| Author | Message | ||
     happyman Citizen Username: Happyman Post Number: 452 Registered: 6-2001 |
I went for bagels this morning and as I was parking the police jumped out of their cars and went to Sonny's which had its front window blown out. An elderly man with a bloody face was removed. I thought I saw the woman who works the counter and she looked OK. But I did not stay long. Having been at WTC-I, got back in my car and proceeded to Hot Bagels. As I was parking there, the fire engines rounded the corner and stopped. I was motioning to them that it was up the street when they got the same information over the radio. Was it an explosion, was everyone all right? My heart goes out to the gentleman, who you always see working the ovens in the back.  | ||
| Irvington Pirate Citizen Username: Irvingtonpirate Post Number: 76 Registered: 6-2005 |
That's so sad. I hope everyone is alright. | ||
| Fitzhume Citizen Username: Fitzhume Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 |
Apparently the oven exploded. Some kind of gas explosion. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 283 Registered: 2-2003 |
Any further news? It'll be my turn to bring in the bagels in a few weeks, and my co-workers will be disappointed if Sonny's is closed. | ||
| red_alert Citizen Username: Red_alert Post Number: 312 Registered: 3-2005 |
Will this be another Calabrese/Sayid purchase after a quick condemnation? | ||
| Debra Davidson Citizen Username: Peanutslady Post Number: 168 Registered: 5-2005  |
My prayers and good thought to the man that work the oven. Please dose anyone know how he is doing? Please did they find the cause of the gas explosion? I hope so. Then this way they can find away to prevent this from happening again. Thank God no one was killed. Again my prayers and good thought to the man that work the oven. | ||
| Matt Foley Citizen Username: Mattfoley Post Number: 737 Registered: 6-2004  |
remember when the bagels cost a quarter? Plus, you used to get a "baker's dozen". | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23535 Registered: 6-2001  |
I think you still got the extra when I was last there, about 2 weeks ago (baker's dozen = 12 + 1). I've heard (totally grapevine) that he will not reopen. I cannot believe I will never have another Sonny's Bagel again. | ||
| Sean Flood Citizen Username: Campus_sub_shop Post Number: 180 Registered: 6-2005 |
That would be sad. Sonny's Bagels was awesome. I hope they open again. | ||
| teach75 Citizen Username: Teach75 Post Number: 48 Registered: 3-2003 |
I find it an odd coincidence that Sonny's is closing in the Millburn Mall and the South Orange store had an explosion of some sort within the same week. I am not saying anything...just that it is weird. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5637 Registered: 1-2004  |
BETS This is really sad to hear. Sonny's hs been a part of South Orange as far back as I can remember. | ||
| kevin Supporter Username: Kevin Post Number: 794 Registered: 2-2002 |
You can still get Sonny's bagels. The bagels were based on the Watson recipe. Sonny's son owns Bagels-4-U. Many of the specialty bagels that Sonny's carried in the stores were actually baked in Bagels-4-U's Springfield warehouse/bakery and carted over. More info here: /discus/messages/62746/121604.html?1152758285 | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1672 Registered: 3-2002 |
Good to know, but doesn't help us much. In addition to loving the bagels, the fact that Sonny's store is kosher allows us to stock up the house without guilt. Bagels-4-U doesn't do that for us, so we continue to hope that Sonny's will rise again! | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 3943 Registered: 11-2001  |
As a kid I would bike ride to Watson's on Chancellor Avenue for their bagels. I can remember Sonny's opening in the Village and thinking it was a great addition and long overdue. I do hope he reopens. His bagels are the best! | ||
| I'm Only Sleeping Citizen Username: Imonlysleeping Post Number: 185 Registered: 8-2005 |
Where is Bagels-4-U? Sonny's was definitely the best bagel I'd found in the area. Real, old-style NY bagels. | ||
| kevin Supporter Username: Kevin Post Number: 796 Registered: 2-2002 |
Maybe SO will get a Bagels-4-U? Locations: http://bagels4u.com/Store_loc.htm Susan, I think that you might be onto something. Maybe Sonny's on the Ave didn't turn into a Bagels-4-U because they wanted a kosher place in the area since Bagels-4-U sells pork. I'm not sure how the whole kosher thing works, but if they cook the bagels in their kosher bakery and sell them in their store that sells pork, are the bagels still considered kosher? | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 287 Registered: 2-2003 |
Kevin-- Disclaimer: I'm not a rabbi, just a consumer of rabbinic services and bagels. There are stores (Zaro's in NY comes to mind) that have stuff baked in a central location and then shipped to local stores. They have a kosher section (with the baked goods) and a non-kosher section (with the deli meats). They would need to get a rabbi or agency to oversee and certify the process. They would also need to get enough of the kosher-eating public to buy into the notion that this is ok. Both of these are possible but not certain. Now here's a thought: Dunkin Donuts has some locations that are certified kosher and some that are not. The ones that are kosher don't sell breakfast sandwiches. If Bagels-4-U or anyone else wanted to test the waters with a location that doesn't sell meat, I'd welcome that! | ||
| Irvington Pirate Citizen Username: Irvingtonpirate Post Number: 77 Registered: 6-2005 |
Stuart, question for you because I am truly curious but Catholic so I don't know exactly how the Kosher stuff works. If Dunkin Donuts kept the meat and other meat related items in one fridge and the non-meat stuff in another would that work? I'm assuming you would need two microwaves and two toasters also. Is this correct? Thanks!  | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 295 Registered: 2-2003 |
Again let me preface by saying that the following answer may be technically oversimplistic and I am not a rabbi. Irvington, in the Dunkin case, the simplest answer would be not to try to have two sets of toasters etc. That just would be impossible to oversee effectively. Either have the whole store kosher, which means no ham croissandwiches among other things, or have any cooked items like breakfast sandwiches be non-kosher. Donuts trucked in from a central location could be Kosher subject to the rabbi's opinion. | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 743 Registered: 10-2005  |
People are more concerned about their bagels than the man who was wounded? Sheesh! | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1682 Registered: 3-2002 |
No Shanabana, but with no real information forthcoming, is there any harm in us talking about our future source of bagels? Also, I'm assuming that three days later, this accident would have been reported in the Star Ledger and/or the News Record if the employee in question had been badly injured. Of course we care if he is injured, but that isn't what we are choosing to discuss here. | ||
| kevin Supporter Username: Kevin Post Number: 798 Registered: 2-2002 |
No sense dwelling on the fact that someone was injured unless you can provide us more information, Shanabana. Same goes for the guy who worked the oven, he could have gotten safely out the back door for all we know at the moment. If someone got hit by a train, is it not okay for a commuter to ask in the same thread about the trains and how they should go about getting to work? Think of this. When someone in the future does a search on MOL for Sonny's, this thread will pop up and contain the necessary information for them to know that Sonny's might be shut down for good and that if they really want a Sonny's bagel, they could go to a Bagels-4-U store, which is where their specialty bagels came from. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1060 Registered: 2-2006  |
Actually the person was trying to light the pilot light and it was an older gentleman but not Sonny. That is what I have been told by somebody who walked by a minute after the explosion. The person had server burns on his face, head and upper body. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12141 Registered: 5-2001 |
Doesn't/didn't Sonny's Bagels supply Sonny Amster's bakery at the Millburn Mall that has closed? That might have been a significant amount of the bagel shop's business. Also given the similarity in names, there might be common ownership. | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 750 Registered: 10-2005 |
Touchy, aren't we! | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1684 Registered: 3-2002 |
Yes, as long as you include youself in the "we" -- you started the accusations  BobK, both Sonny's are indeed under the same ownership. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4425 Registered: 5-2001  |
Nice blog entry about Sonny's on Dan's latest blog: http://www.nj.com/weblogs/offtheshelf/ I was particularly amused by:
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| AGD4 Citizen Username: Agd4 Post Number: 64 Registered: 2-2003 |
It is very hard to believe that Bagels-4-U has the same recipe or are made the same way that Sonny's bagels were made. I have never found them to be anywhere near as good as those purchased at Sonny's. Sonny's had the best bagels in Essex County. Every other bagel in the area seems to be only baked or to have too much yeast. At Sonny's you could see that they dough was boiled before baked. Is the Sonny Amster in the Millburn Mall really the same ownership and do they make the bagels the same way? I do hope that they find a way to reopen in South Orange and especially that the employee is recuperating. | ||
| AGD4 Citizen Username: Agd4 Post Number: 65 Registered: 2-2003 |
It is very hard to believe that Bagels-4-U has the same recipe or are made the same way that Sonny's bagels were made. I have never found them to be anywhere near as good as those purchased at Sonny's. Sonny's had the best bagels in Essex County. Every other bagel in the area seems to be only baked or to have too much yeast. At Sonny's you could see that they dough was boiled before baked. Is the Sonny Amster in the Millburn Mall really the same ownership and do they make the bagels the same way? I do hope that they find a way to reopen in South Orange and especially that the employee is recuperating. | ||
| Xuande Citizen Username: Xuande Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2006  |
These were the only decent bagels in the area. The store must return. | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 215 Registered: 12-2004 |
Here is the real story. The pilot light on the oven went out, therefore, gas leaked. When the power was turned on, there was an explosion. One man named Luke was burned on the arm only. He will be ok, but he is still in St. Barnabas. Sonny would like very much to re-open his store, but he will have to invest a lot of money for repairs, and code compliance. Once some event triggers the South Orange officials, they can force you to do a lot of stuff to get the premises to meet their "standards." Sonny is more than willing to invest the money and make the store perfect, HOWEVER, for reasons not capable of being expressed, the landlord does not want to offer Sonny's Bagels a new lease. Without a lease, he is not willing, nor would it be advisable, to make any investment in the premises. Accordingly, Sonny is looking for another location in South Orange, and if any of you out there have any ideas, please share them with me. FYI: The bagels are/were baked in South Orange and then delivered to the Millburn Mall location. The other bakery items were baked in the mall location. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5647 Registered: 1-2004 |
Thank you Elaine for clearing this up. I had hoped someone 'official' would put to rest the veiled accusation this might have been intentional. What about where Quinzo's was supposed to open? Can Sonny open there? | ||
| Josh Holtz Citizen Username: Jholtz Post Number: 529 Registered: 4-2004 |
Thanks Elaine for the update. Sounds like another landlord with a master plan (Sonny's Bagel space + ex-Quiznos space)? | ||
| Strings Supporter Username: Blue_eyes Post Number: 893 Registered: 4-2004  |
Why not the little place on Village Plaza where Sweet Concessions used to be? (Next to It's A Wrap). That place has been closed for about a year and has had a lease for rent sign in the window for a while. It's already set up with a kitchen... | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3675 Registered: 5-2001  |
I hear that the Ethiopianplace from West Orange was gonna move in there. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5649 Registered: 1-2004 |
LL Where? The Quinzo's place or where SC was? | ||
| heart rn Citizen Username: Heart_rn Post Number: 181 Registered: 2-2003  |
Where Sweet Concessions was... I actually just noticed today that the sign is down and it looks like they're doing some work there. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1093 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hi Elaine: Is Luke the guy that worked there every day? I guess when my ex walked past the injuries looked worse. Thank god he is going to be ok. Is there something we can do for him. Plus who is the landlord of that building? I think after all these years you shouldn't deny your longtime tenant renewal. Can the town not intervene on behalf of Sonny's? Hey lets have a "we want Sonny's" back demonstration ...come on I am serious...lets get loud and call them out of their baloney hiding holes. This is somebodies livelyhood ...Come on let's pick a date!!!! | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 718 Registered: 6-2005 |
Before this incident, I had heard that the landlord of that strip of stores had raised the rent so exhorbitantly that those tenants whose lease had expired, like Victor's Florist, wanted no part of that location. I had also heard a rumor that Sonny's was planning to move once their lease was up too. I hope they find a good location in town and continue to provide the same great product. I also hope the SID doesn't chase them away. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 297 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks, Elaine. All the details you post make so much sense. It seems to me that Sonny's has enough of a following in the area that he could set up shop almost anywhere in the Village and people would find him. Does being close to campus matter at all (was there much of a SHU walk-up business)? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 501 Registered: 2-2006 |
Sonny's does seem to have a loyal following, Stuart0628. However, if it is the store I think it is, the one on SO Ave a little up from Dunkin Donuts, that location may be hard to match. With or without a following, it would be sad not to have something similar. I would park in the lot across from the train station and walk through the walkway between the buildings which I loved to get lunch sandwich bagels frequently. Elaine, could and would you clarify or elaborate on your statement, "for reasons not capable of being expressed" the landlord won't give him a new lease? Is it because the landlord won't say or is unclear in his or her own mind about whether s/he wants to rent it or to have Sonny's in there? Is it because it is clear but not for public announcement; because it is very clear but offensive to repeat, etc.? Don't mean to press you into stating what you don't want to, but it would be good to know why such a popular business in town across the street and very near to the ShopRite crack house will not renew its lease to such a thriving business. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2154 Registered: 5-2005  |
SOrising. I believe Sonnys is the boarded-up store between Neelam and Rite Aid - much further along SO Ave towards Seton Hall. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 502 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks, Soparents. Glad to hear the other one has not been closed. | ||
| Elaine Harris Citizen Username: Elaineharris Post Number: 216 Registered: 12-2004 |
The landlord does not return phone calls and has not offered any reason for not renewing the lease. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1784 Registered: 9-2004  |
Elaine, It's called greed. Forcing the little guy out. I saw this happen to a mom & pop shop (5 & dime store) in Maplewwood Village years ago. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 505 Registered: 2-2006 |
Who is the landlord, anyone? | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3521 Registered: 9-2001  |
Phoenix, it is also called capitalism. The landlord perhaps thinks that s/he can get higher rents, increase the value of the property, and either renovate or simply make more profit. S/he may be right or wrong, and it is certainly not good for my bagel shopping. But s/he has the right to do it as the owner of property. While I love Sonny's bagels and wish they find a new home nearby, I do not understand why the building owner should accept a lower income in order to keep my favorite bagel store in place (or in order for my favorite bagel store to not raise its prices to cover a higher rent). | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5693 Registered: 1-2004 |
Is this another Syaid properity? | ||
| BGS Supporter Username: Bgs Post Number: 1157 Registered: 10-2003 |
This was in NJ Biz on line this morning: Time remembered Millburn Mall takes a pass on age-old Jewish establishments Wednesday, July 19, 2006 BY JOSH LEVINE For the Star-Ledger Once upon a time not too long ago, the streets of Newark were awash in pickled herring, Nova lox, pastrami, half-sour pickles. They brimmed with over-sized loaves of peasant rye bread, bagels and fresh pastries. Well, practically. In the 1930s and for 30 years after, Newark's Weequahic section served as a cultural hub for more than 70,000 Jews who migrated from Eastern Europe and brought their tastes with them, prompting a collection delis and bakeries to meet their food demands. Advertisement Deli from Tabatchnick's, Bragman's and Teitlebaum's; baked goods from Silver's and Watson's; meals at Syd's, the Tavern, and others, each with its own specialty, had through the years been woven into the fabric of Newark's past. By the late 1960s, most of those shops' original customers left the changing city, and the shops went with them. The riots and the inevitable westward push that has defined this country contributed to the migration. But bits of Weequahic's culinary fabric could still be found close enough that, for many old-time Newarkers, a sublime slab of ruggelah, or a side of belly lox, just smoked, has remained a short drive away. So it was with a sense of loss both to history and finely-honed appetites that visitors in mid-July returned to two of these old school businesses for what may be their last time: Tabatchnick's Deli and Sonny Amster's Bakery. If Millburn Mall, with its '60s era architecture, is the mall that time forgot, then it just remembered. Workers are already converting the 1962-era structure into a modern strip mall with a Staples Superstore as the anchor, due to open in September. While several businesses, such as Maple Kosher and the liquor store, will remain, two of its most beloved, Sonny Amster's Bakery and Tabatchnick's Delicatessen, are closed, or will be shortly. "It's simple business, our leases were up and they doubled the rent," said Sonny Amster, 77, who owned and operated Sonny Amster's Bakery for 25 years, after co-owning Watson's Bagels in Newark, then Irvington, for 30 years before that. He bought the bakery in 1982 when it was known as Wigler's. He also explained that business was hurt by nearly three years of bridge construction, recently completed, which kept Millburn customers from the mall. Several customers standing on line didn't know of the imminent closings, and expressed sadness upon hearing of it. South Orange resident Wilma Van Depole said she was a regular customer for three years, since discovering the Russian rye. Before this, she said, she made it herself. Her 3-year-old daughter Vera stood in the center of the old-fashioned bakery, rhapsodically chewing a large cookie glazed with dark chocolate. The son of a Newark bagel maker, Amster bought the Watson's Bagel business on Clinton Place in Weequahic in 1957 and moved it to Chancellor Avenue in Irvington in 1967. The 1947 Newark South Side High graduate continues to operate Elmora Bagels in Elizabeth and Sonny's Bagel's in South Orange. His son also runs a chain of the Bagels-4-U stores, the direct descendants of the legendary Watson Bagels. However, birthday cakes and Jewish-style baked goods appear to be a thing of the past from Sonny's enterprises once this location closes -- except that next to the cash register on the counter is a notebook on which customers are prompted to write their contact information, for "when" Sonny finds a new location. Workers there seem hopeful. The notebook and ever-changing departure dates of this store and others contribute to an air of rumor that is hanging about the Millburn Mall. And apparently fighting the passing of an era by sheer will is 85-year-old Seymour Tabatchnick, proprietor of Tabatchick's deli that was started by his grandfather in Newark in 1895 and closed with little ceremony on July 7. On a recent visit there, Tabatchnick showed off his fish smokeroom, which he calls New Jersey's last. The trim deli owner is known for selling smoked fish, knishes, and smoked meat sandwiches -- and for selling them with grace and style. "That hot dog, we only make for Seymour, it's a tribute to him. Oversized. He came in and convinced me to stop the production line each week and make them special," said Eddie Weinberg, owner of Empire National in Brooklyn. "Now you can't get them." Weinberg said he hopes this customer resurfaces in the restaurant business, since "I know I'll talk to him at least once a week and I don't want to lose that opportunity." "I'm a big admirer of the guy," Weinberg said. "In his mid-80s, juices are still flowing and he's always creating, never stops, you can listen all night to his stories and never say a word." In fact, a recent visitor to the store braced for a grim passing of a man's dreams instead found him hunched over at a corner table, phone pressed hard against one ear as a workman dismantled a vent from the wall. After 10 minutes of what appeared to be like negotiation, he hung up. "Ya know our SloppyJoes -- pastrami and cole slaw? I'm trying to get (an airline) to serve them," he confided, with a sideways grin. Apparently he is trying to sell as many of those sandwiches as possible, since he is also setting up a company specializing in delivering them to offices in Manhattan and New Jersey. He also recently leased a facility in Millington to produce knishes to be sold in Wegman's and Costcos. Staying put is Syd's, an institution on two counts. First, the grill restaurant, there since 1967, is another former Weequahic landmark, one that played host to countless dates and stories recounting them. On a recent visit, a 1957 Weequahic graduate told Syd's current owner, Eric Niederman, that she ate Syd's food as a little girl, but her father would not let her eat at the counter because the conversations going on were 'too raunchy," she said. But Terri Niederman, Eric's mother, said she grew up with Syd's too, and took vehement exception. But just then, her son appeared with a photocopy of some passages from a magazine essay by Philip Roth, where here calls sitting around in Syd's, jawing about, well, sex. The celebrated novelist happened to graduate from Weequahic High School in 1950 -- precisely when the visitor was a little girl. Terri Niederman only smiled then. What could she say? Her son, 27-year-old Eric Niederman, bought Syd's three years ago and vows that the hot dogs, French fries and soups will never change. His reverence for these menu items derives from Syd's second claim to fame -- one of the mandatory stops for the curiously popular Jersey Hot Dog tour, conducted by numerous road food groups who rent buses for this occasion. (Others include Rutt's Hut in Clifton, Texas Wiener in Plainfield, Charlies Famous of Kenilworth, and Dickiee Dees of Newark.) So. Do folks still wander in eager to bend Niederman's ear with stories of Syd's Newark days? He smiled. "If I had a nickel for every time I hear the word 'Weequahic,'" he said. He smiles again when reminded that indeed, he does. For four decades Millburn Mall has retained a swath of culture and nostalgia for a community that has all but slipped away, with the inevitable passage of time and changed demography of what had once been Newark's Jewish center. It is ironic, then, that among those noting the closure of two of Newark's last family-owned landmarks is Larry Reisner, 49, who runs Bragman's Deli, the one that remained in Weequahic since the 1930s. His father, Charlie, bought the business in 1951 and ran it until he died in 1995, said Reisner. "These guys are two of the last of the originals, so it's the passing of an era," Reisner said in a telephone interview. His mother Janice, who lives in Union as does her son, worked alongside her husband running Bragman's and decided to roll with the changes over the years. For example, she said they still offered complete holiday dinners for Jewish customers, including chopped liver, chicken soup with matzoh balls, brisket, kugel, tsimmes. But they also added foods that appealed to the African/American families who replaced many of the Jewish ones, such as greens and mashed potatoes. "Everybody left," she said. "Why did we stay? We were busy. My husband had a fantastic rapport with everybody, so it just worked out that way. And we never changed the quality of the meat, unlike other places, so there are great customers and a good business still." While she matter-of-factly attributed their remaining in Weequahic even after the 1967 Newark riots "because it made good business sense, since the customers kept coming and we owned the building," she seemed proud of Bragman's role in today's Weequahic, too. Everybody loved Charlie (her husband), from the Jews to the Black Muslims," she said. "When he died, the (Congregational) church on Burnett Avenue in Unionheld amemorial service for him." | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 517 Registered: 2-2006 |
What a story, BGS. I want to go to all of these places right now. Why can't Milburn's and Newark's loss be SO's gain? Why can't we recruit them to come here? Have an oral history/children's raconteur hour woven into the mix and we could engage in a special kind of historic preservation, of culture and moral imagination, not only buildings? Who's a fan of Singer, Bruno Schultz, Cynthia Ozick? Why can't we get them to come to SO, all together, to preserve a culture as important to (if not more so) western civilisation as Socrates, Voltaire or Mill? These are the kind of businesses and people who should fill our storefronts, pantries and hearts. What would it take to get them here? |
