| Author |
Message |
    
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 583
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 10:45 pm: | 
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Isn't Sterling Properties the supposed developer of the Shop Rite site? I looked at Sterling's website, and they list "The Avenue at South Orange...Coming Soon in 2006". Really?
http://www.sterlingpropertiesnj.com/sterling-upcoming-communities.asp
As I peruse the website, they appear to be a developer of residential properties exclusively. i didn't see a single mention of any commerical spaces. Wasn't the supermarket supposed to drive this project? It doesn't appear that way to me. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 347
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 8:17 am: |
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Ask the BOT for a definitive answer.
jd |
kmk
Supporter
Username: Kmk
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 9:03 am: |
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The website goes on to list "The Avenue at South Orange" as a future Townhome development.
We should get on their "I am interested" mailing list just to know what is happening. |
Cali6buff
Citizen
Username: Cali6buff
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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I'm new to town, and I think I've got my address to hole-in-the-ground chart under control. I'm wondering what the status of the empty building to the left of Wachovia on SO Ave is, and why it's never mentioned? I think it's the biggest eyesore of all.
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Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 115
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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That empty building to the left of Wachovia is the old shoprite. the hole in the ground is the old shoprite liquors. you are very correct that it is the biggest eyesore of all. welcome to sorange! |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 406
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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That building is the Old Shoprite space - slated to be renovated into a new gourmet-styled market with lofts above it. It is now known as the New Market site. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 351
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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Slated to be renovated seven years ago.
Eyesore since then, althought the vulgar graffiti at train platform level was painted over months ago.
Blights downtown, forever.
Elections next year.
jd |
Cali6buff
Citizen
Username: Cali6buff
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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I guess my chart needs some work. And the hole on Vose is going to be...? |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3874
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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Cali6,
That building was purchased by the Village in 2001 and has been empty since. For many years, it had a sign in the window saying "Gourmet Market...Coming Soon". So, for many people is it known as the "Coming Soon" Market.
It is actually frequently mentioned here on MOL and is part of the same project as the "pit" around the corner on Vose Avenue. |
Cali6buff
Citizen
Username: Cali6buff
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:49 am: |
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I didn't realize the Vose hole and that empty building were part of the same project.
Thanks for clearing it up for me. |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 116
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:49 am: |
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ths hole on vose is supposedly going to be high end condos with retail space below |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3875
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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The empty building is "supposed" to be turned into a new Supermarket. The Vose hole is "supposed" to become retail stores at ground level & condos above.
Both are "supposed" to share a single parking deck behind them, where the surface parking lot is now.
We've been told this by the town government for the past five years and counting, so don't plan on shopping there anytime soon. |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 407
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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I think the term "hole" or "pit" diminishes the size of the canyon leftover from the Flat Iron Building demo. In fact, I could have sworn I saw a guided mule ride down into it yesterday. |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 408
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
|
 |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3876
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:16 pm: |
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LOL! Maybe the guided mule rides in the canyon will be the next attraction in town to entertain the thousands of tourists that be flocking here to view Tau. |
Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 3436
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:22 pm: |
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and the Seton Hall students that we are building it for??  |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 634
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 2:25 pm: |
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I told my kids that the hole was the entrance to Goblin Town. (Hobbit Animated movie c.1978). "Down, down to goblin town below." |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 293
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 4:55 pm: |
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Graphics can really focus the mind. Makes me wonder if anyone could publish one, an aerial of the town, with each coming soon pit identified or labelled?
Consider people's reactions when they first saw Tau where the dead gazebo and fountain are now. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3922
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 8:39 am: |
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SORising,
Like this?
 |
Bailey
Citizen
Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 250
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 8:55 am: |
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um.. that photo is VERY old..
there actually HAS been some progress since it was taken, imagine that!
SOPAC is almost done, but it's shown as a parking lot in that pic, and it looks like the Beifus building and parking lot are still there. As bad as that looked, it looked better then, than for the last several years. Even the Shop Rite parking lot is busy.
In fact, in that photo, South Orange looks like a busy, propserous town!
Ah, the good old days. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3923
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 9:12 am: |
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Bailey,
I was going to launch my own satellite to take a more recent picture, but with a 13.5% tax increase, I couldn't afford it and had to rely on Google maps.  |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 314
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:40 am: |
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Thanks, MHD. Incredible. If there is any way to block out each pit in bright (lighter) red (with contrasting label) or something like that, it would highlight it more. (I know nothing about these kinds of graphics, so have no idea how difficult this might be.) The first time I looked, I almost missed the Sayid pit.
Your graphic just made me realize, however, that quite honestly, without exaggeration, there are so many pits downtown, I don't have a good sense of what is actually there. I try to get oriented when driving by, but it is hard, it is truly disorienting to have shops, then blanks, then more shops, then blanks. I literally can't get a sense of downtown when I drive through it. Even though I try to buy things locally, it is hard to get fixed in your mind what is really down there. Maybe its better for people on foot. But there are so many potential customers from outside of SO who drive through town for whom this disorientation must be even worse. The effect may be to make businesses there invisible to them. Its an intolerable injustice. I'm amazed the businesses there can hang on as they have.
At the very least, the town should print up a promotional pamphlet with a graphic of downtown businesses and have them next to the clerk's office in village hall, the train station, realtors' offices, other places to counteract the damage from the swiss cheese of pits. |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 3514
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:07 am: |
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But wait, the town visionaries now want to slap the existing businesses with a sid. Could someone tell them for me to all take a blooming hike! |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 151
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 5:29 pm: |
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Thank you. Yes, with all the problems our local businesses have to tolerate, you can add one more. This coming Monday, April 24 at 6:45 in Village Hall, we have to give public input into the effort to persuade our BoT not to impose a SID.
WOULD YOU ALL PLEASE COME OUT AND SUPPORT US??? |
Bailey
Citizen
Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 251
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 8:18 pm: |
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Highlighted..
 |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 601
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 8:23 pm: |
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It looks like Sterling has its own "Gaslight." Take a look at the Spring 2006 Sterling newsletter. I didn't know South Orange had an urban center. And apparently Sterling has a "vision" too. I wonder if they know about the VP's vision.
http://www.sterlingpropertiesnj.com/sterling-newsletters.asp |
JoRo
Citizen
Username: Autojoe51
Post Number: 106
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 8:56 pm: |
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I hope Sterling is working closely with Main Street South Orange to ensure that the facades and materials are of high quality -- meaning corners not being cut on windows and doors, external fixtures, brick and stone, roofing materials, etc. I notice that there are very few external shots of buildings on their site. Yet our downtown is "public" in more senses than a private or gated residential community would be. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 316
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 9:37 pm: |
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Thanks, Bailey. Your graphic helps enormously. Beifus is HUMONGOUS!! Don't the Vose and Shop Rite properties connect or aren't they supposed to? I've heard a lot about easements and a tangled jumble of Verizon cables for one or both. Now that I can see it, would someone who knows please explain it?
I would love to see a comparative fact sheet listing each property with information like start date, proposed project, PILOT received, revenues, if any, when they have been projected to kick into town's revenues, etc., projected deficits if they don't come through.
And to think the Beifus construction manager lied under oath to the planning board and they did not send him or his boss packing!! Which trustees are officially on the planning board?
What about a graphic and fact sheet for Valley and any place else there are Already-Arrived or Coming-Soon pits? |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 603
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:18 pm: |
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Calabrese and Taylor are on the Planning Board. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3932
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
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Great graphic, Bailey.
I just got back from the Springsteen concert and the following song (originally written for Asbury Park) seems appropriate for South Orange:
My City Of Ruins
There is a blood red circle
On the cold dark ground
And the rain is falling down
The church door's thrown open
I can hear the organ's song
But the congregation's gone
My city of ruins
My city of ruins
Now the sweet bells of mercy
Drift through the evening trees
Young men on the corner
Like scattered leaves,
The boarded up windows,
The empty streets
While my brother's down on his knees
My city of ruins
My city of ruins
Come on, rise up! Come on, rise up!
Come on, rise up! Come on, rise up!
Come on, rise up! Come on, rise up!
Now's there's tears on the pillow
Darlin' where we slept
And you took my heart when you left
Without your sweet kiss
My soul is lost, my friend
Tell me how do I begin again?
My city's in ruins
My city's in ruins
Now with these hands,
With these hands,
With these hands,
I pray Lord
With these hands,
With these hands,
I pray for the strength, Lord
With these hands,
With these hands,
I pray for the faith, Lord
We pray for your love, Lord
We pray for the lost, Lord
We pray for this world, Lord
We pray for the strength, Lord
We pray for the strength, Lord
Come on
Come on
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up
Come on, rise up |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 214
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 8:35 am: |
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My Town Planning
I plan to be somebody, to be really big someday,
I plan to own this little town, to have things all my way
I plan to buy the buildings, each and every one,
But when people see I have them all, by the the deal is done
I plan to make this fine town a hole, where no one wants to be
I'll make it dirty and unloved, a site (sorry!) to really see
I plan it all with my good friends, we work the details out
We know the loopholes, we know the rules, of that there is no doubt
I plan to raze this little town, to take its last fine breath
My plan has no place for history, my future is all that's left
My plan is, my ignorant one, really very simple
I buy you cheap, I stall your plans, Beifus - for example
My plan is then when I own you all, when your very soul is mine
"Hoorah" "wow look" the work gets done, this town is once again fine
My plan will work, because no-one sees the damage I inflict
either that, or no-one cares, as I buy you bit by bit
"Buy low sell high" is my lifelong creed, I chant it every day
As I decide to crush this town, it's the residents who will pay
When I own enough of this sad old town, when I know the time is right,
the plans in place will all come to be, they will happen overnight
So then i'll be somebody, I'll be rolling in the green
I'll have so much money, more than you've ever seen
When people come to my creation, they will look my way and say
"Here's the one who made this all, he had the vision, he saw the way"
So I don't care how bad you feel, you are simply in my way
Unless you vote and state your mind, you really have nothing to say..
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Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 3509
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 9:50 am: |
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Sad but true ... |
phd6786
Citizen
Username: Phd6786
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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but by the time you catch-up I'll be off
spending your dollars in Dusseldorf
|
kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 683
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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SORising: In regards to Bailey's upgrade to MHD's map...It points out the locations of the projects in question, but is very wrong as to the size of the properties. The SOPAC and Tau are correct. My machine crashes when I try to get maps from Google, so I'll try to describe what is wrong instead of posting a new overhead.
The Beifus plot is larger than what is represented. The building to the left of the block was torn down and that property should be included in red. Also the red does not go far enough back. It doesn't show how close to the pool the property really is. The building on the back right of the property shown in the overhead is gone as well - this is part of the Beifus property.
The Shoprite/Vose property is also *much* larger than what is shown on the map and is larger than the Beifus site. All of the property isn't even shown on that map...The whole parking lot that you see should be included. The whole "pit" is not highlighted. what is missing is the Shoprite Liquor building.
Sayid's property is not large enough either. You might also want to include the buildings that he owns to the corner of Church St since they will probably be torn down as well in the not too distant future...
Hope that made sense. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 320
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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Unfortunately, it does make sense, kevin. I am floored. Unbelievable.
Bailey, MHD, any possibility of an enhanced graphic when you could get to it?
Its amazing to see these in this way. I am nearly speechless. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 321
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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jayjay, (or anyone), did anyone ever find out who writes and lays out the Gaslight for the village? At one BOT meeting, the town administrator only said that it was "someone in the community" or something like that, suggesting it was never bid on either. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 216
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
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On the bottom of one Gaslight is says if you want to submit stuff write to "Editor, Robin Patric, C/O Village Hall" |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3939
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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The Gaslight is "edited" by Robin Patric(I do not know who that is), according to the "credits" printed on the last page of Gaslight.
http://www.southorange.org/Gaslight/2006/March.pdf |
Bailey
Citizen
Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 253
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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I've revised the graphic a bit, but I'm not sure how big Sayid's project will be.
Is this closer?
 |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 416
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
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Maybe you should zoom out a little bit and add in THD, the Gulf station and the lot adjacent to it. |
Bailey
Citizen
Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 255
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
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Not sure my computer has enough memory for all that red!
I could continue past the Gulf station and add all of the west side of Valley Street up to the park at 4th street too.
Hasn't there been some progress at THD? I'm not sure what's going on there. Has work stopped? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 322
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:39 pm: |
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Thanks Bailey. Amazing.
But how many more of these pits are there? What is THD? Are the Vose property and Shop Rite marketed as one, now?
Anyone with more memory to help Bailey out? We should get each and every pit mapped. |
kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 684
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:40 pm: |
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I don't have time to do the whole downtown, but here are both the Beifus and Shoprite sites. The property boundries don't match up exact, but it gives you an idea as to the scope of both projects and how many lots will be combined.
Shoprite: Block 1909 Lots 1,2,3,8,9
Beifus: Block 1904 Lots 6,7,8,9,10
Let me know if someone finds something incorrect here...
 |
Bailey
Citizen
Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 256
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:52 pm: |
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Very cool..
Maybe I'll play with colors later!
SOrising.. THD is Town Hall Deli, former Midas shop on Valley Street, under construction now, with slow progress. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 323
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 9:40 am: |
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Great kevin. Combining your work with Bailey's would produce highly accurate and easily readable graphics. Each are enlightening now. Thanks very much for taking the time to do them. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 565
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
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Kevin/Bailey, can you add the properties along Valley and Third Street that the Village currently owns (Gulf Station and Old Car Dealership) as well as Town Hall Deli (Old Midas). |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 609
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:42 am: |
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And can you add Saiyd's parcels on W. South Orange Ave, which comprise lots 17, 17.01, 18, 19, 20 and 25, and lots 10 and 46-48 on Church St, all of block 1902? |
Sitoyan
Citizen
Username: Sitoyan
Post Number: 167
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:51 am: |
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... and send your bill to me. |
Crazy_quilter
Citizen
Username: Crazy_quilter
Post Number: 268
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 1:44 pm: |
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and could you add old stone house? |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 325
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 1:59 pm: |
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Please don't add the Old Stone House since it is not a development site as all the others are. There are plenty of them without adding historic sites to them as well. |
Crazy_quilter
Citizen
Username: Crazy_quilter
Post Number: 269
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 5:22 pm: |
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I was just thinking the osh was something our town needs to spend money on that looks pretty sad. but i guess we could go crazy and add the curbs in front of my house... |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 396
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 6:00 pm: |
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You are describing what would be self-explanatory, and excellent, campaign material.
jd |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 238
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
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Don't forget to add the Prescription Counter. |
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