| Author |
Message |
    
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 9973
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 11:21 pm: | 
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Maybe I can't read either because I can't find JTA's reference to September 15.
However, I did see Tom Reingold mention that date. |
FlyingSpaghettiMonst
Citizen
Username: Noodlyappendage
Post Number: 187
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 11:24 pm: |
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Sorry about the 15th
If Garden of Eden Gourmet Markets opens this Sept, as stated in the Snooze Wreckered, |
Politicalmon
Citizen
Username: Politicalmon
Post Number: 185
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 12:34 am: |
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My thoughts are that it will open before the end of the year; they will give away the farm to get it done at our expense. This deal will cost us just like the fully rented apartment on W 3rd Street, which received full tax abatement in order to be developed during as period of escalating real estate prices cost us.
Fully populated within 2 years they use resources yet generates no tax revenue, you know that sounds like our largest owner of real estate - Seton Hall – (I’m not just referring to the campus we are talking investment properties) and come to think of it they use our resources and also generate no property tax revenue.
You can be guaranteed that just as they left the liabilities of the Shot Rite site on the back of taxpayers since some of our local politicians, legal consul and chief administrator are more interested in personal enrichment at our cost.
The family that owned the Shop Rite, Sayid, Biefus & the developers are part of the club and we give amateurs the right to manage our money - and that is pretty scary.
The last thing they want is to disrupt that gravy train,
which is why they will get this done.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5447
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 4:24 am: |
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Guess I'm a little of both Noodle! I was trying to post fast so I could stop two ten years olds from doing what I use to do myself as a kid - ride down the steps on pillows! Why? Well, because I was concerned they'd break a bone or two! In my haste I combined the info in Tom's post and the info in the New Wreckered. Good thing I have you to follow me around MOL to point out my mistakes! Thanks!
 What would I do without you!? Thanks again... |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5448
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 4:37 am: |
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Political Mom-
I'm not sure that's true about the family that use to own Shop-Rite. If I remember correctly the family (Summa or something like that) who owned the one in the Village owns several others in the area. Years ago they wanted to build a brand new state of the art Super Shop-Rite on Third Street. There were several 'rumors' going around as to why this never happened. One had to do with those living on Third Street not wanting the added traffic. The other something to do with the new Shop-Rite having a pharmacy. I could be wrong. If I am, I'm sure noodle will be along before I wake up to correct my post.
I also thought the town condemned the Shop-Rite property. That's why I think the family who use to own the SR in town has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on!
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joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 613
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 6:42 am: |
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What about the lawsuit against the town, because one with a conflict voted against development?
jd |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 437
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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Has anyone else heard that a large Whole Foods Market will be opening soon at Essex Green, that the one in Montclair will be closing? |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 1470
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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Interesting - no, hadn't heard that...
Any idea on the timeline? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5454
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 3:50 pm: |
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Sorising-
There will be one opening in West Orange but not at Essex Green. It will be where the Pathmark use to be a mile or so down the road, at the intersection of Eagle Rock and Prospect. Don't know the opening date though. |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1813
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
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"I have more GLOBAL theories I can expound on."
Cali - What are your theories? I'm interested in your take on the subject.
By the way, my posts above referred to the need for some kind of financial disincentives to prod the developers along. It's important to note that we (the Village, BOT and Planning Board ) have given the developers every single financial incentive they've asked for. In addition to PILOTs, the developers have received any variances they requested from the Planning Board as well Beifus getting the BOT to amend the buffer requirement between the rear of his property and the pool, so that he could increase the density. Of course, after this was done and his original plan was approved, he came back before the Planning Board to decrease the dnesity and eliminate the parking deck because of the cost. I can't think of anything the developers have asked for that they didn't receive. |
Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 1499
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 9:53 am: |
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Spitz,
This isn't a comment about your post as such, more a comment in general that I have based on a something within your post...
You say (rightly I expect) that we have given the developers every financial incentive they have asked for. I would imagine maybe even a few more.. but I am left to ask when are WE going to see something that we have asked for? There is no way that any of these people are proposing building etc purely for the incentives. They must see a profit here for them. If I were in that kind of business I would want my operation up as soon as possible to get the dollars rolling in to replace what I have been having to spend to build the residence/business. So my question is what's going on? Business is business. You want to come here and build to make money, then build. If you don't build on time, within code etc etc then you can expect to be paying penalties too - Sterling can't even give the cost of an apartment (a ballpark figure was thrown at me which seemed to be just to give me a figure as a minute before she said there were no plans/prospectus yet and no idea of costs), Beifus is - well, we all know that one, Saiyd is the same if not worse than Beifus.
Our town should not be needing to give variances etc. You submit plans and they are approved then, with the exception of unforeseen circumstances, that should be that. To come back with delaying tactics such as the one you mention on Beifus with the parking deck as it was too expensive is ridiculous. You are a developer and should have all your ducks in a row prior to submission and definately prior to approval. The fact that tax paying entities were demolished is another reason why delaying tactics should be nipped in the bud.
Our town is special, it can be everything that we want and there is no way that we should be beholden to, or even begging for people to come here, we are the ones who should be deciding who we want in our town, and if things were handled correctly we would have a long list of businesses, chain, independant whatever, who would want to come here.
It was stated that the BOT were expecting some of the projects to have been completed and tax dollars already coming in which is not the case and therefore the budget/cash flow isn't where it should be. So then get tough on these people!! Assess penalties etc whatever you need to do to get things going. The concern should be for our town, not kowtowing to people with a long track record, and heaven only knows what personal agenda, for all the delays.
Enough is enough.
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Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1814
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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Agreed.
Something good to say about SO. My favorite time in the Village is early morning, 7:00 - 8:00 am. The plantings are beautiful. On Fridays, Cait & Abby's has freshly baked challah which is incredible. Our grandchildren are visiting from Minnesota and a family tradition is challah french toast. Try it -you'll like! |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 2027
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 10:28 am: |
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Soparents -- look at the Sayid mess -- total incompetence on a financial and planning basis.
In reality, its a house of cards. Bank approves construction loan, then the market and rates change, bank wants to renogiate, and so on and so on.
But that's because we seem to be dealing with marginal players -- whose resources seem barely able to do what is planned.
In the case of Sayid, Beifus, etc -- while I agree bonding and financial penalties make sense, I seriously doubt they'd ever get financing or finish the projects with penalites in place, they'd just go bankrupt (they are the WRONG guys!)
Pulte, Sterling, etc. have more resources (and likely infinitely better planning), than these Mom & Pop developers we seem to have embraced (and note -- if I was Sterling, I wouldn't sink a real chunk of $$ into the market complex until the village has all the variances and site issues dealt with -- because no buyer will get clear title without it!).
I shudder to think what might happen if Beifus runs into financial issues, say 30 or 50% into construction? If we think the hole in the ground looks bad for the past few years... (just watch Sayid....)
/p
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Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 1504
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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Pete - from an outsiders standpoint I wholeheartedly agree with you (and I also suspect a lot of insiders may feel that way to..) - I have forgotten what the plans actually are now for Beifus and Saiyd - things keep changing with the exception that we still have derelict sites.
Pulte/Sterling/et al, yes the big guns have money and I hope upon hope that much sooner rather than later we see some signs of progress, and not just fencing and banners, that for once an entity has come and intends to make good on the hope and dreams of the people who already live here.
I told Garden of Eden that I would be first in line the day they open and I really meant that.
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Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 493
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 8:45 am: |
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Spitz: With regard to Beifus - the Planning Board allowed Beifus to eliminate the basement which IMO is devastating to both potential Condo owners and retailers as there will be no main storage areas or fitness room. The mechanical units will also be moved up to the 1st floor which in turn limits that floor's usable space.
And only one member of the Planning Board voted "no" against this request. Scary. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 2411
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 26, 2006 - 3:26 pm: |
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With regard to Whole Foods -
Yes, there is a Whole Foods planned for the former Pathmark site at the strip mall at Prospect and Eagle Rock. Judging from the looks of things (i.e., site completely gutted and wide open) "coming soon" is likely an overstatement. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 619
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:28 am: |
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The discussion last evening during remonstrance’s about the potential sale of the Old ShopRite building to Garden of Eden by breaking up the configuration raises a number of questions or implications to this project:
> The rational for the Pilot was that it was given to the Developer to make it financially feasible to attract an operator for the needed supermarket. If the supermarket component is now separated, does it make sense that a Pilot is given to the component that develops upscale Condo’s? Does this reconfiguration change or require redefinition of the Pilot?
> The Township issued bonds to cover the purchase of the various properties. Given the delays, the cost to the taxpayers (interest payments, principle repayments and loss of tax revenues) should be recovered. Should the selling price(s) be renegotiated?
> Will this new plan need to go before the planning board?
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 625
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 6:15 pm: |
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I was surprised by the statements made by our Village Administrator and Counsel at the last BOT meeting relating to questions raised during remonstrance's on the New Market project (listen to www.howard-levison.com/bot06262006new_market_schedules.wmv ).
I had previously read these agreements and did not recall there being schedules or milestones specified. I submitted an OPRA request for a copy of the agreement and after reading it again still cannot find any semblance of timelines or schedules.
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Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 508
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 7:12 pm: |
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The thing I always liked about that clip is the fact that Mr. Matthews could not recall what was in the agreement - this project being the most scrutinized of all of the downtown redevelopment projects. |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 226
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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July 11-still waiting......... |
Veritas Ultimo
Citizen
Username: Veritas_ultimo
Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
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The points in Howard Levison's June 27, 2006 post above should be continually raised to the Trustees until some answer is given. At a time when there is almost no significantly sized and prime location property available for residential development, why is the Vilage giving PILOT concessions to obtain an "upscale" supermarket when there is nothing to require the builder to provide a continuously operating supermarket? This is just more SISO (Stupidity In South Orange). |
GlassJoe
Citizen
Username: Glass_joe
Post Number: 80
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 11:07 pm: |
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I saw two bikers having sex in the back of the old Shop Rite lot last night. |
Soparents
Supporter
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 2009
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 8:17 am: |
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Great - crack house, sex stop... what else... |
Lucy Smith
Citizen
Username: Lucy123
Post Number: 230
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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Does anyone know why in the world they had to cut down ALL of the trees along the tracks at the Vose site? They did this yesterday so i guess as of July 12 they are "working on it". But why did they have to cut down so many trees that aren't even on the lot?????? I can't imagine they are going to build up onto the bank to the tracks? We couldn't believe how many trees were gone. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 4512
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 5, 2006 - 9:36 pm: |
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Anyone else receive a letter from "The Avenue" today? Apparently, they sent a letter to people who called or went on the website & registered for more information.
Here's a quote: "As exciting as it is to be able to view the initial site work at The Avenue, we feel it is important to tell you that it is yet a bit to early to begin any 'pre-sales' activities by delivering information to the public. It is our philosophy, you see, that only after when have perfected the fine details of our condominiums, shall we first unveil them to you - individuals whom we're sure will demand only the best quality a contemporary new home can offer!"
So, it is "too early" to begin pre-sales activities, but not "too early" for the building to have been torn down several months ago????
Can anyone say "Coming Soon"? |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 4535
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
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Here is a copy of the full letter:
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RBC
Citizen
Username: Rbcole123
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 3:32 pm: |
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That letter doesn't sound too promising. No details at all on the project -- they should at least be able to provide a description of the units. The writing ain't so great either. |
Nancy - LibraryLady
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 3784
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 3:43 pm: |
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I received my copy a few days latter. That HAS to be the most poorly composed letter of all time. If they design and build as well as they write....we are in deep(er) trouble. |
Nuff Sayid
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 472
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 4:19 pm: |
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Please someone wake this town up. It's slumbered way too long in a needless nightmare.
I want to ..s c r e a m ..
We need to plan for our future. No pilots for residential development! |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 4537
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 4:24 pm: |
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Nuff,
By the looks of this letter, there won't be any residential development anytime soon, so therefore there won't be any PILOT anytime soon. Happy?  |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 669
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 4:35 pm: |
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And no tax dollars flowing from properties that are now owned by the Village and financed through a bond issue.  |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1874
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 4:52 pm: |
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Has the Village received the initial payment of $1million from Sterling yet? I think Allan Rosen said he was expecting it about mid-July. The plans were to use $500,00 towards next year's budget. In order to do so, the funds must be received before the final budget is adopted. |
Nuff Sayid
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 473
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 5:05 pm: |
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There is no enforceable agreement in my mind. If the Shop Rite site is purchased separately by the Garden of Eden, we are back to square one in negotiating a pilot agreement with Sterling. Why would the town extend one if the food operator is purchasing the shop rite building outright? What do the residents gain?
It's a rhetorical question answered by - Nothing at all!
What is important now is that this shop rite mess become transparent to the general public. Enough is enough! |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 616
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 - 7:53 pm: |
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I'm afraid West Orange's "coming soon" food market will arrive before South Orange's:
Whole Foods Market
Mt. Prospect & Eagle Rock
West Orange, NJ
55,430 sq. ft.
Opening date to be announced.
Very sad for South Orange.
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Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1876
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 3:48 pm: |
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Guess we haven't. |
SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising
Post Number: 620
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 4:11 pm: |
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Wouldn't think so, Spitz. Sterling's attorneys know what they're doing. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5869
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 5:54 pm: |
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How come they don't have a website? Wouldn't that be more cost effective? |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 4600
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 1:10 pm: |
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Anyone else notice the sign on Vose Ave saying that traffic lanes will be shifted for 12 months due to the Construction that appears to be starting on the parking deck.
I guess the Supermarket won't be opening by Thanksgiving as promised by Calabrese, eh?  |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 969
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 2:27 pm: |
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Parking deck for what?
Didn't we have a Shop Rite supermarket right there where a maybe expensive gourmet market will arise, until it was chased away, post lawsuit against the village because the village voted against a large shop-rite at the third street commons site?
Who needs expensive.
We need milk and juice, cold cuts, produce, the usual stuff.
jd
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buddybak
Citizen
Username: Buddybak
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 29, 2006 - 5:54 pm: |
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joel; that was the VP who couldn't stand a another drug store in town which SHOPRITE was going to have and it was going to be a SuperShoprite like the one in WEST ORANGE is. The shoprite was going to payfore the building of a driveway tocome down from valley street so that the noise from the trucks would make. The condos also didn't want it the ones accross from the gaslight commons. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 4624
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 7, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
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I noticed the following "poll" on the News Record website:
http://www.localsource.com/news_-_record/front/?cal=essexcounty
NOVEMBER???? |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 597
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 7, 2006 - 4:06 pm: |
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MHD: What do you find wrong with that date?
November 2007. |
newtoallthis
Citizen
Username: Newtoallthis
Post Number: 302
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 7, 2006 - 4:25 pm: |
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Does the News-Record normally do polls like this? I'd be interested in exactly who chose that particular poll..... |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 334
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 7, 2006 - 9:34 pm: |
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Was the poll from November 2004? I remember Calabrese promising that the market will be open by Thanksgiving. If that was the case, the turkey is really getting dry. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12605
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 8, 2006 - 4:04 am: |
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Still putting my money on C-Town or Bravo.  |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 1034
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 8, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
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Too bad that the same despotic ways ruled for years after chasing shop rite away.
jd |
Veritas Ultimo
Citizen
Username: Veritas_ultimo
Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 9, 2006 - 10:50 pm: |
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Bob K: We probably dont't have to worry about C-Town. I have it on the best auhority that it passed on the site a few years ago. (Ouch!) Of course, now with present situation, it might reconsider if the Village comes up with enough incentives. |
Avenue