| Author | Message | ||
     Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 311 Registered: 5-2005 |
I just called around to try and get a copy of our water quality report. I called the pumping station and was told that the new reports are "in the mail" and we should be receiving them in a couple of days. This is something I will definately be reading. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4051 Registered: 5-2001  |
Soparents, As I recall, we have received a "quality" report every year which shows the levels of various elements in the water. It has always been deemed to be "safe". It does not make a judgement of whether it is "good". | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 312 Registered: 5-2005 |
That's my point, I know what I think of my water..... We almost lost our new dishwasher and washing machine due to the hard water We had to install a water softener We have to use a water purifier for any water we want to drink or our children to drink Our water smells funny.... As said, this is something I will definately be reading and then take things from there. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2760 Registered: 4-2002 |
As I have stated before, I had to get a water softener long before East Orange Water came into the picture. I know the previous owners of my house had one too and I know my in'laws had one when they lived here (from 1955 - 75). The water tasted lousy when I moved here (in 12/1985), so I signed up for delivery (now with Poland Spring). | ||
| Steve Hickson Citizen Username: Shickson Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2006  |
If the outcome of the report is positive perhaps we could start "South Orange Springs" or "Avenue Springs"---bottle and market our own original brand of healthy urban nectar---proceeds could be used to fund the "Coming Soon Gourmet Food Store"---maybe we could even sell "South Orange Springs" at the "Coming Soon Gourmet Food Store"---the possibilities are endless. | ||
| argon_smythe Citizen Username: Argon_smythe Post Number: 826 Registered: 5-2001 |
Who is this Steve Hickson guy and why haven't we heard from him sooner! | ||
| Steve Hickson Citizen Username: Shickson Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 |
Hi Argon, I am new to town---just 2 years---and recently have been made much more aware of some of the issues and introduced to maplewoodonline.com. I love South Orange---that's why my wife and I decided to move here from Manhattan 2 years ago. Unfortunately, she passed away in early April after a long bout with breast cancer---now, I am spending more time out and about town and meeting some very smart, very concerned and very passionate people---who have one goal in mind---to make South Orange an even better place to live. I am happy to help in any way possible---of course, it will be a challenge for me since I am in advertising/marketing and travel a lot---but I definitelty plan to become more involved. It's easy for anyone to sit back and bitch on a message board---a lot harder to really get involved and make a difference. I hope I can achieve that goal. I get concerned when I hear lifelong residents of this town say things like "I might have to leave, I don't know if I can stay and watch my town die"---that is sad---it's also sad when you think about the demographics of South Orange, the strong residential tax base we must have, the strength of the national economy the last several years, new infrastructure like Midtown Direct Rail service, and towns improving all around us---yet, our downtown does not even come close to the level of our neighbors like Maplewood and Millburn. It leads one to ask---what is going on? I'm not into personal attacks on any of the Trustees or Bill Calabrese---quite frankly, I don't know enough about the issues at this point to lay blame on any one or group of individuals. I know Bill from his pharmacy---and did a lot of business with him the last two years as my wife was very sick from cancer---he is a nice guy and I have tremendous respect for him and his business---Bill and his staff treated us with tremendous care and respect and I will gladly continue to support his business. But at the same time---as a concerned citizen of this town---it is time to get more involved and share some perspective. I hope I can help in some small way. South Orange has a lot of potential. And I hope this addresses your question. Argon, thanks for your interest. Steve Hickson | ||
| vermontgolfer Supporter Username: Vermontgolfer Post Number: 432 Registered: 12-2002 |
Steve, Sorry to hear of your loss. I'm glad to see your interest in this town and the care you are showing. We have lived here for 23 years and I hope to be here at least another 23. We do all need to keep a level head about all this, but we must do something to allow this town to reach it's true potential. I look forward to meeting you someday. Maybe we can share marketing stories. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 364 Registered: 2-2006 |
Steve, please accept my condolences about your wife. So sorry to hear about her and your loss. But thank you for your interest and commitment to the town. As you are beginning to realize, it really needs alert capable people caring enough about it to pay attention to what is happening here. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1562 Registered: 3-2002 |
Steve, let me add to the condolences already stated. We are glad to have you here, as another interested and engaged member of the community. There is a huge difference between saying the town is going through a rocky and contentious spot and saying that the town is dying. I have to admit that I can't understand the perspective of those who say the latter. This is a strong and vibrant town, and will make it through the mess downtown, however painful it may be right now. I'm sure this is a very different town than it was thirty years ago, and I'm sure that that loses us some residents, especially given the impact of our property taxes on those who are retired. However, many of us have moved here because of the town that it has become, and will strive to keep it strong. Welcome. | ||
| Steve Hickson Citizen Username: Shickson Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2006 |
vermontgolfer, SOrising and susan1014, Thank you for your notes and thoughts---always good to hear from terrific neighbors and thank you for welcoming me to South Orange and maplewoodonline.com. And Susan, I could not agree with you more---the positives of South Orange greatly outweigh the negatives and this is not a dying town---but it is true that some in town feel that way---I do hope to contribute in some way and my confidence in South Orange only increases as I read the postive comments and encouragement from you, SOrising and vermontgolfer---thank you. As FYI to vermontgolfer, I am fortunate to own a small country home in Ludlow, Vermont---about 10 minutes from Okemo Mountain and the Okemo Valley Golf Club--if you have not played Okemo give it a try---its a fun and beautiful course. Steve Hickson | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1255 Registered: 5-2001  |
My mother-in-law visited this weekend and she almost gagged when she tasted the tap water (before I told her to use the filtered). WHY CAN'T WE HAVE DECENT WATER?? We pay for it, for pete's sake! I have contacted the water company numerous times, with very (VERY) little satisfaction. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 648 Registered: 6-2005 |
I had written the water company a letter months ago, and no one had the courtesy of answering. | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1258 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yes, I did that too. Sent to a woman whose name escapes me...the Commissioner | ||
| Walker Citizen Username: Fester Post Number: 261 Registered: 4-2003  |
So we received in the mail yesterday the South Orange Water Report "Presented or Proudly Presented "not sure which” by South Orange Village". According to the report or water is wonderful with very little if any contamination. The report does not make any mention of the hardness of the water, the only mention of mineral content I could find was copper and lead levels which were attributed to corrosion in the pipes. After the concerns raised by a number of South Orange citizens to the Board about the quality of our water why is no mention made in this mailing about the problem and what is being done to correct it? This would have been a perfect opportunity for the Town to provide some information on the problem. | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1259 Registered: 5-2001 |
Coverup, most likely. The water tastes like metal and I sometimes find small pebbles blocking faucets and the hardness is ridiculous. Ugh! | ||
| wnb Citizen Username: Wnb Post Number: 370 Registered: 8-2001 |
No mention is made in this mailing about "the problem" because this mailing is part of "the problem." I am ordering a test kit and conducting my own analysis of the water to compare to this report. I will post results when complete. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2773 Registered: 4-2002 |
Walker: I can't wait to see this report. I have not seen it and I am guessing that it was sent by East Orange Water (EOW). The primary concern has been about the hardness of the water (which has been a problem in S. Orange for a very long time). EOW is doing upgrades to the system that will bring in softer water, which actually started about three weeks ago. Residents in most of the town should be noticing improvements. I think initially the water may have become cloudier because whenever you start up an unused pipe system there’s bound to be some sediment, but by now the water should be softer (although the water will still be considered hard water). | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1260 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mr. Rosner, do you have any more specifics about what they are doing and what prompted them to make these changes? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9426 Registered: 4-1997  |
It appears we've doubled the number of industrial pollutants in our water supply since changing over to East Orange Water Co.   | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9427 Registered: 4-1997 |
(Note these aren't recent tests and the items being tested seem to change year by year. My source is http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/ ) | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3281 Registered: 5-2001  |
I think with a little more dioxin and just a touch more of chloroform, we'd have something suitable for the marketing campaign Steve Hickson described. (Welcome, Steve!) | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2774 Registered: 4-2002 |
SOsully: The changes were prompted because of complaints (Residents and the village). I am not sure of all the changes. | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 329 Registered: 5-2005 |
I am trying to get my head round the water quality report... It states that "Well #17, located in Grove Park" is one of our water sources. It goes to to say elsewhere that "to ensure the continued quality of our water, chlorine is added for disinfection. Well #17 water is passed through an air stripper to remove any volatile organic chemicals (VOC's). No other treatment is required." I wanted to see what our water was like without the wate softener so I turned it off. The water is terrible to drink and actually smells, so I can only image what it is doing to our appliances (the softener is now back on). "To ensure the continued quality of our water"??? The hardness is a problem, the taste is a problem. I have a call into them to ask some questions. I cannot blame the pipes etc. I have tastes friends water in Millburn, Maplewood, Montclair, West Orange and Bloomfield. Their houses range from new to 1905, none of the water tastes as bad as ours. They made a point of drawing our attention to Well 17. What is being done to the rest of our water sources? Trustee Rosner, I appreciate your taking the time to tell us about the softer water coming in. I for one would not have known about this if you had not told us! I also wouldn't have noticed, and will not notice a difference as like a lot of people round here (yourself included) we had the need to buy a water softener. Still, it is hopefully a step in the right direction. | ||
| Walker Citizen Username: Fester Post Number: 262 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mark: Thanks for the quick response as always. The mailing is titled The Annual Water Quality Report Proudly Presented By Township Of South Orange Village. With the return address as Village Hall Did the town pay for this? | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1261 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thank you Mr. Rosner. If EOW does this it will restore my faith in....something  Can you give us an update on this in the coming weeks? Or maybe an announcement at a BOT meeting. Reading the report makes me a little suspicious. First of all, under many categories we are either at the high limit or close to it. That can't be good. It would be nice to see the same data from neighboring towns as a comparison. Secondly, many of the counts are right at the maximum allowable value in the range. That's a little too convenient. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 598 Registered: 1-2004  |
Mark, do you have any details to the EOW upgrade. Is it just purchasing water from Newark by opening the valve to their system? Also, do you have any further update to the question I raised on the water rate we are being charged by EOW versus the rate stated in our ordinances? Last years billing was at the rate $43.50 and now at $45.10 versus Ordinance of $41.18 per 1,000 cubic feet. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2776 Registered: 4-2002 |
SO sully: I was thinking the same thing about seeing reports from neighboring towns. Howie: Mr. Gross has not gotten back to the BOT with answers to those questions yet. I do not know if buying water from Newark was the only change but I am pretty sure that it was a significant part of the solution. Walker: I still have not seen the report and have no idea where it came from or who paid for it. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 599 Registered: 1-2004 |
Thanks, I think Ed Matthews was to answer the ordinance question. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 650 Registered: 6-2005 |
Here is the deal on the water problem, which I was told by someone who works at East Orange Water. South Orange's water today is very hard and has about 300ppm of calcium. The reason is that all of South Orange's water is well water, i.e. the water from East Orange water plus the well in Grove Park. 20 years ago South Orange softened the well water but ran into problems with the sodium content exceeding limits. (Softeners exchange calcium for sodium.) More recently, South Orange sourced water from American Water, whose water is surface water and therefore contains far less calcium and is softer. Two years ago, the town began sourcing from East Orange Water and hardness levels rose dramatically. In response to citizen uproar, Gross had a meeting with East Orange Water to see what could be done. As an interim step, they have begun to "dilute" East Orange well water with Newark surface water - 75% EO water / 25% Newark water. (Newark water has 60ppm of calcium.) The people who will benefit from this blend are in the lower terrains in town, as the blended water will not reach the upper areas, like Newstead. EO Water is taking readings of the water from several locations in town to measure what happens to the hardness. The way to help all areas of town is to bring in NJ American water as that will come in in greater quantities than they are able to source from Newark. NJ American water, however, is supposedly more expensive. (I wonder how expensive given the cost of damage to appliances etc. we are incurring!) Another possible alternative would be capital improvement which would permit greater quantities of Newark water to be fed into our system. Why this could not be explained to residents by the powers that be is a mystery to me. | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 332 Registered: 5-2005 |
Thank you JayJay - that answered a lot of questions for me. Questions that I have been on the phone with the water company asking and not been given those answers... I have friends in Maplewood, Millburn, East Orange, Orange, West Orange, Bloomfield and Montclair looking for a copy of their water bill that they can give to me and also if they have them, their water quality reports. Mr. Rosner told us that softer water was coming in, but as I said before, since a great many people in SO have had to invest in a water softener due to the quality/hardness etc of the water, I am sure that it won't make any difference to them, and without him making mention on MOL, people may have been none the wiser. The water quality (lack of??) is a great concern, and I have to wonder, along with you, why the BOT have not explained the points/answers you posted to us. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2778 Registered: 4-2002 |
Soparents: I did say softer water was coming in, but S. Orange will still have hard water. I still think it is a good idea to have a water softener and/or a water filter. I am not going to get into a whole online debate, but Jayjay's post is not a complete story of the water situation. Our contract is with EOW and we can't just bring in another water source (even if it was the same cost - there are legal issues). I will repeat the hardness of the water has been a problem long before S. Orange switched to E. Orange Water. Some of the issues with the water and the needed capital improvements dates back to the 70's. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonhw Post Number: 107 Registered: 1-2004 |
And you cannot even complain to the BPU since EOW is not a regulated utility but rather contracted on an Interlocal Agreement where one municipality provides services to another on a negotiated basis. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 652 Registered: 6-2005 |
Since parts of the town will not benefit from the softer water, if what EOW says is correct, what options are being sought for those people in those areas? All fronts should be explored...the capital equipment needs and costs to increase flow from Newark water, as well as legal means to gain the ability to source elsewhere. Is anyone working on those possibilities, and others if there are any? Let's say capital equipment costs would be in the million dollar range, wouldn't that bring more benefits to residents than money being spent on Tau? $250,000 would at least pay for a good chunk of the costs. Water softeners are a big chunk of money to lay out plus the ongoing costs? Its easy to say get a water softener, but for many residents that's not possible. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2781 Registered: 4-2002 |
jayjay: I think the legal issues need to be sorted out first. I am not sure you understand. Even if we bring in another water supplier or more water from other sources including Newark, we will probably still have hard water. Water softeners will probably still be needed. My in'laws had one when they lived here in the 50's/60's. This is not something new to residents. They can be leased for about ten dollars a month plus the cost of the salt. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 653 Registered: 6-2005 |
My understanding is that there is a big difference in calcium content between well water and surface water. Newark water is surface water as supposedly is the water from American. The hard water in the 50'5 and 60's was no doubt due to the well water which was the source for South Orange water then as it is now, only now it comes from different wells. Apparently when South Orange softened the well water before it was fed to households back then, it ran into problems and had to discontinue that practice. That would account for your inlaws' problems back then, and why we are back in the same situation now. Water softeners, if you can get over the cost outlay, help the pipes but the sodium content makes drinking it a bad idea if you have or are prone to high blood pressure. The best solution is water with lower calcium content at the start. I think we should examine all options to get to that point, for all parts of the village. If it means higher water costs, then let's have a public forum on the pros and cons. We should also get together with towns who source from the same place, and see if there is power in numbers to come up with a collective solution. Fianlly, we need to insure that any future contracts take quality of the water as well as safety of the water into account and have standards included to address that point into any contract. BTW, how long does the EOW contract run? Anyone know? | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 440 Registered: 4-2002 |
OK I know there's lots of talk about hard/soft water and surface vs well water, but I am not understanding why the quality has noticably declined in the last couple years. When we moved here, the water was drinkable, the dishwasher cleaned dishes and I did not get crust all over my shower heads. Now, if I pour a glass of tap water, there is stuff floating in the bottom, the dishes coming out of the dishwasher continue to look filthy and I need to CLR my shower. What has happened in the last 3-4 years that has made the original water condition that much worse, and why can't we return to whatever mix/origin of water we were using at that point in time? Sheesh, who would have thought that a community like SO that we are having to fight for water that isn't borderline dangerous and that comes out of the taps in a drinkable condition? | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 654 Registered: 6-2005 |
Campbell29- According to East Orange Water, South Orange began sourcing from them 2 years ago, rather than American Water. Simply put, EOW's water has a much higher calcium level because it comes from wells underground, and the water dissolves the calcium minerals it passes through, and that calcium winds up in our water. This is what I learned from EOW. American water is not well water and thus doesn't have the high calcium levels. What I don't understand is why the village changed to EOW, and why when it did, it did not include a standard on dissolved minerals, calcium specifically. I don't understand either if there are other water companies South Orange could buy from. | ||
| SOSully Citizen Username: Sullymw Post Number: 1262 Registered: 5-2001 |
I believe we are stuck in some long-term contract for the next 10 years or so. Still, putting aside the hard water issue for a sec, we should have drinkable water, which most of us agree we do not have. I would think that the threat of legal action unless EOW provides safe, drinkable water is not out of the question. campbell: you are right. it is completely absurd that a town as affluent as SO does not have drinkable tap water. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 915 Registered: 5-2004  |
My constantly thirsty 5 year old actually gagged, spit out the water in his mouth and started to cry and rub at his tongue this morning after brushing his teeth! He said "something is rotten in the water!" We usually drink bottled water, but he is always so thirsty that he often drinks the water from the tap after rinsing out his toothpaste. I am quite alarmed by his reaction this morning and think the recently received propaganda piece claiming our water is lovely is a tasteless joke! Too bad our delightful water isn't tasteless!  |
