| Author | Message | ||
     Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2006 |
Susan, Prop 13 didn't have all of the answers by a long shot. Education really suffered. California schools went from first place in the nation to 20th. Most of the thanks go to Governor Reagan. My example was meant to show what a community of taxpayers can do. I am not holding myself up as an expert. I started off saying I liked the sculpture and the idea of having sculpture in the towns of South Orange and Maplewood. I felt that someone had to say something positive. Since the bricks got thrown, I have appreciated the comments made and felt that yours and Pdg's remarks hit many of the right target. Do I think the Performing Arts could have been financed differently, Absolutely. You have no argument from me. While I am a bit of an outsiders view that is an advantage not a liability. Also moving back means moving a business for 25 employees as well. 25 are going to stay here in California. So I have done a lot of research. NJ has great potential, but it could really screw it up royally. I would rather have a business in NJ than Michigan for only one example. I appreciate your viewpoint; I believe you should press it very hard. Start persuade the BOT to listen differently. And remember, it isn't the individual BOT member; that person can be replaced easily and the chances of having the same thing is high unless the fundamental questions are addressed. That is all I am saying. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4500 Registered: 1-2004  |
Fred- Well I still say we were lied to and if your group wants this, you shoud pay for it... There are too many things our town needs right now. A statue isn't one of them. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9006 Registered: 4-1997  |
(Frederick's in California) | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4501 Registered: 1-2004 |
Fred I noticed you said your wife and kids will be moving to MAPLEWOOD, not South ORange. So, maybe you could have the statue moved to Maplewood. Then again, they don't want it either... | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 519 Registered: 6-2005 |
This BOT in my view is incapable of listening differently. I would welcome it if they listened period. Observe a BOT meeting. If they don't like what a person at the mike is saying, they shout him/her down or talk over the person. | ||
| mary032 Citizen Username: Mary032 Post Number: 232 Registered: 8-2001 |
Frederick Schmid, your numbers seemed way out so I went and listed the names. There are 54 participants critical of the statue in 10 threads, started beginning of March. Here they are: Threads: Online Petition against spending Taxes for Tau, Almost $500,000 tax increase/BOT lied, How large is the TAU thing going to be? Proposed Tony Smith Sculpture Replacement: BLAME,Alternative Sites for T.Smith sculpture, Statue Misunderstanding?, Tony Smith Sculpture, T Smith Statue, Mr. DeVaris, Is this Legal? Participants: Ace789nj, AntoninaKC, Bailey, Bettyd, Brett Weir, CageyD, Campbell29, Composerjohn, Crabby, Crazy_quilter, Dan Shelffo, Dave, Debra Davidson, Extuscan, FlyingSpaghettiMonst, Glock 17, Growler, Hariseldon, Hoops, Howard Levison, Jayjay, Jim Murphy, Joel Dranove, Josh Holtz, Just the Aunt, Lewisinsov, Lizziecat, Lucy, Matt Foley, Mayor McCheese, MHD, Michael brant, Mjc, Monster, Parkingsux, Parrot Head, Pdg, Peteglider, Pizzaz, Rastro, Sheena Collum SHU, SO1969, SoOrLady, Soparents, SOrising, SOSully, Spanish Inquisitor, Spitz, Stevef, Stuart0628, Susan 1014, The Mighty Tau, Tracey Randinelli, Vermontgolfer. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1612 Registered: 3-2003 |
62 signatures so far (a couple are the same.) I don't know what the outcome is going to be, but the BOT has to realize by now that things are no longer the same as they were. You no longer can allow dates to be given that you know yourselves can't possibly be true, numbers to be thrown around without being questioned (i.e., we're for it for two hundred thousand for four years,) things to be said that don't answer the question (your taxes will actually go down because the value of downtown properties will go up,) and so on. For too long the governing body of SO and particularly its leader have just said whatever is convenient. 62 signatures so far says that this will no longer be the case. We're watching and listening and acting. Certainly a lot more of the residents will be doing so now than in the past. (Cross posted with Mary's post. Not a response to her post.) | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 165 Registered: 2-2006 |
63 and climbing, Spitz. For anyone who wants the petition website (can someone make it a link?) without having to go into the archive, here it is: http://www.petitiononline.com/SOtaxes/petition.html | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2005 |
http://www.petitiononline.com/SOtaxes/petition.html | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4504 Registered: 1-2004 |
Fredrick S, might be telling the truth. There is a Carl Schmid who graduate CHS in 1958 in the Columbia High School Directory, but the directory says he lives in South Jersey. I can't believe how many Carl Schmids there are in NJ and Calif! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4505 Registered: 1-2004 |
But Fred- You asked people in MAPLEWOOD!!! They do not live in South ORange. Who cares what they think about how great it is South Orange residents are having this forced on us. If you and all these people think it's such a reat thing, have it moved to Maplewood and YOU all can pay for it. But wait, guess what? Most of those posting about this statue in both Maplewood and South Orange DO NOT want it under the circumstances we're being forced to take it! | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 237 Registered: 2-2005 |
One arguement i keep hearing is that the upkeep for the statue is less than the upkeep on the fountain, that it is easier to plow a level area, and that the fountain is dangerous for pedestrians. So fill in the fountain already! But i still have often used the gazebo to get out of the rain or sun while waiting for my husband's train with my children. I like the gazebo. i like the fountain, too, but if it is such a drain on this town than get rid of it, but you don't need to add something else there. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 634 Registered: 4-2005  |
MHD - Looks like the student voice is represented well on the petition  - 400 South Orange Avenue seems pretty popular. I know our Resident Student Association is actively engaging themselves in this and there are many organizations who are greatly disturbed and are willing to help in any fashion. Keep me posted on what you need done and we'll cover the end over here. I can honestly say that I've received several e-mails that begin "are you kidding me?" Keep it going P.S. Although I could not attend the meeting tonight - great job to everyone who showed up. I tuned in close to 11pm and it was still being discussed which leads me to believe there was a solid turn out. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 168 Registered: 2-2006 |
Sheena, do all of the people from 400 South Orange Avenue vote in municipal elections in SO? Would they be willing to work for candidates in the next BOT elections? Its great they are signing. Thank you for facilitating it. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3698 Registered: 5-2001  |
Great job Sheena!! The signatures are coming in fast & furious tonight. P.S. - Watching Town Hall Meetings? Signing Petitions? Holy Cow - College sure has changed from when I was there (and it wasn't THAT long ago).  | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1130 Registered: 5-2003 |
How is the petition going to be made puiblic? Is it going to be published in the papers? Will the BOT see it? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3699 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lizzie, I suppose that is for everyone to still decide. BTW...I have been given "admin access" to the petition and have now deleted DUPLICATE signatures (same name and address and comments). Multiple signatures are still allowed per address, with different people. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 635 Registered: 4-2005 |
SOrising - actually, yes. You may have missed all the controversy surrounding elections last year which was basically, we setup a voting bloc of 1000 plus voters - every single vote was challenged on election day as I sat and starred at one of the attorneys from Line C and then we could only get 150 student votes because the election took place 1 week after students left campus and a lot of absentees came in after that time, etc. etc. Not the best experience but yes, a good number of students worked on the ADE election last year and had a hella good time (hopefully do better in the future but it was a good first attempt - and we enjoyed being called "hijackers"  ). MHD - (wasn't too long ago? oh yes, I studied that concept in psychology... called "denial"? oh j/k pay back for the other thread - now we're even ) I know that Kristen is sending it out as well as many other students. Keep in mind - we accumulated that many signatures in a couple hours... so we shall see what this week brings... Another thought - I know that SOAR had a lot of problems with the petition they submitted to the BOT concerning redevelopment - I would check in to those problems because I'm sure validity will be questioned regarding this one as well... | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 712 Registered: 5-2004  |
Sheena, will they be voting in the upcoming BOE elections? Any favorites? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 172 Registered: 2-2006 |
Sorry to hear the dirty details about the last election and students trying to vote, Sheena. More people in SO need to know about it. I hope you have everyone lined up in the next election with absentee ballots to be mailed before they leave, if they have it again after classes end. I'm sure there will be some attempt to disenfranchise students again, if they tried it before. An active electorate in a university community does wonders to end various town-gown squabbles. Maybe the university will save SO from its entrenched bad habits. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2699 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sheena: As I have stated before, SOAR never formally turned in petitions to the village clerk's office. | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3385 Registered: 11-2001  |
Sheena: You're playing with them. Please allow all the saints to come marching in..... | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1619 Registered: 3-2003 |
Sheena - I wasn't aware until your post above that each and every vote from a SHU student was challenged. I know that you and Brian had expected this, but until your post I didn't know it actually had occurred. Additionally, I know that people had to be escorted away by someone from the sherriff's office. We're these people there to specifically intimidate SHU voters? You and I sparred a lot pre-election about who should pay for the jitney, but I never questioned the legitimacy of the students right to vote in the SO elections. I was deeply troubled when I heard about the people who had to be escorted away. In some respects, I thought this was a new low in SO politics. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 639 Registered: 4-2005 |
Pdg - Of course I have favorites but I'd rather not say on the message board. SOrising - I'm gonna PL you back in a few. Most people who voted know about it. I wrote a letter to the editor last summer explaining what happened so people would know. It ran on election day. mrosner - I sent you an official email to your account at southorange.org last week - did you receive it? pizzaz - turn down the music . Me and Kristen are coming to visit you soon. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2700 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sheena: No, I did not. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 640 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hey Mr. Spitz, Yes they were challenged - we sat across from an attorney at the Division of Elections who said 'challenge' to every single vote from 400 South Orange Avenue. Ms. Elaine can attest to this as she's the one who called me. I can tell you there were many residents who were not from S.O. on campus that day, lol. But oh well, won't dwell, hazard zet forward. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 641 Registered: 4-2005 |
I'll just send it straight to you - what's your email again? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2701 Registered: 4-2002 |
mrosnernyc@yahoo.com | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 237 Registered: 5-2005  |
The amount of signatures is over 150! Great job on spreading the word. | ||
| Tracey Randinelli Citizen Username: Traceyr Post Number: 15 Registered: 4-2005 |
Re: Petitions--When SOAR presented our petition to the BOT, we didn't realize that you can't just go up and hand the trustees a petition--it has to be officially submitted to Marge Smith and distributed to the board that way. I THINK the petition was submitted after the fact, but can't be sure. We did submit letters from residents signed during the March on Village Hall--those I personally delivered to Marge's office. Eric DeVaris seemed to throw down a gauntlet of sorts a few weeks back when he said something along the lines of "bring us a petition with 2,000 signatures, and we'll have a referendum." (Eric, please correct me if I've misquoted you!) I'm curious about the online petition--is it considered "valid"? (if in fact there even is such a thing as a "valid" petition)? In other words, can the petition administrator print it out at a certain point and hand it over to Marge? | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2005 |
Tracey, Even if the online petition isn't "valid", there are now a plentiful amount of SO residents who have been either inspired by the petition, or angered at WHY the petition was needed, that they will not only knock on the doors of the people who signed the petition and have them sign a hard copy, they will knock on their neighbors, and their neighbors neighbor and so on and so on and so on, and before we know it, a hard copy petition will have circulated the town. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4535 Registered: 1-2004 |
Tracey- Thanks for the post about petitions. This only reinforces the fact there should be something in the minutes about Ms Ardnets poll. Since there isn't, it just makes me believe more there wasn't one done. Isn't our petition the same as a pool? | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4536 Registered: 1-2004 |
Tracey- Yes something was said about 2000 signatures and a referendum. I am pretty sure when this was said eith MG or Joel or one of the other gentlemen who spoke out in frustration asked if there was a petition in favor of the statue with the same amount of signatures. I don't think we'd have any problem at all getting this anount of signitures plus some. But we need to move fast. We should do something by the end of this week, so we can go before the board again on Monday. That's all most of us have been asking, LET THE RESIDENTS VOTE on this!!! | ||
| Swearengen Citizen Username: Swearengen Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2005  |
I'm missing something. Are there 2,000 signatures in favor of Tau? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3708 Registered: 5-2001 |
SOParents, I assure you - if we are to be held to producing 2000 signatures collected manually, it will not be for the bungling of $250,000-$500,000 for a sculpture. It WILL, however, be for a RECALL ELECTION for the destruction of our Village and the bungling of MILLIONS by Calabrese & Co. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 644 Registered: 4-2005 |
MHD - I think we need to get the neighborhood associations involved with this. Do you have those lists? If not, I believe I have them. I'd really like to see how many of them were polled on this issue. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 3709 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sheena, You can probably contact Howard offline for that info. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2691 Registered: 5-2004  |
I would put every cent I had on the notion that Ms. Arnedt questioned people at the various associations that she spoke to, and that was her "poll." Given that they were probably given incomplete information, and people who participate in a neighborhood association are more likely to lean toward supporting a project like this, I believe it is apparent that it is not only not a majority of South orange residents polled, but not even a good representative sample. I believe in statistical terms, it's called a weighted sample, and not a representative random sample. (though it's been a long time since my stats classes) | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4539 Registered: 1-2004 |
Swear Of course there aren't 2000 signatures on anything in favor of our tax dollars paying for the statue. I'm willing to bet there aren't even 200! IF there were, I would think the document would have been produced by now to shut us all up. If anyone is interested in being heard on this in the press, PL me your contact information - phone number and email. I contacted a news organization with an interest in doing a more acurate story. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 247 Registered: 1-2006 |
Eric is disingenuous. We don't get two thousand to vote in the first place. But, he does mix it up when so moved, and that is an improvement. I just wish he will stop looking down the refractor, towards the eyepiece. jd |
