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Message |
    
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 266
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:55 am: | 
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I'd like to know how many people who read this would sign a recall petition, be willing to collect signatures around town (train station, post office, door to door, etc.), and/or vote in an election to recall VP Calabrese.
Thanks. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3828
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
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As Lucy said in an earlier thread - hand me a pen. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 488
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:06 am: |
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If we're 18, a resident of South Orange...but not a taxpayer are we eligible to sign this?? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 269
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
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As long as you can vote, Glock 17, I think you can sign. Otherwise, they would violate your constitutional rights, as far as I know. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2798
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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I would not support the effort, but would vote. I think there are better things to spend our energy on, the recall would be a distraction, and it could alienate potential supporters on specific issues. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 270
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:51 am: |
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What would the recall distract from, Rastro? |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1147
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:52 am: |
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Where do I sign? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2799
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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SOrising, if you are going aroudn to people and telling them about he sculpture, but they support that, but are appalled by the situation downtown, you are diluting the message about the situation downtown. You can alienate someone by being overzealous about an issue that they actually don't agree with you about, and thereby make them reconsider things they do agree with you on. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 658
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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I concur with Rastro.
You have to make this about issues and not about people. In a recall - it is about people. Our best bet is to coordinate and start preparing for the upcoming year and I'm fully in support of that.
I think we should have a meeting somewhere to speak. Public message boards are a bit dangerous for obvious reasons, lol.
Let's have a MOL get together... I feel like such a party planner... anyone interested?  |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 621
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:04 pm: |
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Can a Village President be recalled?
I ask b/c I am not aware of any charter provision allowing for a recall.
The man obviously has some sway in town. He keeps getting elected.
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jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 75
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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Shenna I have to disagree with you. At some point the tax payers of this town need to send a message to the town government that enough is enough. A recall is a taxpayers and voters voice saying enough is enough. To sit and wait is weak. To compromise is weak.
And this is not a party it is not a joke. We do not need a get together. We do not need a party planner. We need a Government that works. I pay over $20,000 in taxes and I am sick of this crap. |
Erin Cartman
Citizen
Username: Carnac
Post Number: 47
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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I think BC would win a recall vote. So, I think waiting till the end of his term would be a better option. Trying to push him out before then would give supporters something to rally around.
On a seperate note, I do not think recalling him would solve any of the problems either. Did the majority of MOL not support Eric yet now we have a thread asking if his is good for government? So many things are already set that there is not much a new VP or even a new BOT could do. I understand the arguement that a year is a long time to wait and we do not know what they are capable of but, in the end a recall - successful or not - is not going to help.
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jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 76
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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Lets face it Eric is useless. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2800
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
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An unsuccessful recall could also galvanize supporters of tose we wish to remove. I cannot imagine we could even get enough petition signature, let alone people to show up at a recall election.
Jeep, Sheena is not making light of this, as you suggest. She is saying that having these discussions face to face, rather than anonymously on a PUBLIC message board might be a better way to strategize.
Do you really think a recall will occur? Do you think it would be possible to get the requisite number of signatures to put it on the ballot?
The only value I see to a recall attempt is to wake up the government that people care, and want to see change. But a failure (a spectacular failure) to unseat someone will only create more support for them in the future. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1672
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
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"If you're going to try to kill the king, be sure you succeed." |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 659
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:05 pm: |
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Jeep - relax... I think it's more important to get organizers together in advance to discuss issues in depth and with dialogue as oppose to posting on public message boards. Mobilization is key for any changes and us venting on MOL day after day does nothing at all...
If you want to do the recall petition, don't spend your time debating on MOL - head on out and get it started and best of luck to you. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 623
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:05 pm: |
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3 Dumb Decisions...
1) Attempt a half assed recall against the S.O. political machine.
2) Enter into a ground war in Asia.
3) Match wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line.
As you wish. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2803
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:17 pm: |
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 624
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
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nice! |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 77
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:31 pm: |
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what is the procedure for a recall? Can someone explain how it works? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 272
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:37 pm: |
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Rastro, I think a strategy could be found to bring people along and not to alienate them. In general, people would have to choose between bad leadership and any particular issue they may like which the VP happened to support. Even ardent supporters of the sculpture can acknowledge there has been a problem with the town's handling of it. And most people could see that if it weren't for the town's entrenched mistakes, many, many of them along the way, the town might have been able to have a sculpture without people being so unhappy with each other. But that is what real leadership is all about. The VP and the BOT bungles it, repeatedly, on a huge scale, and the town pays for it, repeatedly, at great costs, great human costs, not just financial ones.
Sheena, good governance, like ethics, is always and irreducibly a matter of people, first and last, because it is real people of flesh and blood who are entrusted with public office. Issues are what people talk about along the way to understand and decide what they want to become, what kind of people they want to represent or to lead them. Then they have to act to get the leaders they want or suffer the consequences. This town has suffered enough. And even though one of them, jeep, doesn't want a party, I love them and expect jeep would too, at the right time and place. In happier circumstances, he might even admire your ebullience as much as I do.
Matt Foley, MHD published on another thread the provisions for recalling a member of the BOT. The VP is a member of the BOT. Yes, indeed, he has some sway in town and has gotten elected repeatedly. He is a formidable opponent. But not an indefatigable nor an unsuperable one. And finally, I would never do anything this important half-assed. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 273
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:43 pm: |
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Sheena, you have a point about talking much further on MOL. I'm going to check a few things and get back about this.
But I still need a reading from people. Please do continue to repond to my original post.
Thanks. |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 79
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:49 pm: |
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I see it this way, start a recall make a ton of noise and wake up the residents that have been sleeping. I am amazed at how many people are totally unaware of the financial inaccuracies with the tony smith and SOPAC when you mention it. Enough is Enough.
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1485
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:56 pm: |
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More detailed discussion of this in the "538 thousand" thread |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 825
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:01 pm: |
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What on earth can Bill Calabrese say to his "supporters" to defend his performance against the FACTS?
I think a recall could achieve a lot of things that waiting for the next election won't. In no particular order:
* It would send a very serious message to the rest of the BOT, some of whom may not run for reelection when their term is up and would prefer to "choose" to not run vs. risk not being relected - they could save face a bit. "Shape up, or ship out!"
* It would taint Mr. Calabrese's "legacy," which I believe some have claimed he is trying to burnish with all this SOPAC and Sculpture business. He still claims "successes" as if all is going according to his wonderful "vision"! People who don't know better believe it!
* It likely would WAKE-UP those registered voters who have not bothered to vote - it being unusual, rather than just another local election, would draw attention to the issues and could get more voters to turn out for future elections and pay more attention to what is happening with their tax dollars!
* It might also WAKE-UP the status-quo buddies of Bill who have turned out to relect him in the past. They would be forced to THINK about the charges against their good 'ol pal and may, in the secrecy of a ballot machine, pull a lever for a better candidate for a change!
* If we just wait till another election, Bill may "choose" not to run and "retire" as king of the dirt pile, and the opportunity to wake up the sleepy taxpayers of this town may slip by.
I agree, to be effective we'd need a solid list of reasons and a "Script" of talking points to get the gist across to our voting neighbors who haven't been paying attention. We can't take too much of someone's time with too much information or they'll stop caring again and walk away.
I bet I could get at least 10 signatures, but I don't want to make up what I say the reasons are. Everyone involved would have to all be behind the same message. We definitely should look hard at any NJ communities that were successful in recalling an elected official and learn from their successes and mistakes. (Is there such a thing as a consultant for something like this? Let's be sure we don't make the same mistakes as the BOT has by not obtaining professional input if it is available!)
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Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 826
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:04 pm: |
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Jeep, I was busily composing my post and hadn't seen yours until after mine had posted. Great minds think alike!  |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 625
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:05 pm: |
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Rising, no indictment of your character was intended. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 275
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:16 pm: |
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Matt Foley, no indictment assumed. My assurance was given freely, not as a defense.
Pdg, all good points. A statement of reasons for the recall could be agreed on by those working on it. Something persuasive should not be hard to craft, given the number of offenses. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1675
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:28 pm: |
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You could probably get two thousand signatures in a matter of days in August when people receive their tax bills. This is all about "Diamond Bill." |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 82
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:32 pm: |
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I bet you could easily get 2000 signatures this month. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4618
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 8:40 pm: |
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Glock
>>>If we're 18, a resident of South Orange...but not a taxpayer are we eligible to sign this??<<<
I would think so... |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4619
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 8:47 pm: |
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I have to check the Daily Record (Morris County's equivalent of the Star Ledger) for the articles about the recall going on there. I can't remember what town it's happening in, but I do remember reading about one recently. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4620
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:14 pm: |
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I just did a search and the are actually two towns in Morris County trying to recall an elected offical. Mount Olive is trying to recall Mayor De La Roche and
East Hanover is trying to recall Mayor William Agnellino. If you do a "Google" you'll come up with a few pages of results. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4621
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:14 pm: |
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I just did a search and there are actually two towns in Morris County trying to recall an elected offical. Mount Olive is trying to recall Mayor De La Roche and
East Hanover is trying to recall Mayor William Agnellino. If you do a "Google" you'll come up with a few pages of results. |
FlyingSpaghettiMonst
Citizen
Username: Noodlyappendage
Post Number: 57
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:31 pm: |
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Mayor William Agnelino of East Hanover is our own Billy of The Reservoir fame. Wonmder what the issues are/ |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3833
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:42 pm: |
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East Hanover recall attempt is just getting under way: 1,991 signatures required by August.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060309/NEWS01/603090331/ 1005/ARCHIVES
Quote:A 200-word statement that accompanied the recall petition said the mayor is "rude, demeaning and insulting to anyone who disagrees with him."
The statement also blamed the mayor for increased taxes.
Marmon said there are broader grievances that would galvanize others in town to sign on to the recall petition.
Agnellino also has faced criticism from members of the business community upset over the creation of a special improvement district.
rude....increased taxes...creation of a SID....
Sounds awfully familiar!! |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3834
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:53 pm: |
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Mount Olive recall in 2005 failed when not enough signatures were obtained:
http://www.news12.com/NJ/in_depth/article?id=136323
Quote:An effort by critics to remove Mount Olive Mayor Richard De La Roche from office fell short Monday when organizers failed to acquire enough signatures by the 4:30 p.m. deadline.
Recall organizers collected 3,300 signatures, 400 short of the amount needed to initiate a special election for a new mayor. De La Roche believes the movement’s failure is a mandate by the people.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4622
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 12:07 am: |
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Flying-
My sister just told me the same thing. I now feel bad as he is a really nice guy! My family has eaten there many times and have always been very happy with the service and food. |
joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 331
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 6:52 am: |
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A New Sign for South Orange - Recall-abrese.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2808
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 10:53 am: |
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MHD, this is my biggest concern:
Quote:De La Roche believes the movement’s failure is a mandate by the people.
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Erin Cartman
Citizen
Username: Carnac
Post Number: 49
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 2:35 am: |
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Rasto: Exactly! |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 22923
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 3:22 pm: |
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I fully support a recall drive and volunteer my evenings and weekends to such an effort. Its focus should spotlight the persistent ineptness of those in charge of South Orange. Even if unsuccessful, it will wake a lot of people up in time for May 2007.
Or, as I said, "smack silly:"
http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3133&post=573724#POST5737 24
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4656
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 2:51 am: |
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A friend of mine got their hands on a packet for a recall. It's 40 something pages! She also informed me there are very specific steps for a recall you must follow or you can be sued. In addition it cost about $2000 just to file the papers. I cn't make it to the BOT meeting tomorrow, but someone is welcome to pick it up from my house. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 278
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 6:52 am: |
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$2,000 is nothing, JTA, compared to the tens of millions the town is losing in numerous halted, unfinished construction sites and the alienation of well-managed, prosperous businesses which won’t locate in the town because of them and the poor town management they represent. As for the “threat” of being sued, if it originates from the town’s legal workshop, it is hard to imagine it would amount to much. The town frequently attempts, and sometimes succeeds, in vigorously pursuing blatant illegalities, even when it is repeatedly warned not to. Its contracts habitually do a better job of protecting the other side than the town itself. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4660
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 9:34 am: |
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I agree with you about the $2000 being nothing compared to what the town has lost and will loose in the future if things continue to be as they have for the past ten plus years. Who though will lay out the two grand? I'd be happy to toss some money in the pot! As I said, I can't make the meeting but I'd be happy to give the papers to someone. I'm on my way to pick them up now. Then have to go to physical theraphy. After that, well I can meet up with who ever wants them. |
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