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Stuart0628
Citizen
Username: Stuart0628
Post Number: 253
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:11 am: | 
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For reasons of pragmatism, I am inclined to agree with Sheena. The threshold for mounting a recall in a municipality as large as ours appears to be too high.
We have an election coming up in 13 months. It might take that long, or nearly so, to mount a recall.
If what is going on in this village is mere misfeasance, the best course of action is to challenge what needs challenging when able to do so, educate the electorate, and arrive at consensus on three intelligent, articulate candidates who can both win an election and govern effectively.
If what is going on is malfeasance, there is another course of action that involves the Attorney General's office. I am not implying that any such malfeasance has occurred, but neither am I convinced it has not. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3203
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:23 am: |
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Good post Sheena - somewhere back in time, maybe about a month ago, I impulsively suggested a recall...then, after doing some research I suggested that our time and money would be better spent educating the public and gearing up for the next election.
A recall would cost the taxpayers in the area of $25,000. It would take at least 6 months to accomplish and we would have to find viable candidates to fill the positions of those we recall. Waiting an additional 7 months for the scheduled election and not spending $25,000+ makes sense to me.
I would like to say again to Eric, Stacy and Terri Ann - you have the opportunity in your hands to stop the madness. In reviewing Tau, Beifus, Sayid's properties & Millenieum, use independent thinking, do some homework beyond what is explained to you by Mr.s Gross & Matthews and look at what is best for the town - then use your voices and three votes wisely. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 265
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:32 am: |
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The question is how much more damage will be accomplished in over a year's time from now? It can easily be in the millions compared to $25,000 for a recall poll. The longer the VP remains in office, the more he will damage the town. I think there is considerable urgency to have him removed, so that he cannot continue to wreck havoc on the town's finances, future and trust.
And yes, Sheena, an explanation would be provided when people are asked to sign. His list of costly offences and mistakes in the town is long. The main point is that there are significant costs in doing nothing, in languishing in the current rut, and I think they are more than having a recall.
It is true that people would have to summon their courage to sign. But if they want to take back their town from ruin and devastation, that's a decision they cannot escape. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3208
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:50 am: |
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rising - it's not a year... while we're scurrying getting names on a petition (which by the way has a time limit), and finding candidates and setting up and paying for a special election he still has time to do damage. Six months of that year you mention will have come and gone.
Better to put pressure on the sitting trustees to step up and be responsible.
Better to educate the public and prepare them to be responsible voters.
Better to encourage people to attend or call in to BOT meetings and let their voices be heard.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 267
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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SoOrLady, the BOT ignores public opinion. Witness the 220+ signatures to stop Tau. A recall petition may be the single most effective way at present to educate the public. The only pressure the BOT will respond to is in the ballot box.
Thousands of people take the trains to work five days a week. There are probably more NJ Transit commuters in SO than there are people who voted in the last municipal election. It's doable, save but the will and work to do it. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 268
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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One other thing, the next municipal elections aren't until the spring (April or May last time?) of 2007. About a year or a little longer if we waited. Too long, too much damage can happen. They are rapidly increasing taxes and debt as we write. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2797
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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SOrising, but as SoOrLady is saying, you cannot compare a year to NOW. You have to compare a year to 6 months, which is the minimum amount of time it will take to do a recall. And it is not just comparing $25k to the cost of six extra months of damage that can be done. If people are concentrating on the recall, that takes away from efforts to reign in the BOT and stay vigilant. It makes it tougher to get people involved on specific issues.
I would bet good money that many peple who would support challenging the BOT on Tau (and a number of other issues) would be put off by a recall effort. Therefore, you alienate potential allies by aligning the efforts too closely.
If Bill were running again, and the election were in two or three years intead of one, I might support this. But realistically, I don't see a recall being successful, and that effort could be put to much better use on educating people about specific issues. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 271
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:23 pm: |
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What is the basis for thinking it would be six months before a vote could be taken, Rastro? Even if it were 6 months, a huge difference between now and a year from now is that the keen focus the sculpture problem has brought to the BOT will have dissipated. Now is the time to educate people and a recall petition would focus attention even further to a constructive outcome. One thing they should be educated about is that the VP spearheaded the sculpture fiasco; if they don't like it, they should recognize and do something about those most responsible for it. This is the best opportunity to do something constructive and effective. It won't exist a year from now.
How do you think people are able to "reign in" (its rein BTW, I believe) the BOT now, since the BOT is merrily proceeding in complete disregard of public sentiment, over the sculpture, taxes, debt, development, a SID, any number of issues? But they would pay attention to a recall drive and vote or fail to at the peril of their own office. One reason more people don't show up to BOT and planning board meetings is that they think it is futile to do so, for good reason. Give them a real reason to get involved, give them hope, Rastro. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2802
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:14 pm: |
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A recall vote is essentially a vote of confidence. If it is not successful, you have shown the people you want to oust that they have the support of the town, rightly or wrongly. I don't think it would succeed, so I don't think it is worth pursuing.
I am basing my assumption of 6 months on SoOrLady's previous comment to that effect. Once you have enough signatures (which could take from several weeks to several months), an election has to be publicized, candidates need to be identified and campaign, and an election needs to be held. I don't know if you can simply remove someone from office without someone to take their place.
Yes, it is rein in this case. My apologies for the typo. Thank you for correcting that. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1483
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
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I'm not so concerned about the six months or the $25,000. Given the impending Valley Street redevelopment project, I'm not sure we have a year to burn. Starting a recall movement might shock more of the town into paying attention and asking questions. It might bring on a level of attention that would nip the next set of questionable deals in the bud. I fully assume that Bill Calabrese has a whole set of plans that he expects to finalize before leaving office, and fear that he is more concerned with his legacy and vision than with the long-term financial impact.
On the opposite side, I wouldn't want to see a recall go forward without excellent planning, fundraising, and thoughtfulness on the question of who should be its public face.
We have to assume that media coverage would be sparse (Star-Ledger) or hostile (News Record), and the BOT members in question would be able to use their office to put out more special mailings to tell us their spin on the story. So a recall effort would have to have the funding and the organization to move forward through mailings, pamphlets, meetings and the like, requiring both significant volunteer effort and a significant budget.
In addition, much as I love some of our local protesters, not all of them would make good headliners for this. This effort would require both passion about the issues and the ability to look like a voice of reason in a sea of chaos. It probably also would require a leadership that reflects the diversity of our town, and is willing to recognize and appreciate the town's love for the arts (and even its desire to honor Tony Smith).
I'm on the fence. A recall done well might be able to start change in a more timely fashion, and avoid a rash of "lame duck" dealmaking, but a recall botched might make the opposition look like marginal malcontents, and make it easier for our Village President to hand things over to his hand-picked successors in the next regularly-scheduled election. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2804
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:31 pm: |
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Susan, I agree with everything you say. But to me, the key is this:
Quote:In addition, much as I love some of our local protesters, not all of them would make good headliners for this.
I would also add the general apathy that our residents show toward local politics would make it even more of an uphill battle.
Those being opposed will frame it as a relatively small group of troublemakers not getting their way on one or two key issues, and trying to use the recall process to blackmail elected officials onto doing their bidding. Which is why I very amuch agree with you points that "a recall effort would have to have the funding and the organization to move forward through mailings, pamphlets, meetings and the like, requiring both significant volunteer effort and a significant budget" and that "[t]his effort would require both passion about the issues and the ability to look like a voice of reason in a sea of chaos. It probably also would require a leadership that reflects the diversity of our town, and is willing to recognize and appreciate the town's love for the arts (and even its desire to honor Tony Smith)." [emphasis mine]
I would not oppose a recall. I just would not recommend it. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3142
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:39 pm: |
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I would happily sign a petition to remove Calabrese. I would also happily use one of my vacation days to help him clear out his office. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 274
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:54 pm: |
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susan1014, I think the rate of lame-duck deal-making is frenetic and will only gain speed with each passing day. It is not only BC in this position. I also would not want a poorly conducted recall. The stakes are too high.
(Everyone, please consider continuing this discussion under the thread on BC's recall. It would be easier for people to follow one thread than two.) |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:13 pm: |
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Today's News-Record confirms that it was the SO members of the BOSE who asked the BOE to add $538 thousand to the already $635 thousand special items previously approved by the BOE to bring the total amount of the special proposal up to $1.17 million. Only David Huemer of the Maplewood side supported the increased spending. The 7.38% increase in school taxes that SO residents will see in their tax bills that I referred to above didn't include the additional $538 thousand.
For those who are not familiar with the way the budget caps work, this increase of approxiamately 7.5% is now automatically built into the base for next year and compounds ever year.
There's going to be a rude awakening Jan.1, 2008 (or really August 2008 when the tax bill is received reflecting the new assessment.) |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 81
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:30 pm: |
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Simple math. Take what you are currently paying in real estate taxes and in 7 to 10 years it will double. 20 today gets you 40 in 10 years. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1676
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 3:09 pm: |
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Howard, Jennifer - Did the CBAC make a recommendation to the BOSE members that they should ask for the additional $538 thousand in the special proposal? |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3829
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 3:26 pm: |
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Here's another video showing the type of government (in)action that causes our outrageous taxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssi9kwSjpkM |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1678
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 4:35 pm: |
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Howard - I see you're online. What was the CBAC's recommendation to the BOSE members? Did the CBAC recommend the additional $538 thousand? |
joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 330
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 4:49 pm: |
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A New Sign for South Orange - Recall-abrese
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 540
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 5:28 pm: |
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Spitz, it's a complicated answer and I can discuss with you if you like offline. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3832
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 5:43 pm: |
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joso -  |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page
Recall-abrese