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Message |
    
Joe Citizen
Citizen
Username: Joecitizen07079
Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 6:08 pm: | 
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Last year my family and I attended the Free Fireworks display that the Village provides for all of Essex County here in South Orange. While I like most people enjoy a good fireworks display, what I didn't appreciate was the way that quite a few of my fellow attendies were doing before durring and after the fireworks were done. My family and I were exposed to evrything from people enjoying some alcoholic beverages on Floods Hill (against the law last I checked) there was also plenty of people smoking what appeared to be marijauna. Then there was the utter chaos that followed, there were fights everywere. I saw people fighting by the duck pond, people fighting all over South Orange Avenue, at one point I saw a group fighting by Village Plaza that was so large I worried the police might not be able to stop them without themselves getting hurt.
I hope that the town has learned from these past incidents and has considered maybe changing the date of the fireworks to a night when many other surrounding towns are having their fireworks display, which might hopefully cut down on the number of people who come into South Orange from other towns. Maybe the board of trusties can also beg the Essex Co. Sheriffs Dept. for some assistance, Suplamenting our Police Force with either some Sherrifs officers or maybe some of the Sherrifs Deputies (Men & Women who Volenteer to do Police Work for Free). |
Bailey
Citizen
Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 271
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 9:06 am: |
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Hmm..
Joe, while I don't think there's an open invitation to all of Essex County, South Orange doesn't check ID's. I'm troubled that you felt it necessary to say whatever happened was caused by Essex County residents. We're also close to Union, Passaic and Morris Counties, to name a few. Maybe residents of some of those counties visited too?
This is the first time I've heard what you've described. How do you know whoever was involved wasn't from South Orange, and why blame all of Essex County?
Since the fireworks display is open to all, maybe we should ask the National Guard for help this year.
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Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 771
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 1:57 pm: |
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No, Bailey. It has been getting progressively worse yearly. I have to agree. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1484
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:43 pm: |
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I do too. The evening concert is pleasant and fun, but around 8 o'clock throngs of people show up and chaos begins. Nobody spreading blankets or observing personal space- just too many people walking right over your blanket and your kids if you aren't watching. During the fireworks, nobody really watches. It's gotten awful, and we swore we won't go again. Afterward you couldn't walk through the center without mobs of youth ruling the sidewalks. Seniors were terrified and families had to stay close together.
The BOT supposedly considered canceling the fireworks, and I think they should have. It costs a fortune, few S.O. residents come any more and the atmosphere is anything but neighborly or patriotic. Very sad.
BTW, I don't believe I saw any trustees last year. Messrs. Calabrese and Matthews were there and working all night. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 773
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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Last year I remember people setting off fireworks on the field, amidst the crowds of people...exceedingly dangerous. |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 339
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 10:26 am: |
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How about all the vendors, I'm sure they all had permits.
Seriously though...
Every Town that has fireworks always gets a large out of town following, but what the Village's display has turned into of recent years is an out of control and unsafe event. Their simply isn't enough traffic or pedestrian control to funnel people in and then out quickly and safely. Public safety in and around the event is at question by residents. I think either our little town's police force is out matched, or stretched too thin on for an event this size.
For a town where a huge majority of your tax dollars are funnelled to the county, it would be a substantial gesture for the county to provide assistance to the Village for this event. But its historic in Essex County for the suburbs to to fund a no show county government which basically supports and services The City of Newark.
Small towns can hold large events, but a strategic event plan needs to be in place to quickly funnel people in and out of the event, and it seems in the past few years things got out of control.
Best of luck to those planning this year, and hopefully the Village will seek assistance from other public safety departments to assist and give residents some visable peace of mind, so they, and out of towners, can attend this event in harmony. |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 89
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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These are South Orange fire works and should be made available to South Orange residents for free and a price to anyone else who wants to go. Millburn sells tickets and I think Maplewood does also. Why are we the town that opens up the fire works display to everyone and anyone for free?
Tickets should be issued to South Orange residents for free and sold to anyone else for $5.00. All the surrounding streets that lead to Floods Hill should open only to people who have a ticket.
Best thing to do......cancel them and save the money. |
Politicalmon
Citizen
Username: Politicalmon
Post Number: 135
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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I think Jeep is on to something - perhaps Maplewood & South Orange should combine the event and promote this plan for the community. |
Bailey
Citizen
Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 272
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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Or, maybe requre ID and charge residents one fee and charge more for non-residents.
South Orange didn't have fireworks displays for years, and we often went to Maplewood, which does charge to get inside their fence, but allows (or at least used to allow) people to sit across Valley Street and watch the display for free. Of course, you couldn't see the ground display unless you paid to go inside. Maybe it's just too difficult to fence Cameron field and it's surrounding areas?
I wouldn't mind paying a fee to get inside a fence, if that was possible. I don't know what the budget is, but I'm sure it's a heck of a lot of money. I'd also guess MOST residents don't take advantage of the display. |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 203
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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Cancel the fireworks and never have them again. They bring more problems than they are worth. I won't go because I saw many problems in the past as described above. Most I know in town won't go either. Ask the cops what they think of it. They know it brings problems and would rather not have to deal with it. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2748
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 1:06 pm: |
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I raised the issue at a public safety meeting last summer. I asked the Administrator and the Police chief to come up with an alternative site. In my opinion we can only continue to have the July 4th fireworks if can limit the display to residents.
At this point, no decsion has been reached, but I would agree that there are problems with the current format and unless changes can be made we should cancel having fireworks in S. Orange.
I do plan to discuss this at the next conference agenda meeting. If anyone has an opinion on the matter, they should either come to the meeting or send an email to the village administrator (jgross@southorange.org).
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jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 90
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 1:31 pm: |
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Mr. Rosner it is nice to see someone on the board that is making sense!
Why should we as residents and tax payers have to deal with this situation. It is clear that it has become more and more of a crowd issue. The fights are un acceptable, garbage left behind is disgusting. I have gone every year and last year was my last. The fire works display was great the crowd was out of control.
I am going to Millburn and buying tickets to enjoy a nice all around experience. |
K_soze
Citizen
Username: K_soze
Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 3:30 pm: |
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Thank you Mr. Rosner |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 4:27 pm: |
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Just another point of view -
We live half a block from Flood's Hill, have attended the fireworks for 10 years, and hope to be there again this year. Yes, it's too bad people don't carry their trash away with them, but other than that it's always been a pleasant (if crowded) experience. We love the local musicians, the children running around with glow sticks, the display itself and the sense of community. We have had no problems either at the site or along our block (except the trash, and it's not that bad except right at the site).
To me, this is an important holiday and a traditional way of celebrating it, and I'd hate to see it go. My cat, on the other hand, doesn't care for it.
For us very locals, the same conditions are present for the summer concerts and the Memorial Day soccer tournament, too. Some inconvenience, but worthwhile community events. |
runon
Citizen
Username: Runon
Post Number: 118
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 6:36 pm: |
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I'm with MJC. My husband and I, along with our son and a couple of adult friends from Maplewood, have attended the fireworks as long as we've lived in South Orange (four summers). I can't reconcile the positive experience of my little group with with the unpleasant evenings other posters describe. We live a few blocks north of the park (near the Orange border). There are lots of people walking past our house to/from the park and dense, crawling traffic, a bit of litter, but nothing troubling - just a bunch of people going to watch the fireworks. I certainly never felt unsafe and have never had people walking over our blanket on the hill, etc. I've always felt like it was such a festive community event that had me glowing about how great it is to live here. |
tototoo
Citizen
Username: Tototoo
Post Number: 170
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 8:01 pm: |
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I stand firmly with MJC and runon. I have attended THE FIREWORKS since I was a child of four (that would be forty-sumthin years ago). The Fourth of July is my favorite holiday, bar none. I currently live a block east of Flood's Hill. Yes, there are crowds of people, but what I love the MOST is the anticipation in the eyes of the children and adults alike, heading to the Hill. What I also love MOST is the incredible display of the flashes of color and the BOOM (which used to scare me as a child). Imagine, twenty-sumthin years later sitting at Flood's Hill with your own child's eyes wide with awe. To the keepers of this town I plead that you keep the tradition. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 798
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 8:05 pm: |
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Yeah the display of flash and boom as a few ill mannered punks set off fireworks in a grou of innocent bystanders, and are then pursued by SO PD but lost in the wave of people |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1379
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 8:58 pm: |
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Seems like this would be a good use of pool badges (or tickets as someone suggested)
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Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 800
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:08 pm: |
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So we fence everyone between a small field and a small river? Seems less safe than what's going on now. |
Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 651
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
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Why not have a bunch of cops? Law abiding citizens shouldn't mind their presence. Law ignoring thugs will be intimidated. Where are all of the police? Don't they want to see the fireworks?
I'm pro-cops. They should be everywhere. We should all know them. They should know us.
Where's Barney Fife? |
NORA
Citizen
Username: Norav
Post Number: 152
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 10:11 pm: |
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Why not have them at the waterlands. They could fire them off from the the DPW. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 804
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
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I hate the cops that assume I'm going to/coming from drinking and partying because I am a teenager driving at night. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2972
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 10:36 pm: |
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Maplewood does not charge for the fireworks. They charge if you want to go to the circus, or whatever special events they have. You can't exactly charge for something that takes place 50-150 feet up in the air.
How exactly do we charge people to watch our fireworks? Do people seriously suggest fencing off all of Flood's Hill? |
SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 1751
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 11:25 pm: |
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How much does the fireworks and related events cost the village? I tried to look through the budget numbers on the village website and couldn't locate a specific line item, so maybe it's bundled with other "parks and recreation"-type stuff. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 640
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 2:20 am: |
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Mr. Rosner- I like how you think. I have voted for you in the past and will support you as long as you are willing to serve. That being said, here is my expansion on your great idea...
1} The viewing area for the fireworks will be the baseball field adjacent to the pool.
a. The field will be cordoned off with removeable "cyclone fence".
b. The residents of SO will provide ID to get in for free
c. Non-residents will pay $5 or $20 per family
2) Fireworks will be launched on the corner of Mead and Meadowbrook. (the streets are usually closed during the 4th anyway}
3) A concession area will be provided across pedestrian bridge to duckpond. (they usually start there and move their operation to hill in evening anyway.}
4) Floods Hill will be "fenced off" as well. Any amount of early 4th events can be held there. However, at night just fence it off. The cost is much lower than the DPW overtime that is paid the next day for cleanup!
5) The townfolk wil appreciate this as a "Villager Event".
To be non PC... ••• it ! Let's just do something for us, the people who pay huge taxes, came here to be part of a great community, stayed here to be part of a great community, enjoy one another's company. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3279
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 9:05 am: |
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Rastro - Maplewood charges a fee for the day. The ticket you buy also entitles you entrance to the fireworks. If you drive past the park on Valley Street, you will see that it is fenced off. Yes, people can sit around the perimeter and see the skyworks - but the space is somewhat limited and they miss the ground show. South Orange only has skyworks. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2749
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 10:39 am: |
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Matt: Thanks for your nice words.
I should point out that Floods Hill is "open space" and we can not charge a different amount for residents or non-residents. Also, Flood's Hill is not an enclosed area so it would be almost impossible to collect fees.
One possibility would be to hold the fireworks at waterlands behind the Gasligh Commons. There is parking by the rescue squad and we could charge admission to help control the crowd.
The problem has grown over the years and guesstimates from the police department state that about 7,500 people attend the fireworks. We also guess that less than half of those attending are from S. Orange (some have said it might be less than 25%).
I did discuss briefly with Andy Brady for his thoughts and I am hoping we can come up with some way to still have the fireworks. The cost of the fireworks plus police and DPW overtime runs about $20,000.
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1925
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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I, too, think the Flood's Hill fireworks event is a great thing in the village. Obviously some of our neighbors will come, too -- I think its unavoidable. And not necessarily a problem.
My suggestion would be more police cars parked around the perimeter and manned with a reasonable # of officers.
We could of course do what NYC does around Times Square -- put up temporary fencing at the roads accessing the area-- check backpacks, etc. for alcohol and fireworks. But I think that's pretty imperfect and may create more of a logjam than we'd want.
How about contacting the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and getting a bunch of packs/ troops to help out with clean up the next day? It would be a nice service project, too.
/p |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 204
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
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More police presence and fencing needed. Sounds like a great event. |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 92
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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Mr. Rosner thank you for the information. If the information is correct and less than 25% of the people attending are from SO that means only 1900 people are residents. SO if you make this free for residents and charge $3.50 per person for non residents which is cheap for such a show you could possible recoup the $20,000 the town lays out. It could be a pass for the entire days events. Waterlands park would be a perfect place.
And if only 1900 or so people are attending from SO it seems like an event that should be canceled. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2297
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 11:26 am: |
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I hope they don’t start checking Backpacks. Last year we went to Trader Joe’s and got a bunch of snacks (Salmon Pate’, Sushi, Nachos, etc) and had a great picnic. And what makes a picnic great is a nice wine. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1496
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 12:10 pm: |
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Pete- every cop on the force works on July 4th, and there aren't nearly enough. The Sheriff's Dept. gets requests from every town for help on July 4th-how many bodies are coming here when bigger towns with bigger crime issues are asking? NYPD has 40K cops- we have fifty. I think they know what needs to be done, but they don't have near the resources to do it. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1282
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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Maybe the town could arm all residents with clubs, tear gas, and knives. That way there is extra security, and you don't have to pay for more police overtime.
As I recall from last year, Joe Citizen was pretty much on point. Fighting in the streets, not enough police, and general mayhem were the themes of the night. And a good time was had by all... wait, I meant to say, And a good time was had by all the criminals...
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argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 817
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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Police OK but I don't think fencing is a good idea, that's all we need is a bunch of Zorro wannabes running around in the crowd!!!
Brett is right though, if they check backpacks and start finding Salmon Pate’, Sushi, Nachos, etc there is going to be real trouble.
The best way to collect money at a 'borderless' event like this is to sell cups and then enforce it at the keg.
Please also be aware that July 4th ("Independence Day" to some) is NOT the best holiday. That distinction is reserved for Thanksgiving. July 4th is pretty good though with or without the fireworks.
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Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2298
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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I was more concerned about the bottle of wine. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1283
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 1:10 pm: |
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Who needs wine when you have tear gas to play with? |
rosen
Citizen
Username: Conway1099
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 4:04 pm: |
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Mr. Rosner,
If I could make a suggestion, I would ask someone to go see how Ridgewood (in Bergen County) runs their fireworks display.
They fence in an entire park, just like ours, and charge for entrance into the park which is the prime viewing spot.
I would imagine that the park entrance fee subsidizes the firework display cost to some degree. I am sure a call to their parks deparment would be beneficial. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 813
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 4:07 pm: |
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Fencing in a park is extremely dangerous, especially with a river running on one side. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2750
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 4:13 pm: |
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Rosen: I will see if someone can find out. Personally, I don't think I really like the idea of a fence plus we would have to find about the cost of one. |
Joe Citizen
Citizen
Username: Joecitizen07079
Post Number: 37
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 4:49 pm: |
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Personally I like to idea of charging a fee for people to watch the fireworks display, the only problem that I see witt that is the town would have to find a park area with in South Orange that is not only large enough to accomidate a crowd of lets say 7000 to be on the safe side, and one thst the fire department will sign off on as not being a risk for fires, and oh yes it has to be a park that the town did not at any time take Green Acres grant money from the federal government. Incaase you are not aware by taking this money for improvements to a park, opens said park up to the use of anyone who wishes to use it not just South Orange Residants.
Personally I would rather see the town schedual a fireworks display on the towns birthday, it's not a national holiday, and as long as we don't take out ads in the newspaper then maybe it can be a day for South Orange Residants to celibrate our towns history and rich tradition and hopefully not have to share it with a bunch of non-tax paying non-residants.
And to those of you who are under the belief that I am slamming Essex Co. Residants and not South Orange Residants, you are missing the point, I am not crazy enough to think that absolutely no one who was causing trouble last year was not a residant of South Orange. I just hope that most of the troublemakers were from out of town.
Either way I am glad to see that at least one Tustee Mr. Rosner have a level head that is not in the clouds about the chaotic scene the Fireworks on the Fourth of July.
My suggestion is if the trustees insist on having the fireworks this year on the Fourth of July then they should all be required to personally attend the event, and if possible be assigned to stick with a police officer who can make sure that they see first had the chaos that ensues. Ofcousre we all know this will not happen becouse no person in his or her right mind would volenteer to put them selves in harms way to get first hand information.
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Hamandeggs
Citizen
Username: Hamandeggs
Post Number: 271
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 5:06 pm: |
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Ridgewood's parade and fireworks are run without any taxpayer $. My mother ran that parade for years (until last year) and it's a fact. Yes, there is a charge for the tickets to watch from the prime spot. Of course, this doesn't limit anyone from just looking up to see. |
Joe Citizen
Citizen
Username: Joecitizen07079
Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 9:26 pm: |
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Hamandeggs: Are we speaking of the same fireworks display? This thread is dedicated tot he fireworks diplay provided by South Orange to the residants of Essex County located on Floods Hill. I have to ask this because in my 30 years in South Orange I do not ever remember a time when there was a Parade attached to the Fireworks, unless you are talking about the extreemly large crowds of people who seem to flee the area once the fireworks are over like a frieghtened heard of cattle in a stampeed.And even if the fireworks display it's self isn't paid for by the tax payers, who do you think pays the 50+ police officers ordered in on Overtime along with how ever many fire fighters , dpw employees, and parks department personel. All of who are working on overtime. Who pays for their services on the 4th of July? Santa Claus? This is an expensive, unsafe event that sould either be relocated, reschedualed, or cancelled all together. |
FlyingSpaghettiMonst
Citizen
Username: Noodlyappendage
Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 9:58 pm: |
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Joe, read Haman's post c a r e f u l l y.
It say's "RIDGEWOOD"S parade and fireworks"
and suggesting we look into how it is run. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1512
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 10:35 pm: |
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First, move South Orange to Bergen County... |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 23043
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 4, 2006 - 10:36 pm: |
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I have to agree that last year was over the top scary. My sister lives very close to Flood's Hill and we can hang on her porch until they begin and then view from her front walk. Last year, the streams and streams of people going down to the park starting running when the fireworks began. They were still going towards Flood's Hill when the fireworks ended.
I could not go home for more than 2 hours (I live about 3 blocks away) due to the streams of people going back to their cars/buses/trains. The officer directing traffic in the intersection near her house (the beloved "Dancing Cop" - Butch Larkin God love him!) was a little overwhelmed by the foot traffic and had backup sent out. I know I heard of more than one fight involving a lot of youths, and I'm not surprised to hear there were many.
And, though Joe Citizen above may have misconstrued Ham&Egg's contribution, he's on target about the police, fire, and DPW overtime and the *fun* they get to have every 4th. |
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