| Author |
Message |
    
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 714
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:27 am: | 
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Thanks MHD, I stand corrected.
I should have stated that what I wrote was my impression after hearing Calabrese and not necessarily completely factual. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3705
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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It appears the Meeting video is now available:
http://www.southorange.org/videoViewer.asp |
crabby
Citizen
Username: Crabbyappleton
Post Number: 536
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:35 am: |
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So call HUD to investigate. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 638
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 10:49 am: |
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I've really got to chime in with this but I think even applying for CDBG funds for SOPAC or the TS Sculpture is such a disgrace. I mean if everyone could just think about this for a second.... it is coming from the Department of Housing and Urban Development. I'm sorry but the fact that we're taking money away from communities who are trying to supply affordable housing to NJ citizens kinda makes me a little ill. I told one of my classmates about S.O. applying for grants from HUD for a statue and he spit up his diet coke. Does anyone else think this is a little strange? |
IMHO
Citizen
Username: Imho
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
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SID=Something (rotten) In Denmark?
Can someone help me unscramble what I think I heard last night:
Ms. Harris:
The SID is being levied on businesses in and around our major redevelopment area (Beifus/SOPAC).
The Board:
The SID is designed to "help" businesses with additional services that are expected to translate to increased traffic, revenues, etc. for those that pay the added burden.
Mrs. Harris:
Irvington Ave. businesses are exempt.
Here's what I'm struggling with: If the downtown redevelopment is REALLY going to happen, won't "a rising tide carry all boats?" Why tax those who have already suffered from years of non-development at their front doors and who may finally be nearing The Promised Land.
MEANWHILE....if we can believe that a SID really is a valid tool for improvement, why not use Irvington Avenue as a SID demonstration site. Hey, if the concept works there, we'll take it on the road.
Makes a lot more sense than what I heard last night....unless, as I said, "there something rotten....."
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1883
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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The question is (about the SID) -- with the overhead required (office space, director, other staff) will this group disperse funds and deliver services more effectively and efficiently than the village currently does? (no laughter here!)
Are services the village offers to businesses (say emptying the trash cans?) expected to now be handled by this new entity? (and therefore regular taxes on the businesses lowered equivalently?)
As a straw man, if the village moves $1M in services to the new entity (and the regular tax is reduced accordingly) and the businesses kick in another $1M via the SID, will this new staff/office be so much more effective and efficient?
Anyone have info about other similar areas that are using SIDs?
It really bothers me, when taxes in general are increasing at an above average rate, to add another tax onto businesses. To me it ONLY makes sense if the services can be better delivered, more cost effectively, and are more to the needs of the business community.
Pete |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 525
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:47 am: |
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What was that laundry list that Rosen read off concerning some new bond they are floating? Among the items included was "scuba gear"??? Do we live near the water, and have to perform underwater rescues?
And since when do towns buy copiers? Isn't the usual practice to lease them? Do they really expect a lifespan of 15 or 20 yrs for them...the term of some components of the bond? How is this good accounting practices to have to incur this kind of debt for this kind of stuff? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2688
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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Sheena, I agree completely. I had the same reaction when I first heard it was a HUD grant. However it's not just Housing, but also Urban Development. Theoretically, what is going on in SO is urban (actually, sub-urban) development. I can't imagine it is what HUD had in mind, and I do find it ridiculous that the funds are being used this way.
I'm in a bit of a quandry as a taxpayer. Morally, I know we should contact HUD to let them know about the misuse of the grant. It is obvious that the funds are being used to supplant the monies for SOPAC that are being redirected to Tau. it is for HUD to decide if that is an acceptable use of funds.
As a taxpayer, I don't want to see my taxes go up because HUD not only takes back this grant, but all the future SOPAC-related grants as well, due to this malfeasance. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 642
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
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RASTRO - I can't agree more!
"It is obvious that the funds are being used to supplant the monies for SOPAC that are being redirected to Tau."
DING DING DING - and it's illegal!!! |
Two Senses
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 424
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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By law, the Village cannot shift (and reduce) its existing services to a SID. So, long as it's contemplating forcing a SID on commercial property owners (and, in turn, their tenants), it has a clear financial DISincentive to increase or maintain services in the central business district, such as street cleaning or landscaping.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 180
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 2:27 pm: |
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Rastro, didn't you put in an OPRA request for the CDBG grant application and correspondence?
If it were handled right, HUD might allow others in the town to submit other applications for new grants and barr those who submitted any phony ones. If its illegal, it should be reported, no excuses. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2690
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 4:07 pm: |
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I put in a FOIA request to HUD, and have not heard back from them. |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 135
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 4:16 pm: |
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I am very pleased to read the above posts because they are raising excellent points. Please note that in South Orange all commercial businesses pay for private cartage (garbage removal) and it is very expensive. For example, my office pays over $115 per month. The larger businesses and restaurants pay substantially more.
To play devil's advocate, can anyone give me one example of some need or service that a SID can provide that would be desirable and not presently available to the business district?
The Town of West Orange had a bad experience with a SID. The only thing that got paid was the director, Nancy Adams (who used to work in SO) and the businesses were irate. Nothing was accomplished. She was ultimately forced out.
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joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 242
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:01 pm: |
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Sheena, you are on to something.
They are buying 33K of copiers, bonded.
Maintaining roads, 500k, bonded, scuba is for the deep dark recesses of government, where SOPAC, BEIFUSPAC, SAYYIDPAC, VOSEPAC, and your under arrestPAC need to explored.
jd |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3711
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:32 pm: |
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I just finished watching the final hour of last night's meeting on video -
WOW - that was MUST SEE TV. http://www.southorange.org/videoViewer.asp
From Calabrese's weepy speech about how far we have come in the past 14 years, to the 2 people who spoke up again to question the actions of the BOT regarding the sculpture, to Mr. Devaris rebuff of Ms. Abrams for interrupting him, to Mr. Matthews accusation of slander.
Wow! |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 244
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:46 pm: |
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Gee, I shoulda stayed, and risked arrest.
jd |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 70
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 5:53 pm: |
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I thought it was over and they were going onto behind closed doors stuff..
I could kick myself for leaving. I didn't give my kids a bedtime kiss as I was at the meeting - I left a goodbye dinner for a friend leaving town before the main course came to be at the event at 8pm when it didn't even get underway until 8.30 and now I hear that I should have stayed......
I should have stayed along with JD and watched him get arrested....
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joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 245
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 6:13 pm: |
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Thanks!
jd |
Swearengen
Citizen
Username: Swearengen
Post Number: 26
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 6:15 pm: |
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We're learning Bill's cheery exterior masks something pretty ugly. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 246
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 6:16 pm: |
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Thanks!
jd |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3148
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 6:59 pm: |
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I just finished watching the meeting too.... I'm with SOparents - wish we had stayed.
I have an idea.. Sheena... OH SHEENA... I've got a little project for the kids in the art dept.
Can they put together an actual size replica of TAU with chickenwire and cardboard? Just a thought... |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 71
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 7:07 pm: |
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SoOrLady you are a genius!!!!
Get the art department to make a Tau out of chicken wire and cardboard and use that!!!!!!! - lightweight, can be lifted out of the way when street cleaning, easily cleaned with birds poop, can be moved if needs be so it can be seen all over SO, etc etc. Cut our losses with the money spent already - Oh and another thing, if it's big enough we can just put it over the gazebo rather than knock the poor thing down...
SoOrLady, you are my hero.... 
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 646
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 9:41 pm: |
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SoOrLady - I believe it would take way to long to get them to even believe that S.O. is trying to do this. After the laughter ceases, I'll check in with the art club and see if they need any projects. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3149
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 9:04 am: |
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Actually, SOparents - my thought was to give people (including the BOT) a life-sized visual. I don't think the scale model is accurate, I think Bailey is close, but if it's possible, why not put a real representation in that spot for a weekend - then SHU could put it behind the fence for a bit. BTW, TAU isn't going exactly on the gazebo spot, but more behind it. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 78
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 9:39 am: |
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Sorry SoOrLady, I knew that you had a good and intelligent plan for the model, it was just me trying to make light of a situation which bothers me greatly.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2699
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 10:32 am: |
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Got a letter from HUD. It will take up to 30 days to fulfill my FOIA request. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4548
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
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SOlady
My ten year old nephews could make a Tau! If the art department at SH can't do this what about some of us getting together over the weekend? I bet we could put this together in a few hours? I'd be willing to help... |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3153
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:02 pm: |
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JTA - thanks for the offer, but believe me, TAU is very unique and complex - it would take much more than a couple of hours and the unskilled labor of a few neighbors to fabricate an honest representation. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 721
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:20 pm: |
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Plus you'd have to come up with approximately $500,000 for the rights to even build it!  |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3732
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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pdg,
No...the "rights" are a free gift. It's the darn $55,000 DIRT that's a killer.  |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 725
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:43 pm: |
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You're right, that sure is expensive dirt! Cheryl explained to me that it is a special dirt called "structural dirt" and I guess it is needed to properly support the weight of the sculpture. (But in that case, you'd think structural dirt would have been needed for the gazebo and that they could reuse it... who knows, maybe that budgeted item is one of the ones that supposedly could come in under budget.)
I'm sure someone experienced in building/construction projects could better explain why special dirt exists. To me, dirt is dirt. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1625
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:49 pm: |
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A couple of questions about the BOT meeting:
1. Which property is the property in resolution 3 as I recall which the Village is acquiring for $1.2 million (165 Valley St.)? Not questioning the decision, just for identification purposes only (or I could drive by myself, I guess.)
2. When Ed Matthews referred to a previous redevelopment attorney who had left out a piece of property in the original redelevoplment plan, was he referring to Chris Hartwyk, or was there a redevelopment attorney before Hartwyk who Matthews might have been referring to? And is Chris Hartwyk the attorney for the
Port Authority? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2703
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:55 pm: |
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Spitz: There was another attorney who was there before Chris Hartwyk (who does work for the Port Authority). I do not remember who was there before Chris. I have no idea who Mr. Matthews referring to when he made that statement.
The property in resolution 3 is the one next to the Gulf Station.
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 506
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 3:03 pm: |
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Another intersting item from the meeting:
Passage of "Resolution Authorizing a Settlement in Map Enterprises, Inc. v. the Township of South Orange Village, et al." allows the purchase by the Village for $1,250,000 the last property in the assembly of properties in the block specified by resolution #80-04 (Resolution Designating Millennium Homes as the Redeveloper of Block 2304, Lots 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 in the Central Business District Redevelopment Area.)
Block 2304, Lots 3,7,8 are Parking Authority lots on Third Street; Lot 5 is the Gulf Station now owned by the Village; Lot 4 is the empty car dealership which is this purposed purchase.
Is the Village inventorying these properties for some future grand plan that has not be communicated? I didn’t hear any discussion before the resolution was passed. Are we going down another slippery slope?
Will Millennium Homes build or if not should the redeveloper status be rescinded? If they plan on building, we will lose the parking facilities but at what price – these are our assets!
Can they be used temporally as extension of the current Third Street parking?
We are also losing tax revenues and paying interest on Bonds while the Village has possession. Just add this to the other properties such as - ShopRite/Vose.
Current Tax records indicate:
Block: 2304 Lot: 3 Parking Lot:
6 Third Street, South Orange Village, NJ
Land: 269,300.00 Build: 84,200.00 Total $353,500.00
Block: 2304 Lot: 4 Old Car Dealership:
165 Valley Street, South Orange Village, NJ
Land: 160,700.00 Build: 289,300.00 Total $450,000.00
Block: 2304 Lot: 5 Gulf Station (Purchased by the Village for $675,000 on 7/05):
153 Valley Street, South Orange Village, NJ
Land: 250,000.00 Build: 100,000.00 Total $350,000.00
Block: 2304 Lot: 6 20 Third Street, South Orange Village, NJ
Land: 101,200.00 Build: 70,200.00 Total $171,400.00
Parking Lot:
Block: 2304 Lot: 7 16 Third Street, South Orange Village, NJ
Land: 54,600.00 Build: 67,900.00 Total $122,500.00
Parking Lot
Block: 2304 Lot: 8 12 Third Street, South Orange Village, NJ
Land: 54,400.00 Build: 84,600.00 Total $139,000.00
Block: 2304 Lot: 9 4 Third Street, South Orange Village, NJ
Land: 157,800.00 Build: 0.00 Total $157,800.00
Gulf Station: Bond $ 675,000 Tax $ 22,000
Car Dealership Bond $ 1,250,000 Tax $ 26,000
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Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1626
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
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My impression is that Ed Matthews was referring to the redevelopment attorney before Chris Hartwyk, since Matthews referred to the attorney involved in the original redevelopment plan. As I recall, Chris became redevelopment attorney after the original plan was done. Only Mr. Matthews knows since he didn't mention a name. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3743
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 7:39 am: |
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Quote:We're learning Bill's cheery exterior masks something pretty ugly.
Like this? www.howard-levison.com/Calabrese.wmv
 |
dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 291
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 9:05 am: |
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I have heard from a trustee more than a year ago that the plan was to redevelop the Gulf-Brunner-Parking lot area with retail and apartments (and public parking). I had a hard time believing the parking part, since developers are not really public spirited enough to provide cheap public parking and parking decks are definitely not cheap compared to surface lots. The village council appears to be dealing away one of the most cherished assets, inexpensive parking, without articulating a plan to replace it. Will there be a parking deck, will South Orange's taxpayers foot the bill? (Muniparking decks are very expensive per space and rarely pay completely for themselves since they are not utilized 100% of the time). It is frustrating becaus public action (and a lot of not so public actions) in South Orange is surrounded by huge question marks. The village government here reminds me of the government of some fictional rural Alabama county run by a few cracker cronies. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3163
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 9:17 am: |
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IMHO, the BOT should take the Beifus lot and build a parking deck on that site. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2713
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
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Can anyone with some video editing software snip the section of the 3/27 meeting from 2:28:20 through 2:28:32 where Calabrese says that things were explained, and even though some people, including some BOARD MEMBERS did not understand it, still, it was explained.
What is the point of explaining something if no one can understand what you're talking about?
I don't have the right tools, and can't find anything free to do it with. |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 368
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:16 am: |
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And when will he stop wearing that ridiculous purple shirt? |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3166
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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Maybe it's his signature color |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3747
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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Rastro,
I can send you that clip tonight.
(Windows Movie Maker is actually pretty easy to use) |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2715
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:36 am: |
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And someone needs to tell Ms. Moore-Abrams that when she mutters into her microphone, we can all still hear her. |
Sitoyan
Citizen
Username: Sitoyan
Post Number: 160
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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Face it Rastro, we'll have to deal with Terriann Moore Abrams for three more years. Get used to it. The happy thing is that she is not going to be there for half of the meetings. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 734
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 12:33 pm: |
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thread drift -
why won't my Windows Media Player play clips anymore? I may have messed it up using Itunes, but don't know what to do. Help? |
Charles Paris Lemnos
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 368
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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As a frenchman, I can't believe how some are willing to underestimate the power of the people to remedy change. Amazing, how shallow some people are in the spirit of political persuasion. The revolution is upon us. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 511
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 1:00 pm: |
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DGM - you got the point. We cannot allow this to become another sculpture fiasco. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2717
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 1:35 pm: |
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PDG, if you are double-clicking on the files and Media Player is not coming up, you can go into windows explorer (not Internet explorer), and click on Tools... Folder Options... File Types... Scroll down to WMV files, and select it. Then click on Change... and pick the Windows Media Player.
Alternatively, you can right click on the file, and select Open With... and you should be able to pick Windows Media Player. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3757
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 7:49 pm: |
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BTW, speaking of the 3/27 Meeting, I noticed the dumpsters outside Blue Moon/Village Diner were still there today in front of the mural. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 263
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 9:11 pm: |
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Because they are not in front of Bill's businesses.
Maybe he can order the police to arrest the dumpsters.
jd |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 83
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 8:05 am: |
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Joel, I hope you weren't standing on the sidewalk beside them at the time, after all, this appears to be NJ transit property, and that could mean that you were trespassing.... (you like the live on the edge don't you, threatened with arrest at the meeting and now possibly trespassing??) You devil you... |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 268
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
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If a sidewalk contiguous to our town's sidewalk does not have any identifying notice that it is private property, then it becomes the town's sidewalk, barring separate written agreement defining property rights between the town and NJT.
Perhaps a state law says otherwise, but I doubt it.
Anyway, our own town's Clarence Darrow Matthews could answer this important question, if asked.
The town would be sued, and liable, for anything going wrong and causing damages at that site, where school kids through old-timers walk.
jd |
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