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Message |
    
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1583
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 9:46 pm: | 
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Last night I was watching the 5/15 BOT meeting, and the head of parking(?) said, in passing, that they are on the verge of freezing the wait list for commuter parking, and adding no more names, because it has gotten so long.
If that is true, a few questions:
- Why does the length of the list mean that we "are not going to be able to add new names"? How hard is it to add another application to the stack?
- What savings are we gaining from closing the list? Does closing the list allow us to get rid of an employee, stop paying overtime or otherwise gain an efficiency?
- If we don't have a wait list, how will we maintain a real metric that measures how short our town is on commuter parking for residents?
- Is it fair to new taxpaying residents who move into town to not even let them get in line for a parking space as they very slowly become available?
I just don't get it. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5427
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 9:52 pm: |
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It does seem odd.
Does this mean that there will be a wait list to get on the wait list?
You people in South Orange are always coming up with neat new concepts ... |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5116
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 10:21 pm: |
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The problem is Susan when the Village had the chance to buy the Sickley Property the BOT didn't. If they did, the lot could have been restricted to South Orange residents only. But, now that NJT owns the lot and the Village has no control over it. If the BOT was smart, they would condemn one of the properties owned by Befuis or Syaid pave it over and make it a resident only lot. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1584
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
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JTA, that piece of history may be true, and may be one of the reasons we don't have more parking, but I don't see why it is relevant to a discussion of why we should or should not close the wait list for parking...
Personally, I think that NJT should have insisted that other towns also allow NJT owned parking for non-residents as a condition of having Midtown Direct stop in their towns...then we wouldn't be the only nearby town with a significant non-resident lot. As I just said on another thread, the taxpayers of NJ did not subsidize the creation of the Midtown Direct transfer capability only for the sake of those of us lucky/affluent enough to live in towns with their own stations. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 5120
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:27 am: |
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susan,
One of the reasons we have a lot of non residents parking here has nothing to do with other towns not having lots. The problem is there is no train in West Orange or Livingston. A good number of West Orange residents get on the train in South Orange over the Orange or East Orange stations despite the other two towns being closercould be because they feel it is safer in South Orange. Even the Jitneys from West Orange bypass the Highland Ave Station to go to South Orange. I'm guessing it's the same for Livingston, except they don't offer a Jitney.
The town letting the chancce to buy the lot themselves has everything to do with the waiting list. If they had bought it, there would be no need for a list. I agree it stinks the list is being closed. But when you think about it, would you rather be giving false hope you will get a spot 'soon,' or know up front you have a snownalls chance in the hot place of getting a spot anytime soon?
Sadly, what was supposed to be a selling point in town -Midtown Direct, is going to become less of one because of the lack of parking. |
Former Cowgirl
Citizen
Username: Formercowgirl
Post Number: 102
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:59 am: |
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Is there significant parking even at the Highland Avenue station? |
vermontgolfer
Supporter
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 444
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 9:01 am: |
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Not much parking at Highland and also, if I'm not mistaken, the Midtown train does not stop at Highland and many of the other stations as much as it stops in SO. |
dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm
Post Number: 303
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 9:58 am: |
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Vg,
there is very limited Midtown service from highland or mountain, if any. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11608
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 10:18 am: |
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There is a fair amount of parking at Orange I believe. It is right next to 280 and was popular with West Essex types from places such as Roseland. I believe it is guarded.
However, there is limited MTD service and the Hoboken line is local only.
We now live in West Orange out near the Livingston border. It is ten or so to downtown South Orange, not that I am parking there. |
Stuart0628
Citizen
Username: Stuart0628
Post Number: 271
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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Neither what other towns do or don't do, nor what South Orange should or shouldn't have done years ago, change Susan's point that the Village would not be helping itself by closing the waiting list.
The data on waiting list demand would be extremely valuable as we decide whether and where to route jitney service, among other uses. If we don't collect the data, we can't use the data.
I only spent a few months on the waiting list in 1996, so I don't know the answer to this. Do we send mailings to the wait list once a year to ask, "Do you still qualify for the list and do you still want to be on it?"
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3203
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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They don't. Since the MTD, the waiting list has grown to many years. Last I heard was around 6 years. There is no fathomable reason to close the wait list. As long as people know how long it will likely be (maybe they should be less optimistic), what is the harm?
And while I agree in principle that they should update the list periodically, that would cost money that the town doesn't have (please no snide remarks about certain artwork). |
kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 706
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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Does the village oversell permits?
If not, it might be a decent idea with proper planning.
On a daily basis for a whole year, the parking authority should write down all of the permit numbers that make use of a permit spot. They can then calculate how many permits are never or very infrequently used throughout the year and then they can oversell by that many permits. While they are checking permits, tickets can be issues to illegally parked vehicles.
I am sure that there are many permits that are paid for every year but not used because residents want the option for parking even if they never or very rarely use a spot.
I have found over the years that if you park in an expired meter spot, you are more likely to get issued a summons than if you park in a permit spot without a permit. It's not just South Orange, Montclair had the same problem as well. It used to frustrate me to drive through a completely filled parking lot and see cars without (visible) permits parked in permit spots and watching the parking authority ignoring them just to write tickets for expired meters.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2785
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
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Stuart: The parking authority (SOPA) is an autonomous agency and does not report to the village. Their next meeting is on June 20th at 7pm (at village hall) to ask them these questions or offer suggestions.
There has been virtually no movement on the list so they felt it was better not to keep taking names and just letting the list grow. They do plan to try and find out if everyone who is on the list is still interested, etc.
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Soparents
Citizen
Username: Soparents
Post Number: 382
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
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Kevin is right on target.
I was told that a great many "long time residents" renew their permits year after year purely as it is convenient should they take a train occasionally, they know they have somewhere to park. I was also told that there was nothing they could do about it. People produce the correct documentation and cheque to renew a permit and that's all that is needed. Nothing can be said.
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Stuart0628
Citizen
Username: Stuart0628
Post Number: 272
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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That's all well and good, but then what happens on the day(s) that everyone shows up wanting to park? If you oversubscribe the parking, there has to be some way for those with permits to park. Short of running a valet service, I don't see how one does that.
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kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 708
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 1:51 pm: |
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Stuart,
Not everyone takes the train at the same time and not everyone utilizes a permit spot for the whole day. The village has other lots a bit further away from the station that usually aren't filled with permit vehicles. There are permit spots on a daily basis that get used by non-permit vehicles. Sometimes they get ticketed, sometimes they don't. The parking authority should enforce the permit spots as well as the metered spots, for any ticket they write is revenue for their department.
There are different types of parking permits: resident/commuter, night, employees (store). The commuters get their choice of spots in lots: 7, 7A, 3A, and 10. The parking authority "guarantees" that space is available but not in any specific space or lot.
I'm going to hear opposition for this idea, but how about raising the price of the standard commuter permit and selling a new category permit to residents which is cheaper and only valid at off-peak times? Allow the off-peak permits to park on certain streets once the lots are full so that they can be guaranteed a spot as well.
I don't like the idea of street parking like Maplewood has, but it's really the only way (other than valet) to guarantee spots - even if you don't oversell.
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Lewisinsov
Citizen
Username: Lewisinsov
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 2:50 pm: |
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How about putting all new permits on eBay and sell them to the highest bidder, regardless of where they live? Then we could use the proceeds to pay down the village's debt (with any excess being used to fund artwork, perhaps). |
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