| Author | Message | ||
     Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5186 Registered: 10-1999  |
Reading that article reminded me of an old movie - LOUIS: What in Heaven's name brought you to Casablanca? | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2005 |
Looks like Art Taylor, Allen Rosen and Bill Calabrese are going up the river. Will John Gross be Captain of the ship? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8886 Registered: 4-1997  |
I think this means the public was misinformed from day one and there never was authentic public input about the expenditure? | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1513 Registered: 3-2003 |
Allan Rosen is chair of the finance committee. This episode really doesn't give one a feeling of confidence that the finance committee (or BOT) is making solid financial decisions. | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 229 Registered: 7-2004 |
Congratulations are in order for Michael Goldberg. He brought in the quotes - even threatened to replay them from his laptop - and forced the trustees to admit that they misspoke, were wrong, whatever. I think it is apparent to all now - thanks to Michael's tenacity - that the Trustees knew (or should have known)what they were doing and those that represented that the monies for this project were somehow restricted grant monies to be used for this project alone were almost certainly lying (Taylor seemed sincere - also seemed horribly incompetent for not knowing, but did seem sincere). A resident summarized that the monies for the Tony Smith sculpture are, in effect, a tax increase because they are totally fungible and could replace other monies the Village is borrowing to spend on other projects (like SOPAC, village hall, library, etc). Trustee Jennings challenged the tax increase characterization. It was disturbing that Trustee Jennings didn't understand the logic of the resident's assertion. But she at least had the courage to recogize his remarks. What do the other trustees have to say for themselves? Mark, Eric? Both voted for a tax increase while a laundry list of needs goes unmet and the debt piles up. p.s. Now is the time to counter Eric Devaris's 20 letters to the editor in favor of the project. Respond to the Star Ledger article by writing your own Letter to the Editor. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8887 Registered: 4-1997 |
Everything we knew about the sculpture financing until now was based on lies from Calabrese, Taylor and Rosen at public meetings. The project needs to be postponed so authentic debate and public input can happen. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4327 Registered: 1-2004  |
Mc Cheesey- Well the student newspaper does mention at least one place in town where the students can get a great deal. Free pizza from I think 4-5pm and $1 drink specials. Considering most college students don't turn 21 until their senior year, or maybe the second half of the junior year, you might have a point about a bar that doesn't check id's. But, I think I remember a thread not to long ago discussing a bar that already does this. No it wasn't Bunny's)  I remember when I went to SH there was a pub on campus. Then again, the drinking age back then was 18. | ||
| Jim Murphy Citizen Username: Jimmurphy Post Number: 261 Registered: 5-2001 |
Why are we all treating this as a surprise? Mark Rosner told us about this "switch" last August and we debated this issue ad-infinitum in the "Should public funds be used for Art in South Orange" thread.
Are the supporters finally bailing off this sinking ship now that everyone is finally starting to understand where the money is coming from? | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4328 Registered: 1-2004 |
I must be missing something. Why is it so important for us to accept this 'gift' now? Why can't it wait until after PAC is built and we, the residents can vote on it? With the BOE election coming up it might not be easy to get letters printed in the Snooze Wrecked. Maybe we can all throw some money into the pot for a full page ad, have MHD write something up we can all put our names to. Or each of us can write a letter for the page. I can't imagine a page would cost more then $150. I'll even throw in the first $20. A better suggestion, I think someone might have already made, write the Ledger. We have to somehow get this information out there. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2676 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jim: Thanks for posting that. I had tried a quick search before I had started the new thread. I was just going to re-post the above. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3539 Registered: 5-2001  |
Maybe if Calabrese, Taylor & Rosen had read MOL, they wouldn't be "misinformed".  | ||
| Jim Murphy Citizen Username: Jimmurphy Post Number: 262 Registered: 5-2001 |
You're welcome Mark. For those who want to read further, the discussion is here: /discus/messages/3133/84938.html | ||
| Kaiser Wilhelm Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 344 Registered: 6-2005  |
The problem is that the BoT accepted the project and voted to go ahead with this public art acquisition irrespective of the disinformation and most current lies. If Mark knew the truth in August, don't you think Alan, Art and the emperor didn't know? It's the same old way of doing business in the village. The conflicted VP decides to satisfy an element of his constituency to the detriment of everyone else. But why? To be recognized favorably amoung this segment of his constituents for the sole purpose that one day they'll be a vocal minority group spearheaded to have the Arts Center named for him in tribute (barf). The all powerful one knows that the sleepy residents are uninformed, so let's not raise a fuss.....  It is demeaning to the informed residents to watch how they are now lying about lying....and the realization of this unyielding circle of lies that they propagate from week to week... | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2006 |
I agree the town owes Michael Goldberg enormous gratitude. During BOT meetings, the village president scarcely allows him and others to speak much of the time and hardly ever responds directly to direct and reasonable questions. One of many things that makes village hall look like an asylum is the claim at the last BOT meeting by the village administrator that residents should not ask trustees about their decisions, including if trustees know how their decisions are being paid for. If the public can't ask their elected representatives how and why they make the decisions they do, what good are the representatives? Perhaps it is a sign of Mr. Gross' remorse for his part in the confusion about the funding for the sculpture that he may have over reacted. But even if his judgement is impaired on this point, the public's should not be. They have every reason in the world to ask elected officials to account for their actions. If the trustees want Mr. Gross to be a scapegoat for their own mistakes, it only further impugns their actions. If Mr. Gross is the source of false information given to trustees, they should ensure that it doesn't happen again. But regardless of what Mr. Gross has done or has failed to do, it is entirely wrong for him to claim that the public should not ask its representatives for straight answers. (It also strikes me as unnecessarily disadvantaging himself, but that is another matter.) On more than one occasion, for more than one issue, what Mr. Goldberg has revealed about how the town doesn't work, happens repeatedly. You ask one or more trustees something and s/he doesn't know or contradicts another trustee. Then you ask town employees who may say something completely different from what trustees tell you. No one accepts responsibility for the fact that you simply cannot get the truth out of anyone because no one really seems to know. This pattern is so deeply ingrained in the BOT and village hall it is now endemic. Yet the attempt by anyone to make the "cloud of unknowing" on the part of any trustee legitimate, aside from being deeply mistaken, is also intolerable. | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 230 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jim and Mark Mark clearly did state this on MOL in August. Maybe that is part of why I've continued to rail against it since I learned of it. However, in a public meeting with the camera on and the other trustees present, when a citizen made the point that this was in effect a tax increase, Trustee Jennings disagreed with that characterization and Mark said nothing, as best as I can recall, in support of the citizen's assertion. It may be asking too much of Mark for him to explain to his fellow trustees the cause/effect relationships of their decisions, but somehow they need to understand them better or be removed from office. | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 143 Registered: 10-2005 |
Forget what Jenning says! She has no idea what is going on. It is very clear at least to me that Mr. Rosner is the only substance sitting on the board. I have said this before and I will say it again. The balance of the board are emotional decision makers not business people. And I know people are going to say that government is not a business but I say when you are spending the dollars that this board is in control of you must have business sense. And other than Mark I have seen none. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 93 Registered: 2-2006 |
Trustee Jennings should understand things better than she often seems to. In time and with diligence, she still may. Yet she does seem to have more courage than many other trustees, however, and in the current atmosphere, this is no small virtue, nor one to be discounted or taken for granted. Her courage might spread to others. I'm hoping it will. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 604 Registered: 4-2005  |
I think Trustee Jennings has been quite impressive thus far... she has exceeded my initial expectations to be frank. | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 146 Registered: 10-2005 |
COURAGE? What is this the wizard of OZ? I want trustees that do the job. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2598 Registered: 5-2004  |
Sheena, in what was has she impressed you? What has she done to exceed your expectations? I don't mean this to slam her, I'm really curious what actions she has taken that are worthy of praise. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3543 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey...you can't talk about Trustee Jennings here in this "chat room". This is a "chat room", right?  | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2006 |
One thing Trustee Jennings has done is to not be on a committee that influences financing for the schools since her husband is a middle school administrator. I admire her for this. She was asked about it at the last meeting of the BOT and answered quickly and clearly, unlike others who are asked about possible conflicts of interest. Her weakness seems to be to let her heart lead her when her head needs to. Because she likes many of her fellow trustees, she wants to defend them, even when they are wrong. But they need her to be independent in her judgement about their actions, even if she likes them personally. Her courage may enable her to do this, once she realizes she needs to. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 95 Registered: 2-2006 |
What did you say about that bee thing, MHD? Doesn't it qualify you as a techie? Not everyone is. | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 149 Registered: 10-2005 |
Sheena I would like to hear that answer also. How has she exceeded your expectations? How has she impressed you please be specific. I am very interested in your answer. Maybe I am wrong hear and have missed something. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2006 |
Michael Brant, our leaders are what they are. One important question is whether they can improve or not, learn or not, lead better than they have or not. It may be OZ now, but that doesn't mean even leaders won't awaken from their dream. Since they are your leaders, and you can't get rid of them now, would you rather have them amend their behavior than remain as they are between now and the next election? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3544 Registered: 5-2001 |
SORising, Look at the Green bar at the top of your screen right now. Mine says "Message Board". How about you?  Chat Room is here: http://www.maplewoodonline.com/chat/ | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 97 Registered: 2-2006 |
True enough, MHD. But don't we also chat here together? What claim does virtual reality have over real language? Nice chatting with you about this. (Just couldn't resist.) | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3546 Registered: 5-2001 |
LOL! BTW...did you hear there will be an almost $500,000 tax increase and the BOT lied about it? | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2005 |
I am very very concerned. This is what I see. 1) Tony Smith financial disaster. 2) SOPAC looking for money (a art center project opening as a movie theater first because there is not enough money to complete the project) 3) Beifus disaster 4) Super market disaster 5) Syiad plaza disaster 6) Millennium looking to bulldoze Valley st. 7) A gazebo covered in pigeon crap 8) a fountain I hear never worked 9) THD construction 10) 3rd st. gas station boarded up I hear we own that space. And if we are Oz where the hell is Emerald city...we certainty have the brainless scare crow and no sight of the wizard. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 479 Registered: 6-2005 |
As for Jennings, did she remove herself from the Board Of School Estimate Committee or was she called on it and then stepped down? I seem to remember her asking to be put on that committee when Calabrese handed out committee assignments at the initial reorganization meeting. Maybe someone can recall for certain. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2677 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jayjay: She is an alternate on the Board of Education Liason Committee (not sure when that meets or they ever have). That appointment was made at the same time the Board of school of estimate was discussed. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 98 Registered: 2-2006 |
Point taken, MHD. But of the SO bully boys under greatest suspicion, Trustee Jennings isn't among them. And she may just realize she needs to stay out of their tree house. MB, yes, I think multiple and ever larger disasters are just beginning to become evident. But wasn't Dorothy, the one with the dream, the real wizard you seek? Private line me if you want to talk about it. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 480 Registered: 6-2005 |
With all the other trustees available, why is Jennings even an alternate? And Sheena, what has Jennings done to exceed your expectations? From what I see of her, her intention is to push her demographic agenda, something I don't recall her talking about in the campaign. I wonder how she could have voted for the fabrication of the sculpture without finding out whether the fabricator conforms to the "new demographic." Didn't she once say that she would impose that criteria on anyone doing business with the village? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2678 Registered: 4-2002 |
jayjay: You would have to ask Calabrese and Rosen about the committee assignments. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3550 Registered: 5-2001 |
Michael B, From your post at 3:13pm, the "good news" is you can cross off the following 2 items thanks to the "Coming Soon" sculpture: 7) A gazebo covered in pigeon crap 8) a fountain I hear never worked  | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3555 Registered: 5-2001 |
Great new blog entry (as always) by Tracey on the subject: http://www.nj.com/weblogs/southorange/ | ||
| Otto von Bismarck Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 347 Registered: 6-2005 |
Keep the faith, it's not the village - it's the administration. Once we address the problem that leads us to despair, the sun will shine for a much better and lucid future for you and the village community. We simply have to rethink the way we establish our governance. The cost is too high and the services are of questionable quality. The administration is led by a triumvirate. The village administrator and attorney should be summarily relieved of their positions and the village president investigated for conflicts of interest as it relates to village sanctioned redevelopment efforts for the past 9 years. Open the closed doors, we need to set a new course, now more than ever... | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3561 Registered: 5-2001 |
Any mention of this "fiasco" in the News Record today? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2615 Registered: 5-2004 |
It's not "news" to the News Wretched. Now, if someone were to write a nice hatchet job on a prominent townie who disagres with Bill C, then we're talking real news. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3564 Registered: 5-2001 |
Listen VERY CAREFULLY to the exact words in this Video Clip: http://www.howard-levison.com/Sculpturequote.wmv Is this someone who is lying, clueless or both? |
