| Author | Message | ||
     Stirling Silver, AG Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 412 Registered: 6-2005  |
 A whole | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 641 Registered: 1-2006  |
K soze, I think those facts are the reason an AK-47 was chosen. I think the gravestones idea would have made the same point. But wouldn't we still be arguing about THAT? I mean, if it had been a big giant ribbon that said, "support our troops" we'd be arguing. Should there be no political art? No community discussion about national politics? Or is the issue that it was done on public property? I am capable of changing my views, but I'm mostly commenting on the RESPONSE, not on THE ART. J.B. I don't know how to spell "sophisticated" or "unsophisticated" that's why I said, "stupid." | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4879 Registered: 1-2004  |
Something that came to my mind since I was last attacked in this thread. It seems ironic in this day and age of 'Zero Tolerance' where Kindergarten children are being suspended from school for pointing their finger at another child in play and saying 'Bang!' Or for making guns out of paper and pointing them at someone, in play, more people don't have a problem with what's on the field. There are some people who choose not to expose their children to these kind of things. I know young children who don't watch TV. They don't play with guns and they sure don't know about the war. Maybe there are children who aren't sophisticated at 5 as others. The park is a place where parents should be able to take their children and not have to worry about explaining the meaning of guns and war and why it seems South Orange is more concerned about protesting this war then supporting the families with loved ones there fighting. Why can't those who disagree see the other side of the issue? Why is it those of us who don't feel comfortable it's there are said to be against art? There are people talking about it off MOL and from what I'm hearing aren't thrilled it's there either. I've never had a problem with the 'art' on Flood hill until now. | ||
| stefano Citizen Username: Stefano Post Number: 490 Registered: 2-2002  |
http://home.earthlink.net/~cvialu/id78.html | ||
| Jersey Boy Citizen Username: Jersey_boy Post Number: 644 Registered: 1-2006 |
Aunt, et al., I had a friend growing up who didn't have a T.V., and his mother wouldn't allow them (three boys) to have toy guns. Their dad was an architect and they had an awesome woodshop in their basement. These kids made wooden battleships with tiny wooden airplanes. They made rubberband guns that were "automatic". You would load rubberbands on a spindle with nails and rotate it to pull the rubberbands tight. They used to play WAR all the time. I was at my house with the T.V. and my toy guns and I used to sew clothes for G.I. Joe. Neither of us has joined the military, nor committed a violent crime. Some of this stuff doesn't do what people think it does. Other things make kids violent. Not flowers shaped like an AK-47. I wish it were that simple. J.B. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2005 |
Well, it looks like someone took Just The Aunt's advise and destroyed part of the art work on the hill. Couldn't tell exactly by driving by, but the top row of the outline appears to be missing? Wonder if someone should go by Cheryl's house to see if the flowers are on her lawn yet? And I am also guessing that no one clicked on Stefano's link. Nice website and very helpful in this situation. Look folks, before you comment! | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 2966 Registered: 7-2002  |
Yeah, I noticed earlier today that the top part had been destroyed. I clicked the link Stefano gave, and noticed that someone needs to take better pictures, the images on the website could be a tad bit bigger, the black background should be changed, the font should be changed (sometimes the color too), not to mention be a little bigger, and did I mention that big black background.... | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4882 Registered: 1-2004 |
JB Fine, BUT; why can't / won't any of those who see no problem with this yet, another, 'anti-war message' in South Orange respond to my point about the message being sent to those living in our community withloved ones fighting in this war? There are people in our community who believe fighting the war is the right thing to do. (I'm not one of them) I'm not saying this display is going to make kids violent or cause them to join the military. And if it did encourage someone to join, good for them. I think we need to be sensitive to these people in town as well. I can see the discussion isn't going to change anyone's mind. I have bigger battles to fight anyway. Flying- I sure hope you weren't making any accusations. I happened to see adult working on the thing when I drove by about 3:45pm. I did hear someone saying this afternoon the town might have it taken down. As I said, there is talk about it offline and people aren't thrilled. | ||
| FlyingSpaghettiMonst Citizen Username: Noodlyappendage Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2005 |
I wasn't making accusations at all, but maybe someone saw your post and thought, hey this is a great idea. This poster knows what she's talking about and let's do it. I am not in town, obviously, nearly as much as you, but I haven't heard ANY talk that the town was taking it down. With the funding coming from another source, I don't even know if we could legally do so.Who are these sources?? What talk do you hear off line. We must definitly run in different circles. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4885 Registered: 1-2004 |
I was in the park when I heard people talking. It's not that we run in different circles, but there were parents talking about it at the hill today. Private funding or not, sure the town could take it down. I'm not sure who makes the decisions what can or can't go on the hill, but I'm thinking there must be some kind of guidelines. I'm wondering. Are you saying if something comes from private funding, then anyone should have the right to put something on the hill? As I said much earlier in the thread, at first when I said someone should rip it out, it was said when the original poster stated the Community Center didn't know about it nor did the police. I thought kids had done it as a prank. I wasn't serious the second time. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1750 Registered: 2-2005  |
It's a damned shame that people cannot have a rational discussion about "art" and must stoop to "vandalizing" something with which they do not agree. Yes, be sensitive to everybody, offend no one. That's what made this country great!!! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4888 Registered: 1-2004 |
SO I DID NOT do anything! Maybe kids playing on it like they've been doing all weekend messed it up? Maybe it's being moved? Maybe more people are jumping to conclusions? | ||
| Frederick Schmid Citizen Username: Carlfrederick Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2006 |
I think we found a good set of Auntie's finger prints on the gun. I have worked as a professional on lots of public sculpture projects -- this is a new low. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4890 Registered: 1-2004 |
 | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2973 Registered: 5-2004  |
A new low? Please. It's not like anyone pissed all over it. Oh wait, then THTAT would be art, too. Perhaps whoever did it was also making art. Afterall, it elicited an emotional response from you, which was, I'm sure, the intent of the individual(s) who did this This doesn't even come close to being low. I have no problem with the "art." I similarly have no problem with it being vandalized. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 1752 Registered: 2-2005 |
Where did I imply that you were the "vandal"? Regardless, it sucks. | ||
| SouthOrangeNanny Citizen Username: Sonanny Post Number: 160 Registered: 3-2005  |
being an artist..i see the art in it..but it makes me sick to see it on the hill next to the school and park where all the kids play. | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 280 Registered: 2-2005 |
some artists make art that can be altered by the public and that is part of the art too. Maybe this wasn't part of the plan here, but if other people come along and change the art it isn't necessarily destroying it or vandalizing. It may be "interacting" with the art. It doesn't necessarily "suck" and it isn't necessarily "a new low". it just is what it is. It may acutally be a new high that there is a strong response that resulted in a change to the art work. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 439 Registered: 1-2006 |
Why isn't plant destruction protected free speech - protected by the First Amendment? Doesn't everyone have the "right" to occupy public property, taking it out of the public's right to use, because of an opinion that must be expressed in a certain way? Lingering questions. jd | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1497 Registered: 4-2004  |
Whatever it is, somebody has already damaged it. | ||
| combustion Citizen Username: Spontaneous Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 |
I've heard parents of young children complaining about their kids seeing the display on the hill and asking about the gun. They believe their children are sheltered and are being exposed to something disgusting for the first time. It doesn't occur to them that they are asking about the gun BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNOW WHAT IT IS. How many movies and television shows geared toward children portray weapons (either real or space age) and violence. Try watching Saturday morning cartoons sometime. Young children are exposed to weapons and violence on a daily basis. In reference to K-soze's suggestion of using the flowers to make a tombstone instead of a gun, I think another variation would make a more powerful statement. Keep the gun, but instead of being made out of flowers, make it out of tombstones. I believe that would more honestly portray what the weapon is really about. JTA. You keep mentioning the troops, that they joined up after 9/11 to fight this war. That's not true. They joined up to protect America from terrorists, not to help "W" fulfill his sick fantasy of world dictatorship by invading a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and had NO WMD's. Before we invaded they were a minor threat, they are NOW a breeding ground of terrorism. We should support out troops, but please don't delude yourself as to why they are there. The most horrible part of this is now we CAN'T leave. We've created a mess that is to dangerous to get out of. Maybe this is the discussion that the artist wanted people to have. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 441 Registered: 1-2006 |
We can leave, if the political capital is expended. That is all there is to it. jd | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1192 Registered: 5-2003 |
I drove past it today. It's a gun with the barrel bent upwards. It looks to me like a statement in favor of peace. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4896 Registered: 1-2004 |
combustion- And I suppose you spoke with every single person who enlisted after 9.11 to ask them why they enlisted? I know of several people who have told me they enlisted after 9.11 because we were attacked. I have spoken with members of the National Guard when I brought care packages to send the Troops; I've spoken with the Marines when I've supported Toys for Tots. I've spoke to military people I've seen in uniform. Each and everyone one of them told me they were proud to be fighting in this war. The ones who joined after the war started told me they knew when they joined they'd be sent over; that's why they joined. I know people personally who have died fighting in the war. So please don't tell me not to delude myself as to why they are there. They choose to go. The people I know (knew) personally happen to believe in this war know I don't. But they also know I respect their decision. So again, as a community it's time we now show some support for these men and women; instead of all the anti war protests. It is not their fault things have turned out the way they did. It is not their fault Bush lied. | ||
| talk-it-up Citizen Username: Talkitup Post Number: 214 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am offended that the side of Flood's Hill is being used for a political statement. Yes, art should initiate discussion, but this is not art from a private gallery, this is art for a public gallery housed in a public building. This statement on the side of the hill, by an artist that I do not even think lives in South Orange should not have happened. It appears that it represents some public opinion. I am not sure even what that opinion is - pro gun??? I do not like the outline of a gun on the side of our hill. I do not like it being open to interpretation. If I had young kids I would not want them to think the village placed a shrine to weapons of war! (All my kids, and they are older, indicated that if it was anti-gun there would be an "X" over the gun.) When the Gallery was first opened I remember the discussion at the Village Board of Trustees indicating that the gallery would represent local artists and a statement indicating there would be certain criteria for the art to avoid controversy. All this and our school has a "no tolerance policy" that has removed kids from the system for periods of time for sketching guns and questionable acts of violence. No artist's license there. Isn't this a mixed message.... | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3281 Registered: 9-2003 |
May 4, 1970 Find the cost of freedom, buried in the ground, Mother Earth will swallow you, Lay your body down. | ||
| combustion Citizen Username: Spontaneous Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2006 |
JTA, did you even read my whole post before you responded? I said we SHOULD support the troops. I expressed dismay at their being misled by Bush. I was trying to make the point that 9/11 had NOTHING to do with this war. By the way, supporting the troops and supporting the war do not have to go hand in hand. | ||
| Scully Citizen Username: Scully Post Number: 410 Registered: 8-2005 |
JTA: '...instead of all the anti war protests. It is not their fault things have turned out the way they did. It is not their fault Bush lied.' Exactly! So let's support the troops and BRING THEM HOME!. supporting the troops and supporting the administration are NOT the same thing! If someone chooses to lay down their life in defense of their country that's one thing. If they're instead duped into it then that's OBSCENE! | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3878 Registered: 5-2001  |
Evidently there are many here on MOL who find it difficult to grasp irony, sarcasm, or subtle humor when engaging with art. Not wildly surprising, but still a tad disappointing for those who might envision the mass of MOL posters as erudite, politically savvy humanists. I'm looking forward to the upcoming exhibition at the Pierro Gallery. Will you be there? -s. | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1248 Registered: 5-2001  |
whatever...we don't need a giant, visible gun right where our children play. Young children can't understand the message, whatever it may be, art or no art. Who approved this? | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 500 Registered: 5-2001 |
If we all agreed on what constituted "art" worthy of being placed on Flood's Hill, the "art" would be so benign as to be meaningless. If you find it so disturbing, don't go there. It'll be gone soon. Please don't tell me about your tax dollars. Your tax dollars don't allow you to have your way on everything. | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1249 Registered: 5-2001 |
children playing team sports don't get to choose where they play | ||
| Sitoyan Citizen Username: Sitoyan Post Number: 168 Registered: 7-2004  |
An news clip in the News-Record gives some sense to the artwork at Flood's Hill. Apparently the gun made of flowers makes reference to Bush's assertion at the beginning of the Iraq war that "we will be greeted with flowers". Instead... | ||
| Lucy Supporter Username: Lucy Post Number: 3621 Registered: 5-2005  |
I don't think most people argue pro or against the art per say. It's where it is placed kind of like the fiasco at the gazebo last year on Halloween. Children should sometimes just enjoy being children for a little while don't you think? | ||
| michael brant Citizen Username: Mbrant Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2005 |
This park is not the place for such a political statement! Especially for this length of time. | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 502 Registered: 5-2001 |
children playing team sports aren't generally evaluating art work while they play. | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1250 Registered: 5-2001 |
sorry, but that's a ridiculous argument. They may not be evaluating artwork, but they can see a BIG GUN on the ground and you make my point for me...they have NO IDEA that it is artwork. Thanks for the help | ||
| Spanish Inquisitor Citizen Username: Sinq Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2004  |
they could be listening to Guns 'n Roses, too. WE HAVE TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN!!! | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3880 Registered: 5-2001 |
Also worth mentioning is the bogus statistic that fourty-six percent of children under the age of nine who play team sports within sight of "threshold" art go on to try the far more dangerous "hard stuff", such as that proffered by such questionable characters as Tony Smith, Henry Moore, and Richard Serra. All too frequently, these unfortunate kids -- some as young as age eleven or twelve have become addicted to Public Television, and may even be seen loitering menacingly in art supply stores, libraries, and garden centers. How long can we adults -- who should know better -- allow such insidious "fake" art to be exhibited out in the open, on a grassy hillside, where just anybody can see it, and on the public dime? My dime! Your dime! Our dimes! How long? O the humanity! I want my money back! -s. ...And cancel my rhumba lesson. | ||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 3885 Registered: 5-2001 |
...And why hasn't local law enforcement stepped in yet? Aren't they chartered with protecting the public from this sort of outrageous, disgraceful display? I demand action! Round up the usual suspects... -s. BTW: I've been hearing rumors... Have any of you lowdown, furtive, "lurker" guys out there been questioned by The Authorities about this? Well, don't worry, you evildoers. The Long Arm of the Aesthetics Police will soon be (figuratively) breathing down your necks. Ooooooooooh, you're in for it now... |
