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Message |
    
SO1969
Citizen
Username: Bklyn1969
Post Number: 256
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 1:28 pm: | 
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Or just when it suits him?
In another thread I'm taking Mark Rosner to task, even though he's been willing to bare his soul and has been the source of much information on the T. Smith controversy. Seems like Eric, the other "reform" minded BOT member is getting off easy.
Mr. DeVaris has signed off on the T. Smith topic.
But what about the process issues?
Let's pretend it isn't a sculpture by an artist that Eric wants to honor.
Let's pretend it is just another $500,000 public works expenditure.
Is Eric living up to his campaign promises?
Is it okay to tell the public they're going into debt for streets and sidewalks and use the money for something significantly different?
Is it okay to not use the resources available to you - Gaslight and web site - to fully inform the public about the proposed project, its costs, sources of funding, its design, etc.? |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 797
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 1:41 pm: |
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And, I'm not at all sure of the answer to this question, and mean it just as a straghtforward question:
Does Eric being a member of the "Advisory Committee" of the Lennie Pierro Memorial Arts Foundation represent a conflict and should he have abstained from voting?
(Likewise, Bill Calabrese, who is also listed as a member of the Advisory Committee.) |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 294
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 1:56 pm: |
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Conflict, everywhere else.
jd |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 531
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 3:01 pm: |
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And what about the $500,000 plus that will be spent on the Old Stone House just to stabilize it. We still don't know what it will be used for and how much more it will take to make it habitable (other than the current furry creatures)- projections are in the millions. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 241
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 4:28 pm: |
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Yes, Pdg, neither DeVaris nor Calabrese should have voted on the sculpture on the BOT since they have official ties to the Pierro Foundation. It is a conflict of their private interests with their public duties. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2772
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 4:33 pm: |
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Honestly, I think that is absolutely ridiculous. of course they can vote on it. They believe in something personally, and are voting on it. They have no financial interest in this. If someone is part of an advocacy group for quality water, does that mean they cannot vote on things pertaining to water quality? If someone is part of a group that advocates open space, does that mean they cannot vote on issues of open space?
There is no conflict. Don't be absurd. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 560
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 4:43 pm: |
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If we could get a clear picture from our village attorney as to what constitutes a conflict of interest, maybe we would have a better understanding of when it comes into play. What is clear is that our VP seems to think that the only conflict is the 200' property rule, and he has so stated at a recent BOT meeting. Of course, he can't or won't see that financial interests extend beyond that simple delineator. And he won't disclose what sorts of deals he has going with Sayid or anyone else, thereby intentionally keeping citizens in the dark. I'm sure he has our best interests at heart. Soon we'll all be driving Porsches. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2773
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 4:47 pm: |
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What does any of that have to do with whether Eric Devaris is good for government? |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 9113
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 5:03 pm: |
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Maybe no one should vote on it because they all live in South Orange? |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 295
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 5:14 pm: |
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voting town monies to a not-for profit-whose board you sit upon is inherently a conflict.
you obviously feel strongly about the not for profit, and you control the purse-strings.
jd |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 802
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 5:22 pm: |
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They don't sit on the board. They are listed as members of the "Advisory Committee."
But I tend to agree; I don't think it appropriate that someone vote to use my tax dollars to support their personal choice of charities without me being given the opportunity to vote on it! |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 296
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 5:31 pm: |
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What is an advisory committee, but a committee with input, (or is output?), into the taxpayer's pocket.
jd |
pan
Citizen
Username: Pan
Post Number: 113
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 5:31 pm: |
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Eric DeVaris was not on the Board of Trustees in 2004 when the sculpture funding was voted. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 9114
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 5:35 pm: |
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Eric is innocent.
And he make sense when he speaks. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 561
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 5:39 pm: |
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Perhaps, but he did vote in favor of moving forward with the contract authorizing the fabrication, as all current board members did. None of them stood up to declare the emperor has no clothes. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 651
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 10:07 pm: |
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Eric is one of the greatest things that has happened to South Orange - the title of this thread is very disconcerting and the answer is yes - absolutely. Some may disagree with Eric's position on THIS ONE ISSUE but does that constitute a questioning of everything else he has done? That post would be a little too long but for those of us who go to all the meetings and watch them - know that Eric is VERY EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD FOR THIS COMMUNITY AND THIS GOVERNMENT. (The caps don't mean I'm yelling... just for emphasis). |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 563
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 11:04 pm: |
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I believe Eric made a huge mistake in not distancing himself from the entrenched members of BOT's, and not standing up for following the proper processes in government. As much as he may love Tau, honesty and integrity should trump that, and he should have voted "no" once he knew about the funding mismanagement. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2775
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 11:17 pm: |
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By the time the funding mismanagement was brought to light, I don't believe there was a vote to be taken. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3809
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 4, 2006 - 11:32 pm: |
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Rastro,
I think jayjay is referring to when the BOT was asked if they would STILL vote the same way (after the "mismanagement" was brought to light) and Eric said he would. Even at the last meeting, he acknowledged the people in his "circle" were overwhelmingly in favor of the sculpture, so he made the assumption that the town was overwhlemingly in favor. (the same error Ms. Arnedt made) However, even when he heard the vocal opposition here on MOL and at the past few meetings he has continued to stand firm in support of this project.
I appreciate a leader with conviction, but as jayjay said, "honesty and integrity should trump that" once the TRUTH is revealed. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 532
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 8:58 am: |
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We should also ask if they agree on the location. |
Sitoyan
Citizen
Username: Sitoyan
Post Number: 164
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
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Howard Levison,
Your two posts in this thread are irrelevant to the question: "Is Eric DeVaris for Good Government?" You talk about the costs of the Old Stone House, and THEIR opinion on the location of the sculpture. Yet you ran with DeVaris in the last election. What is your opinion on the question at hand? Is Eric DeVaris for Good Government? |
Erin Cartman
Citizen
Username: Carnac
Post Number: 43
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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I am not saying that the majority of the people in town want the piece of art but, a BOT member not changing his mind because of public opposition on an internet board fine with me. Let's not forget that far less than 1/2 of 1% of the population has posted anything on the subject OR even signed the petition. MOL should never be keystone in making a decision -- the last few elections have proved that -- because it does not represent a true cross section (both geographical or economical) of the town. [Assuming stats for MOL users mirror stats of internet users in general] The only thing MOL can be is a voice amongst many. In Eric's case he has stated that the other "voices" he has heard have wanted it. And hence he voted for it and says he would again. Isn't that conviction? Isn't that a leader standing up for what HE or SHE believes is right? Isn't that all you can ask of a person on the board?
And I did not even vote Eric! |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 565
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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It is not about public opposition to the statue per se. It is about government processes --- the deceit to the public on how it was to be funded. That is what Eric should have stood for and voted "no" to the fabrication contract. And if he couldn't do that because he felt he was letting down the others who sit with him on the Pierro committee, then he should have recused himself for conflict of interest. (As should have Calabrese who also sits on that committee.) |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2777
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
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Erin, the only nit I would pick with your comment is that it appears over 1% of the town has signed the online petition. MOL representation is lower, but in a larger city like NYC, that 1% would equate to approximately 80,000 signatures. Would that group be so easily dismissed? |
FlyingSpaghettiMonst
Citizen
Username: Noodlyappendage
Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
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What percentage of signers use 400 So. Oange Ave or an address outside of South Orange? Just curious! |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2782
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 12:05 pm: |
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I don't think any are from outside South Orange, and those that live at 400 SO Ave are residents, and can vote in elections. So I don't see your point. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 813
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 12:20 pm: |
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MHD, it might be useful to again post the link to your original signature geographic map! |
FlyingSpaghettiMonst
Citizen
Username: Noodlyappendage
Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 1:20 pm: |
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John Paul Hroncich 812 Linden Ave
Maria Rivoli-Vasquez 923 Smith Street
178. Victoria Minucci 4 Remmington Rd.
So Rastro, these are just from the last page of the pettition. Any idea where these streets are in South Orange? |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 9126
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 1:25 pm: |
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Perhaps they're reproductions of other streets? |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3814
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 1:40 pm: |
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PDG,
http://www.batchgeocode.com/map/?i=4c6cf01097e36a55bb0d4f6061c1d76a
The graphic above shows opposition to spending Taxes for Tau in EVERY neighborhood. |
Politicalmon
Citizen
Username: Politicalmon
Post Number: 111
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 1:48 pm: |
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I'm with JayJay - once fiscal mismanagement became apparent and the probability of monetary liability to the taxpayers became real - there should have been a proactive effort to generate funding by local government, and not on the back of the taxpayers of our overtaxed community. I personally think we should make Seton Hall come up with the shortfall or better yet have someone determine what percentage of fire and police services they consume. Then send them a bill for services rendered, including contribution to healthcare and pension. After which, I'm sure we will find the money needed to build the sculpture without a penny being paid by the already burdened home owners of the Village. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2791
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 2:12 pm: |
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FSM, good question. Perhaps they are students who are listing their home addresses? I looked through the petition for anyone listing a town other than SO. I didn't check every street. |
FlyingSpaghettiMonst
Citizen
Username: Noodlyappendage
Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 2:58 pm: |
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Exactly my point Rastro. These students ARE listing there home addresses and really aren't that interested in South Orange, just signing on cause they were TOLD to by the Student Gov't and they thought it was kewl. If they were as conciencious as Sheena etal. I'd have no problem, but get real, most of these 400 So. orange Avenue signatories know as much about the Tony Smith sculpture as they do about behaving properly thur-sun nite. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 652
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 4:11 pm: |
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Really? They were 'told' by me? Or...Let's try - I sent out an email and instant messages that explained the situation concerning the TS sculpture. Be careful of what you say as I don't like misinformation being perpetuated. Thanks. |
FlyingSpaghettiMonst
Citizen
Username: Noodlyappendage
Post Number: 56
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 4:28 pm: |
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Ok Sheena, maybe you are right. You didn't tell them. Suggest?to them Leave it open for them to make a decision? What did you say in your emails and ims? I am truly curious. |
Sitoyan
Citizen
Username: Sitoyan
Post Number: 166
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 5:47 pm: |
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Yes Sheena, post here copies of your e-mails and ims to the students. That shouldn't be a problem, should it? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 250
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 5:59 pm: |
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FSM, even if SHU students accidentally listed their home addresses, if they are registered to vote in SO elections, their signatures count. As for you picking on Sheena about her message, how many people who voted for the current VP know what is going on with the sculpture, numerous stopped developments and their drag on town revenues, lost opportunities of other businesses that won't locate here, rising taxes and debt burden of the town? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 251
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 6:04 pm: |
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Sitoyan, Sheena is not the problem here. Regardless of what Sheena wrote to students in her emails, they are not her slaves and if they are of legal age to vote, the country deems them capable of making up their own minds. That is what the BOT needs to keep in mind when it votes to stop the sculpture. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 653
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 6:04 pm: |
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No, it's definitely not a problem. But I don't feel that I have to justify any correspondence I have with students until everyone who forwarded the petition out to other residents needs to post their correspondence as well.
This is simply an issue of principle for me - but you're more than welcome to contact any student on the petition  .
This is a prime example of why I asked MHD and the rest of MOL in advance if they would want students to engage themselves in the petition. But rest assured, they know the issues and our community editor for our student newspaper ran a story on it this past week.
I assume everyone else on the petition will get this level of interrogation and take a litmus test as to how much details they know about the issue as well. I look forward to a response. Thanks
Edited to Add: Thanks SORising.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 252
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 6:11 pm: |
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Bravo Sheena!! Act on principle. Many town leaders much older than you should learn from your example. It is the single most valuable contribution you, students or anyone else, could make to the town, especially now, when it doesn't know how to stand up for itself or where its best interests truly lie. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 821
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 10:10 pm: |
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Sheena for VP!  |
Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 3364
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 10:14 pm: |
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Keep them honest Sheena |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4614
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
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Maybe you could post a copy of the article your Community Editor wrote. I'm sure Lucy, Pdg, and SOrising as well as the rest of us would love to see it! Thanks! |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 656
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:02 am: |
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JTA - here ya go
Thanks- SOrising, pdg, and Lucy.
As you can see from the article - it is reasonably balanced and provides directives to where students can get more information....
I was contacted by the assistant news editor after I sent out information to the students and then provided the community editor with the email addresses of all the trustees as well as the author of the petition and directed her to this message board for any more background information. I don't mean to make this a hot mess but comments regarding what I say to students leads me to believe these are questions regarding my integrity, so I don't mean to be defensive.
Debate in S.O. about art piece
by Caity Fodor
Community Editor
fodorcat@shu.edu
A online petition began early this week to prevent the South Orange Board of Trustees from spending tax dollars on a piece of art slated to be put down by the train station on Sloan Street. As of March 29, 198 residents and Seton Hall students have signed the petition.
The petition addresses taxpayers, asking for help in preventing a $500,000 sculpture from being funded by taxpayer dollars.
“Do you want your tax dollars to pay for expensive art, while art education is being eliminated from our schools?” the petition asks.
The petition also points out this decision was made by the Board of Trustees without public discussion.
According to Board of Trustee member Eric DeVaris, this is a controversy that began eight years ago when artists in town grouped together to remember the life and work of artist Tony Smith, who resided in South Orange his entire life. Smith’s estate gave the group the right to reproduce one of his sculptures for South Orange and the group approached the government about it.
“The trustees discussed it and said they’d find some way to finance that,” DeVaris said.
DeVaris said the project has progressed since then and was brought to residents’ attention at a public meeting. Residents insist they hadn’t heard of the issue, however, DeVaris disagrees.
“The issue is in the minutes of one meeting where it was discussed, but the public wasn’t there,” DeVaris said. “The public wasn’t interested; not many people were there.”
According to DeVaris, the project is going to cost $400,000, $250,000 of which will come out of municipal bonding. The remaining amount will be raised.
Despite the petition and comments from residents posted on message boards at www.southorangevillage.com, DeVaris said the project will continue because contracts have already been signed.
“If the government was to retract its decision which was done two years ago, they are going to break the contract with the people who are manufacturing the piece and that will end up in court and cost money,” DeVaris said. “There is no such wish from the Board of Trustees to change their mind.”
A concern among residents is there are many other projects in the community which need completion and to spend money on a piece of art is a waste.
Despite plans for the project to continue, DeVaris does acknowledge there are other projects in the community.
“The issue is that the government has committed itself to $250,000 in bonds when we’re paying such high taxes and there are different projects in town to be taken care of, such as conditions of public buildings,” DeVaris said.
For more information about the sculpture and minutes from Board of Trustees meetings, visit www.southorangevillage.com, and look for coverage in next week’s Setonian.
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonhw
Post Number: 105
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 6:36 am: |
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Sitoyan, I think we can agree to disagree. Eric and I have the same basic tenets but on these issues we disagree on the spending priorities and the source of funds.
I still would ask if Eric agrees to the location of the sculpture. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 307
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 6:57 am: |
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The Devaris opinion about lawsuits is a non-lawyer's opinion, and should not have beeen incorporated in the petition.
It is a mistake to put his opinion there, because the petition therefore
apppears to be endorsing it.
You should have informed that MOL has several strong opinions about the issues, including the legality of the deal, and let the students make up their minds after reading what interests them.
For example, SO doesn't have a contract with the people welding the work, and only if you read the deal will you appreciate that fact.
The copyright owner contracted with the builder.
jd |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 534
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 7:55 am: |
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Joel, the Village does have an agreement with "Lippincott" for the fabrication of the sculpture dated 2/20/06. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3825
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 8:16 am: |
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Quote:“The issue is in the minutes of one meeting where it was discussed, but the public wasn’t there,” DeVaris said. “The public wasn’t interested; not many people were there.”
This statement is outrageous. The correct statement should have been - the public wasn't INFORMED, or perhaps the public was LIED TO. Well, Eric, the public is interested NOW and we are furious. FYI...The ONLY meeting it was discussed at was a BUDGET WORKSHOP on a Wednesday night and it was not televised.
Why was Eric the only person quoted in the article? Most balanced articles present quotes from both "sides" of an issue.
Quote:“There is no such wish from the Board of Trustees to change their mind.”
I think THIS answers the question that started this thread. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4616
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:23 am: |
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MHD
I had emailed Sheena because I didn't want to appear as if I was attacking her. Since a couple of people have posted, I might as well throw in what some of what I emailed her. I asked why Mark wasn't spoken to. Eric wasn't a BOT member when the whole Tony Smith thing started, was he? Even worse, he is on that 'Advisory Committee' which to me makes his opinion biased.
Something else I think Eric got wrong. Tony Smith did not live n South Orange all his life, did he?
And last, I thought several of people who spoke at a recent BOT meeting said they searched the BOT Minutes back several years and could not find a public discussion of this project. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 260
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:40 am: |
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There are several inaccuracies in the article. Eric's information is not reliable. Another Trustee admits that the sculpture will cost $440,000 to $500,000 or more. Mark Rosner has admitted that the incrementalism in decision making by the BOT never identified the total costs for the sculpture.
People are angry enough about it that the reelection chances for any trustee who will not stop the sculpture are slim to nill. Many, many people will oppose them vigorously.
Whatever it might cost the town to stop the sculpture project now will still be less than going through with it. That is the cost of the trustees' mistakes. But this is something any trustee who has voted for it does not want anyone, including students and employees of Seton Hall who may vote in future municipal elections, to know. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 657
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
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I provided the reporter with all the necessary contact information - I don't know who she got responses from. It may have only been Eric.
I believe there will be a follow-up article. Trustee Rosner said that he had spoken with her so I assume more will come out. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 264
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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The reporter should check out Mark's blog essay. He or she can find it under one of these threads. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 309
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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Well, tell them to cease and desist, submit a bill, then pay the bill for services rendered, costs of metal, flux, costs and expenses, save us 200 thousand or more dollars in year one, and thousands more each year thereafter, and be done with it.
That's all.
Over and done with.
Good government thereafter.
Right?
jd |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3827
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:56 am: |
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Quote:Good government thereafter.
Did you just move here?  |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 78
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:37 pm: |
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Eric what say you now??? Oh You are very silent these days. |
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