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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 559
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 2:24 pm: | 
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Michael Brant: I posted the SID question as a point for discussion nor do I agree that this is what is needed currently or a solution to the problems. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3907
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 3:11 pm: |
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http://www.southorange.org/articles.asp?articleID=132
April 18, 2006
Two Public Meetings for SID Ordinance Scheduled
The Township of South Orange Village has scheduled two special Planning & Zoning Committee meetings at which residents, business owners and other stakeholders will have the opportunity to provide their input regarding the creation of a Special Improvement District (SID).
The first meeting is scheduled for Monday, April 24th at 6:45 pm in Village Hall, and the second meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, May 17th at 7:00 pm in Village Hall.
We hope that all interested parties will attend.
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michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 202
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 4:38 pm: |
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Howard I am confused. You said-Don't worry there is a solution about to happen
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 560
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:21 pm: |
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Tongue in cheek |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 146
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:42 pm: |
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Litter is a cultural/social problem. There are too many persons with no respect for others or for the environment, so they litter. However, like all other "crimes," littering is punishable under our municipal and state statutes and ordinances.
The person(s) who produce litter should be penalized, not the rest of the world. Every time there is a social problem, there is a knee jerk reaction to collect money from innocent people to cure the ills of society.
When the Sloan Street area is littered, it is caused by several reasons, not the least of which is the fact that hundreds of commuters, school children, and intense traffic all pass by this location on a daily, virtually non stop basis. Our we victims of our own success?
The local government could do many things to correct the problem. I recommend a committee to discuss and come up with suggestions for the Sloan Street area only. The landlord who received a generous loan from the Village in the amount of $500,000 to do the renovations should be involved, along with the tenants, employees, student leaders, and other interested persons or organizations, such as Main Street and the Chamber of Commerce, and all the local community groups. We have a lot of brains in this community, let's take advantage and brainstorm together. Perhaps the municipal court could assign people who are punished with community service with the task of some litter clean up.
It is a terrible idea to use this social problem as an excuse to impose another tax on an already overburdened business community. Who is responsible for this terrible idea? To me, the "solution" of imposition of such a tax for the purpose of litter control is as lazy as the bums who leave their trash for someone else to clean up. Furthermore, it will not result in a cure.
One day at the Exxon station I saw a man casually throw out his papers from his car window as his car was being filled with gas. I told him I witnessed what he had done and that his garbage would have to be picked up by him or by me, his choice. Surprisingly, he opened his car door and picked it up, and of course, he glared at me with an angry face. Typical.
As part of the social order, we are all responsible to some extent to enforce our laws, in the way social taboos keep us in order.
If he had not complied, I would have filed a report with the local municipal court. Fortunately, that did not happen. But are the rest of you willing to take measures to enforce laws already in existence? If not, please do not make innocent merchants pay to do it for you. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 306
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:19 pm: |
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Enforcement is the simplest and most obvious way to deal with the litter problem. The police should be asked to visit Sloan Street on foot during times when the litter is suspected of occurring. They could start issuing warnings and then tickets. Fines should be raised as high as it takes to deter the littering.
Trustee Rosner, why couldn't the police be asked to do this immediately? If the ordinances need to be stiffened, do so. It is a gross overreaction to impose a SID before simple enforcement and systematic sweeps and deterrence is attempted. If the police worked with citizens, as Elaine just described, it would increase the enforcement ability of the town greatly. Maybe it could be a volunteer project of one or another student groups at SHU to have some of them watch in the parking lots near Sloan Street and record license plate numbers of perpetrators. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a small group of repeat offenders. |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 333
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:44 pm: |
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Isn't Short Hills only a section of Millburn Township???
Does Short Hills have some sort of semi-governing body that does exists within that township? Just curious since it gets referenced a lot. |
Kitchenguru
Citizen
Username: Kitchenguru
Post Number: 65
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:08 pm: |
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Old and Gray
FYI on Short Hills
Millburn is a township located in Essex County, New Jersey. As of the United States 2000 Census, the township had a total population of 19,765. Millburn Township was created by an act of the New Jersey Legislature on March 20, 1857.
Millburn also includes the hamlet of Short Hills. Millburn is comprised of the historic Wyoming district, and South Mountain and Millburn Center areas. Short Hills contains the sections of Knollwood, Glenwood, Brookhaven, Country Club, Merrywood, Deerfield-Crossroads, Mountaintop, White Oak Ridge, and Old Short Hills Estates.
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1508
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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Camera phone...post pictures of those who drop their household trash and run. Either here or in your window. I bet the incidence would go down quickly!
(said only half in jest) |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 147
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 8:55 am: |
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There is an article in today's Star Ledger about the terrible litter problem along our coastline beaches and into the ocean. At Sandy Hook they conducted a study and counted the plastic bottle tops, sandwich wrappers, etc. The numbers were daunting. Maybe someone can post a link to that article. A lot of the litter comes from storm sewer drains which are emptied into waterways. We are garbage makers. People throw wrappers from candy out of their car windows as though the world was one large garbage pail. This is a huge problem and it must be addressed, but we need to do it intelligently and not simply by placing "blame" on a merchant. |
Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 151
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 9:05 am: |
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Even though litter is a problem, I would hate to see the SOPD be taxed any more than they are. These are professional Officers who have earned a certain degree of respect through their commitment and training. Subject them and tax dollars towards litter patrol seems ugly. I certainly understand a police officer enforcing the law if he/she were to observe the actual crime (just as any other crime)but do not want to diminish the role they play and respect they deserve.
I like the idea of volunteers. Perhaps the the Lion, Club, The Elks, The K of C, Middle/High Schoolers, Fraternities/Sororities at SHU would be interested in "adopting" areas of SO to care for? Certainly not a permanent solution though. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1511
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 9:32 am: |
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Sean, I have to disagree.
Our professional officers chose to take jobs in an upper middle-class suburban town, rather than a poor urban area. If they have capacity beyond crime control, some of it should certainly be directed to the quality of life violations that endanger us or lower the quality of our lives. This may include U-turns on Sloan Street, litter control, telling kids to wear bike helmets, etc.
I'm all for sane prioritization of what needs their focus, but don't tell me that our local police are such professionals that they shouldn't even be asked to focus on certain minor violations. I have more respect for professionals that deliver against all aspects of their jobs (including the boring) than for those who only want to do the "sexy" parts. |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 149
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 9:34 am: |
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The police department enforcement is just a part of the solution. Complaints can be filed by citizens, too. It could be made easy by e-mail, for example, to encourage it.
About 20 years ago we sought to relieve the police of the burdensome duties of issuing parking tickets, and as a result we got the "Parking Authority." Please don't tell me you want to create the "Litter Authority" as yet another autonomous agency. On the other hand, maybe we do.
Ticketing litterers is AN EXCELLENT way to increase revenue for the village. I would not like to see that revenue used just for another agency and its salaries. The police in Hoboken create revenue for the city by ticketing near the tunnels, and there are always speed traps in Kearney on 280, for example.
Sean, your idea of other groups "adopting" areas is GREAT! FYI: JESPY "adopted" the train station several years ago. They would proudly support any group that adopts an area. I have noticed it seems to work along highways where celebrities "adopt" a mile as their responsibility. Your idea is just one example of what can be produced if we all brainstorm for a solution, and not just take the knee jerk SID punishment approach, which will not solve the problem and is doomed to fail. |
Kitchenguru
Citizen
Username: Kitchenguru
Post Number: 68
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 11:03 am: |
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How about a street mounted sign: "No Littering, Punishable by $250.00 Fine"
Very prominently placed on Sloan Street, the supposed model for our future downtown? |
Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 152
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
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Post "No Littering" signs on the Tau. |
michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 203
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 11:50 am: |
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Elaine are you kidding! Jespy adopted the train station a few years ago? The sign that sits in the piles of pigeon waste is disgusting! What has Jespy done for the conditions of the train station? The outside is filthy. Covered in Crap and littered with garbage. What does ADOPTED mean?
The answer is quite simple. Have the police warn or ticket anyone who litters.
Tell the owner of Cold Stone, Cait and Abbey and Starbucks to get out there and pick up the trash left behind. Tell the owner of Cold Stone to get a hose and clean the sidewalk of the remains of the ice cream that is often left behind.
If we allow these people to continue it will only get worse as the weather gets warmer. These 3 businesses along with Dunkin Donuts make a living from this town. Let them start showing some respect for the town. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 379
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
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There also should be more garbage receptacles.
Cans, and cops.
jd |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 311
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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A litter authority sounds excessive. But what about the parking authority handling it? What about Main Street?
I think using enforcement to raise money is also an excellent idea. Let the offenders pay their fair share for clean up and enhancing the area. Money from fines should be put in a special fund to help improve the area where the littering occurred. Depending on how much money we are talking about, I might even go so far as to suggest setting a certain percentange aside, investing it, continuing this practice going forward, allowing the principal to grow a few years before drawing any down, then drawing down only enough that would allow the fund to increase a little above inflation each year. The birth of a downtown development fund?
If the initial fine is $250, the second offense should be $350, the third $500, etc., or some other stiff graduated scale. |
michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 204
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
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SOrising the the use of enforcement is to fix the problem not to raise money. I would hope between Cold Stone, Cait and Abbey, Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts getting out there and picking up their trash and a few tickets being issues the problem would be corrected. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1699
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Guru's suggestion reminded me of something that I've seen in Florda. In some communities, paticularly near parking areas and other public areas, there are signs posted which offer a reward to anyone who is responsible for turning in a litterer. My guess is that the threat alone is enough to stop a lot of would-be litterers.
The adopt-a-spots have been used in numerous towns in N.J. My guess is that they would be very successful in SO, since the overwhelming majority of residents in SO value how the town looks and would be willing to participate in cleaning up their adopted spot.
South Orange was just awarded $12,000 under the Clean Communities Program. Perhaps this could be used for an anti-litter campaign.
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michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 205
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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I have a question. The movie theater is soon to open. This will bring hundreds if not thousands of people to town on a daily basis. What has the town gov't done to prepare for the increase in pedestrian traffic and obviously litter? |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1700
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:55 pm: |
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michael's question is quite valid.
I don't know if SOM has any type of anti-litter programs in the schools. If not, they're a good place to start. I think you can get someone from the state to come in and explain why litter is bad for the environment. |
michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 206
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
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This is how I look at it. If we are unable to control the current trash problem how are we going to control it once the movie opens? And my guess is there is not a plan in place to control the litter issue that will be caused by the thousands of people coming to see a movie! |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 150
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:06 pm: |
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Michael Brant: While your heart is in the right place, once again, the store keepers are not "thy brother's keepers." Once the sale is made, they have no control over where the goods travel. What if the customer takes the coffee in the car and tosses the cup out on the NJTurnpike? Should Starbucks follow with a broom?
Ideologically, we must become responsible for our own behavior and not make other people responsible.
About JESPY, they have done clean ups many times. It is a start, and their intentions were in the right place. No other group has even started. Obviously, the problem is very overwhelming. However, you also have to distinguish between litter from human beings as opposed to bird droppings, or "pidgeon waste." We can not file complaints against the birds. That is a different category and it was never intended (for health reasons) for Jespy clients to clean up that part of the problem.
In my opinion, bird droppings should be cleaned up by NEW JERSEY TRANSIT, THE SO DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS, or some other official source.
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michael brant
Citizen
Username: Mbrant
Post Number: 207
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:18 pm: |
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Elaine first I was not asking the owner of Cold Stone to get in his car and search the town for garbage from his store. I think they could and should walk around the sloan street area and pick up the garbage. It is not like someone leaving a box from Bunnys pizza on the bench and blaming the owners for not picking it up. This is obviously not a continuing problem. But hundreds of people buy coffee and ice cream daily and some choose to leave the remains of their treat on the ground, wall or benches in the area. Consider it a expanded use area of these local businesses and they should simply bus their table in this case the wall, benches and curb! If I owned the Cold Stone I would personally make sure that the area is left clean I would not want the bad press....bad business people make bad business decisions. And it is clearly a bad business decision not to pick up the trash littering the town that puts food on your table.
Your comments on Jespy well noted. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1798
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:27 pm: |
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Other businesses near Cold Stone, Starbucks and Dunkin clearly benefit from their presence. Those three alone probably generate the biggest chunk of foot traffic downtown, and (ill-advised though it may be) we still have a lot of retailers there who are relying on such traffic.
If the town wants a vibrant downtown business district, it's not unreasonable to say that the town should take on a greater burden in basic things like trash removal. Cold Stone should keep its store and the area in front of it clean, no question. But asking one of the few stable, successful, crowd-drawing businesses downtown to prowl around and see if its customers are littering.... well, haven't we already done enough to discourage downtown development?
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Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1701
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:28 pm: |
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Millburn has a Cold Stone, Dunkin' Donuts, Starbucks, Movies, Millburn Deli with outside seating, and so on. How does it handle the litter and garbage situation?
Cross-posted with cmonty's post. |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 196
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:37 pm: |
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I've often written on this board about the garbage downtown and how disappointed I am with the situation. It is a problem that seems to get worse every year in my opinion. I walked through downtown on Easter Sunday and was depressed at the sight. I used to be somewhat shocked by the appearance, but not anymore because I have come to expect it.
Wait till you see what our sidewalks look like now that there is a smoking ban (which I totally support by the way). Everyone from Cryan's, Bunny's, Gaslight, etc. will be smoking on the sidewalks and dropping their butts on the sidewalks and on the curbs. That should be considered littering also and fines should be levied for that. I never understood why smokers felt they could just throw them out car windows or drop them on the sidewalk, as though it isn't litter. |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 3507
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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Bunny's offers Alfresco dining with table service. The area is kept clean. Customers who wish to smoke out front are not prohibited from doing so! I personally cleaned the area along west south orange avenue on easter morning. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1702
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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I did see that Red Bank has adopted an ordinance that requires all restaurants and bars to have receptacles outside their establishments. There was a picture of one restaurant that had one of those large concrete containers with sand. Sounds like a very good idea. SO should definitely consider such an ordinance. |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 197
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:48 pm: |
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I agree. We should have such an ordinance pronto pronto. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2745
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 3:11 pm: |
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Spitz: I raised the idea of that type of ordinance along with Steve Steglitz. There was not enough support at that time but I agree we should revist (or consider other similar type ordinances). There was a question if you could require they purchase ones that are the same that we already have. I actually suggested the town buy the garbage pails, but pass an ordinance requiring the storeowners emptying them.
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Kitchenguru
Citizen
Username: Kitchenguru
Post Number: 69
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:36 pm: |
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Okay guys lets put up or shut up. I think at least five of us should picket the area from 8 AM to 8 PM with big signs. We need a great slogan--anyone? |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 190
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:46 pm: |
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"Stash your trash" and put a picture of a garbage can underneath the slogan |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 335
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:46 pm: |
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Is drinking on the sidewalk allowed in front of Bunnies while dining?
And what about drinking while smoking outside the bars now? |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1180
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 7:42 pm: |
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Drinkiing while dining is allowed. Not just at Bunny's but everywhere tables can be found legally outdoors. Smoking is still allowed outdoors so anyone who sits at a table outside is free to smoke (for now). However, there is very limited seating outdoors at most places. So, if you used to enjoy dining outdoors at certain restaurants, you will probably no long be able to find seating because the state has forced smokers to take the seats that you used to enjoy. You can thank Ex-Gov. Cody. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:06 pm: |
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As the person who opened this can of worms, it seemed to me last Sat. that the main reason for the litter was that the cans were filled, trash stacked up a foot or so above the top and overflowing. People must have tried very hard to squish or balance those last items that were on top, and I'm guessing most of what was on the ground had originally been in/on the cans (except for the detergent bottle). So for that specific day, I wouldn't blame the disposers, but rather wanted to remind whoever is responsible to empty the cans more timely on a busy day. |
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