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Message |
    
ttwizard
Citizen
Username: Ttwizard
Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 9:38 pm: | 
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I was on the Midtown Direct train earlier today and an elderly woman tripped and fell an needed medical assistance while we were stopped at the SO Train Station.
The police responded within 10 minutes but the EMT response took at least 25 minutes.
This is unacceptable. If this were a life threatening injury, I cannot imagine what the result would have been. Has anyone experienced something like this before? |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 860
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 9:45 pm: |
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ttwizard: U answered your own question. They do have to prioritize and I doubt that a fall will get first priority. We don't have 200 ambulances here and they were probably on call or en route to or from one of the hospitals. I know they can borrow from neighboring towns if it is a true life threatening emergency. |
Tuxedo
Citizen
Username: Tuxedo
Post Number: 65
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 10:19 pm: |
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If you are refering to the SO Rescue Square, they are an awesome group of people, who were probably on a more important life-threatening call.
Listen, as far as I am concerned, SO residents should be making regular financial contributions to the SORS, they are our life saving link.
I've only had to call them once, but they responded quickly, as did the SOPD and were professional and competent.
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Tuxedo
Citizen
Username: Tuxedo
Post Number: 66
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 10:20 pm: |
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Bajou: is that your new kitten? Very nice specimen. |
ttwizard
Citizen
Username: Ttwizard
Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 11:51 pm: |
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I hope so. The woman had some type of head injury that required bandaging. She was laid out for quite awhile before the Rescue folks arrived. Thanks for your insight. |
combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 154
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 2:37 am: |
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SO Police responded within ten minutes? Ten minutes from when she tripped, or ten minutes from when the call was made. If it's the latter then I'm sure it was sooner than that. I would like to point out, when you're waiting for the police, two or three minutes can seem like ten. This is also true for ambulances. It is very rare that you will actually see a 25 minute response on an ambulance. I'm not saying it NEVER happens, but it is rare. I know people are going to start quoting examples, but believe me, those are exceptions. In South Orange both the volunteer and paid service have very acceptable response times.
There are a lot of variables involved here. What time was the call? During weekdays the town uses a paid service, in the evening and on weekends they use a volunteer service. You will see the volunteers out during the day as back-up if the paid service is already out on another call. Also, be aware that sometimes the ambulance might be in another town taking a mutual aid call, a courtesy that goes both ways. The nature of the call (as someone already pointed out) can also go into prioritizing the response. Head injuries are serious, but something more serious like a cardiac arrest or a trauma would obviously take priority. People watching the scene tend to get tunnel vision, forgetting that there may be other medical emergencies going on in town that are of a more urgent nature. I know that the person waiting for an ambulance may not want to hear this, but it is an unfortunate fact of life.
Also, where was the call made from. A payphone will get you a much quicker response time than a cell phone. If someone dialed 911 from their cell phone, they were likely bounced around until they reached the correct town, which will obviously add to the dispatch time. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11987
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 4:06 am: |
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There was a similar situation last year because of an accident at the SO pool. I think the actual call did bounce around the system for awhile. The ambulance company SO uses had pretty good records.
The thought of a ten minute response time for the police and nearly a half an hour for an ambulance is scary. The police should be there in five minutes or less and the ambulance should follow shortly.
There is also a chance that the conductor contacted NJ Transit and they responded NJ Transit Police, which is always going to take longer and may have delayed notifying the ambulance until the police checked out the situation. I think there was something about this on MOL also awhile ago. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1629
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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Tuxedo,
I do make annual financial contributions to the Rescue Squad. I also expect them to be able to muster fast response, one way or another. If they cannot, then it is time to discuss whether the current model is sufficient to the needs of our town.
I don't know the details of this incident, but do wonder whether the response was by the local volunteers or by the day coverage service that I believe we use due to the difficulty of finding daytime volunteers. Is it time to have paid day coverage that is actually based in town (I don't think the current one is)?
Also, in this day and age, blaming slow response on cell phones is getting old. Pay phones are very hard to find in many places now, so we need solutions that work. (I know that this is beyond the scope of a local problem, but I don't accept it as an excuse anymore) |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 864
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:30 pm: |
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Dear Tux:
No not my new kitten god help me..three dogs, one cat, one fish...I am already borderline "the crazy lady" LOL |
Tuxedo
Citizen
Username: Tuxedo
Post Number: 67
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 1:53 pm: |
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Bajou: Aw, well it's a cute kitten and good on ya for being such an animal lover. You want our brood of cats? They are keeping me up at night and eating us out of house and home.  |
Michael S. Koenemund
Citizen
Username: Kb1ckf_981
Post Number: 57
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 2:43 pm: |
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Susan,
I am a former Captain (2002-2004) and Life Member of the Rescue Squad, If the call for an ambulance for the woman who fell was between the times of 6:30 am - 6:30 pm the daytime coverage is MONOC Ambulance (a paid service that has Unit 906 based in South Orange on Crest Drive ), they would be the first to be called, if the call came in from 6:30 pm to 6:30 am The South Orange Rescue Squad (a crew is now at the building or at least with the ambulance for immediate response during these hours) would respond, The South Orange Rescue Squad requires the crew to be in house to cut the response times to incidents, prior to this happening they were available by pager and then had to drive to the headquarters and then respond in the ambulance, Response times have greatly decreased since the implimentation of this in house policy.
Everyone needs remember that the South Orange Rescue Squad is an all volunteer organization of caring individuals giving of their time ( for responding and training) inorder to respond in your greatest time of need, no one gets paid. There are volunteers from all walks of life, Nanny's, Teachers, Students, Municipal employees and more, maybe you can volunteer or maybe make a donation, every penny counts, medical supplies and emergency vehicles are expensive to purchase and maintain.
Michael S. Koenemund |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11995
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 5:36 pm: |
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Susan, as much as I would like to agree that 911 screwups with cell phones should be a thing of the past, they aren't. There was an article on the subject in a recent Consumer Reports on the subject. Things are slowly improving, but there are still issues in routing the call to the correct agency.
Maplewood has a similar set up to South Orange with the rescue squad only responding after normal work hours. The difference is that the Maplewood Fire Department responds during the day, not an ambulance company. We had the need to use this service a couple of years ago during the day and the response time was just a few minutes. |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 395
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 6:52 pm: |
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People gauge response time from the time the incident occurs...Response time is when the agency is notified to respond.
If someone fell at the train station, depending who made notifications, your talking about SOPD, SORS or Other Ambulance Service, NJ Transit train crew, NJ Transit Police, and all of these agencies dispatch operations.
What I am saying here is this is a complicated case and isn't the norm. Response times are delayed because of multi jurisdiction, or the cell problem that now complicates 911.
If you call 911 from your house on Any street in South Orange, chances are a cop is there in 45 seconds, and an ambulance is soon to follow without delay.
I have seen worse delays because houses are not numbered or well lit. I have seen police cars shining lights on houses on Vose Avenue, pulling up and then slaming on breaks for half the block looking for a house, and then backing back down the street a few doors. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1631
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 10:39 pm: |
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Michael, thank your for the details. As I said, I give every year (with corporate matching funds). I deeply appreciate our volunteers, and am also concerned by potential coverage issues.
As much as I like the volunteer model, my greatest concern is that we actually have good coverage. In the absense of greater detail, I simply have to ask the question of whether the model is working. If it is, super. If not, then we have to revisit the model.
If the train station call is unique and represents a real problem with cell phones and or agency coordination, then perhaps it needs a specific solution. |
combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 156
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 4:01 pm: |
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susan1014 - The train station does not pose a problem with cell phones. Cell phones themselves are the problem, regardless of where they are used. Within the past year a police department in Essex County was trying to test their 911 system in regards to cell phones. The officer tried at least 3 times to dial 911 from his cell phone while standing in front of the police station. He was unable to get through to the correct town. This was only a test, imagine if this had been a real emergency. People would have been quick to blame the response on the police, fire or ambulance. And this is not an excuse, it is an unfortunate reality that cell phone technology is inadequate for emergency calls. Yes, your phone may have GPS, but this is NOT used to direct your call to the correct agency. While it may be possible to make this happen, I highly doubt it will in the near future.
ttwizard - I again would like to point out the difference between real and perceived response times. Were you watching a clock, marking the minutes from when the call was made to when they arrived? Or were you standing around asking yourself "Where is the ambulance?" I suspect it was the latter, and in cases like this a few minutes will seem to stretch on for a long time. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1634
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 6:10 pm: |
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Let me be more specific: Is there a pay phone on each platform? Is there an emergency police contact phone on each platform? I haven't looked recently.
I know that cell phones are part of the problem. Lack of land lines are another part. I finally had to get my babysitter a cell phone (at some expense) because so many pay phones had been removed around Maplewood and S.O.
If the for-profit phones have been removed, we may need to add some emergency phones to key places, at least until the cell 911 problem is solved. |
K_soze
Citizen
Username: K_soze
Post Number: 484
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 6:55 pm: |
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o not my new kitten god help me..three dogs, one cat, one fish...I am already borderline "the crazy lady"
Ugh, looks like someone lied to you about where that border was |
Fitzhume
Citizen
Username: Fitzhume
Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, July 1, 2006 - 12:08 am: |
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What time/ day did this incident happen? If it was during the hours that the Rescue Squad is on duty (and they were not already out on other calls) then the response time would typically be no more than 3 or 4 minutes, as they are waiting at the building on 3rd street to be dispatched the entire shift. The South Orange Police usually have a response time of under two or three minutes, as they are driving around the village. (Of course all of these times are AFTER the call comes in to the correct 911 center).
I do not know the average response times for MONOC, the paid service that covers the town during weekdays.
But knowing what time/ day the incident happened would make it easier to know why the wait was so long (assuming those times are accurate). |
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