| Author | Message | ||
     Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3107 Registered: 5-2004  |
Maybe the recent murder on SO Ave was performance art... To quote the Joker "I make art until someone dies." Not to cause too much thread drift, but... If an associate and I are performance artists, and our next performance will consist of me shooting him in the head, and he has agreed to this, and it is all in the name of art, should I be arrested for murder? Can I use "you just don't understand our art" as a defense? | ||
| Diastole Citizen Username: Diastole Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2005  |
Hey, I'm a little confused. I've been traveling alot lately, and out of touch with MOL. I've come back to find a debate on whether the BOT is now approving art? So I did a little reading, and saw this in a post by this Soda person: 'Pizzaz, supposedly a member of the Recreation and Cultural Affairs Advisory Committee, has been entirely silent here on the subject of this thread, choosing instead to be represented by innuendo and the same sorry inanities he generates all day long in the Virtual Cafe.' Then, Pizzaz (he's not a Trustee, is he?) says "'Pop goes the weasel, again. The committee referred to is the one chaired by Art Taylor and not me." And now Trustee Rosen is saying that the BOT doesn't handle decisions on art? Well, what about TAU? I may be wrong here, but isn't the Flood's Hill area where that other big art installation (statues of women, or whatever it was?) was set up? I thought that the Baird Gallery is operated by the town, and that the town supports the arts here. What gives? Could somebody explain the connection between the BOT and this Advisory Committee? Should I go to this meeting next week? Thanks. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2767 Registered: 4-2002 |
Diastole: Actually, you don't sound that confused. You seem to have as good a grasp on this as most. The BOT appointed members of the advisory board. And sure, go to the meeting next week. | ||
| hariseldon Citizen Username: Hariseldon Post Number: 437 Registered: 5-2001  |
And indeed, if Pizzaz as chairman of this little advisory group, ttempted to deflect criticism by falsely leading readers to believe he was NOT on the committee, (Art chairs it, not me), then I believe that he has no business serving the Village in an official capacity and should be removed immediately from his position of authority and power! | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9403 Registered: 4-1997  |
Diastole, It kind of works like this: If there's a popular decision/event/etc., then the Trustees take credit and print it up in their campaign flyers. If there's a negative reaction to a decision, the Trustees act like they don't know anything and say the Advisory Committee recommended it. | ||
| Diastole Citizen Username: Diastole Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2005 |
I'm going to that meeting. | ||
| SoOrLady Citizen Username: Soorlady Post Number: 3314 Registered: 9-2003 |
There have been at least two other artists' displays in that part of town. Closer to Ridgewood Road and nearer the duck pond, there were a number of statues posed in moments of grief to commerate (I think) the downing of the plane in Locherby. As I recall it was quite powerful. When the Two Towns composition was performed last year an artist stretched colorful fabric across the bulk of the field... reminiscent of "The Gates". To my knowledge, no one complained about either display. I suppose that the flowerful gun is doing what such art is supposed to do, and that is to provoke thought and conversation. It just hits a little too close to home for me... and perhaps many in our community feel the same. I don't need a gun on the hill to remind us that Marine reservest Augie Schroeder was not greeted with flowers - my heart reminds me every day. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3443 Registered: 5-2001  |
And we need never to forget Augie and the other -2700+ Americans who have died in a war where they were supposed to be "greeted with flowers". JTA , this exhibit does not disrespect our sons and daughters in Iraq. It just asks pople to remember why they are there and who sent them and for what reason. Draw your own conclusions. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 480 Registered: 1-2006 |
Nancy: It is a political statement, masquerading weakly as art. Your own post indicates you can read between the petals. So, if the town committee of unelected volunteers wanted the town to take a political position, they could have given a heads up before spoiling the field. jd | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3444 Registered: 5-2001 |
Joel, All Art Is Political . | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9404 Registered: 4-1997 |
Speaking of Augie, what ever happened to his "permanent memorial" in South Orange that Art Taylor promised at his memorial service to his parents and sister? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 481 Registered: 1-2006 |
Nancy: Bunkum. jd | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9405 Registered: 4-1997 |
All art is political (if you want it to be). the need for absolute definitions is so western civ | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5022 Registered: 1-2004  |
Mark Are you saying you don't have a problem with the gun on the hill? I think it sends a double message to our children. Nevermind the 'anti war' message it's suppose to send. Let's forget that for a second. The have been stories in the news over the past year of children as young as Kindergarden being suspended from school for something as simple and innocent as making a paper gun, drawing a gun, even pointing their finger at another student in the formation of a gun. Even when kids have played 'cops and robbers' they got into trouble. Students aren't allowed to wear clothing to school with guns on them. Well maybe one of these students is wearing this clothing to 'protest the war.' We all know if a high school student wore a shirt with Bush on the front and a flower outline of a gun over Bush's face (as with those red anti smoking things) the student would be dragged to the office. Who posting here has actually gone and looked at the plastic flower gun? Why does it have to be where children play? Why not relocate it to the Baird Center? BTW Can someone tell me who pays the salary of the person guarding the plastic flower gun? From what I understand someone watches from across the brook until at least Midnight each night. Nancy- you know I have a lot of respect for you, but in this case let's just agree to disagree. Some of the people I know who have lost loved ones feel it is. As I've posted several times -I do NOT agree with the war, but I also believe the hill is not the place to protest it. And we need to remember there is no draft!!! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5023 Registered: 1-2004 |
I might have some of the names spelt wrong, but it was hard enough to even get this information from the town. From what I was told from someone I spoke to in village Hall the Recreation Advisory Board are: Frank Rodino Gregg Gruber Neil Jasey Mike Bourke Mimiam Sumner Al Lester Ellen Foye Blaze Pognay Larry Frollich Mark Vorhees Donna Dreupanck Andrea Johnson James Grayes If you know any of these people in RL -TALK TO THEM before Tuesday. And if you know I mispelt a name please correct me. I felt like I was pulling teeth getting the names. And even when I asked for a name to be spelt the person mumbled and spoke faster then I could write. | ||
| hariseldon Citizen Username: Hariseldon Post Number: 438 Registered: 5-2001 |
JTA, why did you (purposely?) misspell your buddy Pizzaz's name? Surely no one needs to spell it for you. And did they really say Blaze or are you trying to confuse people who don't know that John has a nickname? | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1429 Registered: 7-2004  |
That is not a nickname. It is his name. Check your facts. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5024 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hari I wrote the names down as they were told to me. The woman I spoke to told me 'Blaze.' I said "You mean 'John?'" She got snippy and said "I told you 'Blaze.' I'm sure as you look over the list you will find other names spelt wrong. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5025 Registered: 1-2004 |
I have a suggestion that should make all the different sides of this debate happy. In light of the shooting / murder near Grove Park, I propose the 'art' from the hill be moved to Grove Park. I understand the artist's intention is for the 'art' to protest the war; but why not have it be a message against violent crime as a whole? Maybe adapt it in some way as well so people driving by who are unaware of the debate or what the intended message is supposed to be understands. For example, have one of those red circles with the diangle line across it on top of the plastic flower outline of the gun? This was at least 'some' message is getting out there. I spoke to a few people who think this would be a great compromise! Any thoughts? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2768 Registered: 4-2002 |
JTA: I am just saying I do not think the elected officials should decide what is art or is not. The debate to me is whether we should allow art to be displayed at that location. In the past, there have been other art exhibits at that location and nobody objected (to me). | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9412 Registered: 4-1997 |
Hope this helps  | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9413 Registered: 4-1997 |
 | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3448 Registered: 5-2001 |
Great forms Dave. I'll be glad to put a bunch at the Library for people to fill out if you like!! (Perhaps I should of posted "MOST art is Political! Sorry) | ||
| ril Citizen Username: Ril Post Number: 529 Registered: 6-2001 |
All public art should feature puppies, kittens and/or big-eyed children (fully clothed, of course). All private art,too, for that matter. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 644 Registered: 6-2005 |
I think the argument is broader than whether art should be allowed in that location. There is also the question of whether tax payer dollars should be used for such things...whether Tau or the gun on the hill. Even Christo paid the $22 million dollars for the Gates installation in Central Park himself. Did we taxpayers, some who may or some who may not agree with the gun on the hill, foot that bill as we are being hit up for Tau? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 483 Registered: 1-2006 |
We taxpayers have more money than Christo. jd | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 362 Registered: 2-2005 |
I am curious, does the Village collect any revenue for displays? maybe in the form of permit to use the space? | ||
| Spanish Inquisitor Citizen Username: Sinq Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2004  |
Probably. There are also charges for film crews. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1548 Registered: 4-2004  |
Film crews are (generally) commercial ventures. This project seems to be purely artistic and not for profit. My guess is no fee was required. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4079 Registered: 5-2001  |
Good editorial in today's News Record about the issue: Art in the park is under unfriendly fire Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:47 PM EDT South Orange may be considered an arts-friendly town, but the latest artistic installation to grace our village has residents fired up, and rightly so. The piece, called “We will be greeted with flowers,” is a floral representation of a semi-automatic assault rifle, the AK-47. It was created by New York artist Carlo Vialu, who installed the work on Flood’s Hill as part of an exhibit at the Pierro Gallery, which will run through July. On his Web site, Vialu has posted that the inspiration for the work came “from the image created by the Bush administration at the onset of the war in Iraq.” Vialu said the work expresses his views against the war. But taken at face value, what we’re seeing at Flood’s Hill is not an anti-war message: It’s the outline of an assault weapon. It’s not abstract or subject to interpretation. It’s a gun and, given the social context of what a gun represents, it has no place in the park, regardless of the artist’s peaceful message or intentions thereof. Make no mistake, Vialu’s inspiration is not being disputed, but the decision to display the work in a public park certainly is. Though the medium may be a soft way of portraying the weapon, its mere presence in a place children use as a playground warrants some explanation from trustees, who gave Vialu the green light to use the park as his stage. In that vein, residents incensed about the trustees’ decision to approve the project confronted members of their governing body last week during a meeting in Village Hall. The residents said they wanted the piece dismantled and removed from the park’s lawn. But village officials resisted, deeming the removal a form of art censorship. Village President Bill Calabrese told the citizens he found nothing offensive about the art, noting the piece reminded him of the ‘love-not-guns’ message of the 1960s and ‘70s. In fact, the only shred of comfort he left with residents is that, the next time the trustees are confronted with a decision to allow art in a public arena, the work will be reviewed more carefully. The overarching question is: by whom? The trustees? Now, come on. As we’re all aware, this isn’t the first art debacle in town. Recall the incident in the mid-1990s, when passions were stirred over sculptures of nude women prominently displayed at Flood’s Hill. And what about the ongoing battle residents are stoking with trustees and art enthusiasts regarding the Tony Smith sculpture? Granted, the uproar regarding Smith’s “Tau” is mostly rooted in the fact that residents are contesting the tax dollars that are going to fund it, along with the placement of the art, rather than the art itself. But this incident certainly speaks to the fact that trustees are clearly not in the right position to decide on art for the town. That’s not to say we’re art critics, but we understand, when artwork is being considered for public display, serious consideration must be given as to what message is being relayed and how the work will be interpreted by the general public. There’s no reason for the artwork to be at Flood’s Hill. If anything, it’s free advertising for Vialu. It serves no social function and it’s certainly not something most residents will view as a draw when it comes to taking their families to the park. After all, how can you explain the larger context of this work to a child? How do you explain that a gun is symbolic of someone’s disdain for war and is actually a public outcry for peace? If peace is what we’re trying to advocate and encourage, and we want to do so in a public space, why not choose something that’s not patently offensive; something that sets a clear agenda and isn’t subject to interpretation, misinterpretation or otherwise? Furthermore, trustees are elected to conduct town business, and that should be the main focus. Selecting and securing art for the village is something best left to the art advocates, not the governing body. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9441 Registered: 4-1997 |
Why don't people opposed to it convene one day and disassemble it gently and in the open, placing all the pieces into a box, which would be shipped to the artist with a note explaining the action and the need to erect it in towns that don't have children in their parks? A simple, thanks, but no thanks. The action would be performance art and so would be covered under the First Amendment. The performance art (titled "Sending a Message"?) perhaps could be funded by a grant to cover refreshments, the box and postage. | ||
| Buzzsaw Citizen Username: Buzzsaw Post Number: 4742 Registered: 5-2001  |
^ That is a great idea. I like that. Though I would ship the flowers in a fake casket. | ||
| K_soze Citizen Username: K_soze Post Number: 240 Registered: 11-2005  |
Good idea, where do we get the refreshments? Cryan's or Bunny's | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1559 Registered: 4-2004 |
Does anybody know how long this display is scheduled to remain? I assume it isn't permanent. At least the artist could have shaped the flowers like an American gun; the AK-47 is the weapon that U.S. troops have been shot with for 40 years- make it an M-16... | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9443 Registered: 4-1997 |
(that's the point... it's named for Herr Rumsfeld's "greeted with flowers" comment) | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 1955 Registered: 8-2002 |
Recall the "floating lillies" made of 1000's of empty soda bottles from a year or two ago in the duck pond? If it had been a school or scout project, well, possibly ok. But it was similarly artistic display to this thing at Floods Hill. (except that floating flowers didn't set off the politicial controversy that the gun has). Putting aside the $$ spent on this stuff -- if the majority in town find it objectionable, well, then perhaps these things are just not appropriate for South Orange! Pete | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1560 Registered: 4-2004 |
July 16th is the removal date, according to the artist's website. But maybe some of those urbane sophisticates who attend the fireworks each year can get an early start on July 4th... | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3464 Registered: 5-2001 |
Right now I am embarrassed to live in upscale South Orange.Would getting some of my computer saavy friends together to hack into and "reconfigure" any websites I disaprove of constitute "performance art"? I think not, I would see it as vandalism. | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 333 Registered: 5-2005 |
Nancy - Library-Lady, Why embarrassed? | ||
| Soparents Citizen Username: Soparents Post Number: 334 Registered: 5-2005 |
Sorry, my post crossed.. |
