effect can sway other voters? It seems almost like proxy voting.... |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3119
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 2:32 pm: |
|
If our attorney was diligent (clearly he is not), he would insist that the person recuse himself from the conversations as well as the vote. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 2:33 pm: |
|
Exactly.
|
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2654
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 2:54 pm: |
|
I think Calabrese was stupid (yes, I do mean stupid) to say that he had a potential conflict in the first place as an excuse for not voting. Just abstain or vote. Giving a half-assed reason for it just made things worse. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 18
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 3:03 pm: |
|
Yes, because it draws attention to the issue, but the real point is why ANYONE with even a sniff of a conflict of interest would be allowed into a meeting, to put their POV forward/influence others, or even to hear what is being said and have the potential to hand it on to interested parties.... Nothing is black and white, but where there is a grey area, the higher ground should always be taken to avoid situations just like this.. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2655
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 3:14 pm: |
|
Absolutely. The whole point of a conflict of interest is the APPEARANCE of impropriety. it is perfectly possible to be objective in voting for or against a particular project, even if you would be financial impacted (sorry, mwoodwalk) by it. But the fact that we can never really know is why conflict of interest rules are in place. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 3:23 pm: |
|
I concur, which is why, to ensure an ethical and impartial conduction of business for and on behalf of the residents of our town, where a bloodhound with a severe cold could sniff out a potential conflict, whether it be a real conflict or not, the person/people involved should NOT be in attendance or be allowed to vote. This is the only way to ensure fairness and following the letter of the law(?) |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1587
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 3:44 pm: |
|
Soparents - South Orange Lady is absolutely correct. The main problem in SO has been apathy on the part of the residents and voters.
One thing that SOL does not mention is the taxes. There used to be another poster, Woodstock, who thought that he and I were the only ones in town who cared about the taxes. As a matter of fact, he moved solely for that reason. I do think that the people in SO do have a considerable amount of apathy with regard to taxes. It is for this reason that the Village President, year after year, can say people are happy to pay the taxes because of the high level of services they receive.
You will never hear the Village President say that we can't afford something. He likes to say "it takes money to make money." He's been able to get away with this for years because not enough people have objected. I call it the "South Orange gene."
Welcome to the board.
|
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3650
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 3:50 pm: |
|
In South Orange, the "enforcement" of Conflicts of Interest is completely inconsistent and arbitrary:
Calabrese ACTIVELY participated in ALL discussions pertaining to the development of the Quarry UNTIL Patrick Joyce (who was a vocal opponent) was elected. Calabrese's house overlooks the quarry & is well within the 200 foot limit.
Calabrese ACTIVELY participated in the latest Planning Board Meeting for Beifus, but at the end he "abstained" for "personal reasons". We later find out he has a business interest in a property within 200 feet of Beifus.
Calabrese ACTIVELY participated in discussions regarding Sayid until last Fall, when it was revealed he has been in discussions about business dealings with him. In the meantime, Calabrese continues to provide "updates" (or lack thereof) on the project.
Calabrese has participated in discussions pertaining to redevelopment, DRMC, and SID over the years even though he owns a business (and a building?) downtown.
Trustee DeVaris also owns a property within 200 feet of Beifus and SOMETIMES he is asked to leave the room & other times he is not asked.
We are repeatedly told the people with a conflict must leave the room so we "can't be sued". However their is NO consistency about enforcing this.
Perhaps if we had a qualifed and impartial Village Attorney, we wouldn't have to be afraid of being sued. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 3:54 pm: |
|
Thank you for your welcome Spitz,
Apathy is a disease - it spreads. Maybe (hopefully) if enough people feel the way that I do, and now have the will/want to do something, we can stamp the apathy out. Taxes? hmm, if I get what I pay for then I never have cause to complain, but I do not know of ONE person who is happy with the taxes, I keep saying that I compare our town to a business, maybe not to physically make money, but to USE the money it gets wisely, and to prosper, to continue to grow UPWARDS, and to be an area that people want to flock to for quality of life, be it social life, or family life. We all maintain our homes, we even for heaven sake maintain the trees on our property, so how about going back to the roots of our town and maintaining the streets, and lighting, communal areas, bring the structure of our town into A1 shape, and THEN look at the cosmetic aspects, putting a coat of fresh paint on a peeling wall is just a cover up which in time will peel too. As far as people not paying their taxes... take the land where a building once stood as payment... |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page