| Author | Message | ||
     dc906 Citizen Username: Dc906 Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2002 |
What's the deal with these homes? I finally drove up there and felt like I had just reached Oz- it was that grand. A further look uncovered that these are glorified attached town homes (selling for over $1M ). There is also very little outdoor space. Why would anyone buy these? | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1143 Registered: 5-2004  |
Have you tried to buy a 3BR apartment in NYC, Brooklyn, Hoboken or Jersey City lately? These are brand new, seem to be well appointed, are nice looking, many probably have great views, have an excellent commute to NYC and are close to Flood's Hill as well as SM Resv. - my only complaint would be that they all look identical (and the taxes are $25K for zero land). Heck, I'd kill for the kitchen in MLS# 2269062 - way bigger than my shoebox! Welcome neighbors, and thanks for helping out with our ridiculously high taxes! | ||
| red_alert Citizen Username: Red_alert Post Number: 316 Registered: 3-2005 |
Don't forget Calabrese has the watchtower position overlooking the community at the top of the cliff. | ||
| peteglider Citizen Username: Peteglider Post Number: 2127 Registered: 8-2002 |
Where else are you going to find new construction, 4000 sq foot homes, with attached 2 car garage at anywhere near the price in Essex county? Base price is $900k. But most appear to go loaded with upgrades. (my colleague at work is buying an 800 sq foot co-op, upper west side, for $800k, plus monthly coop fee of $1100!) /p | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5821 Registered: 1-2004  |
Yeah but Peter - Those homes when first listed were sold for almost 1.5 million, weren't they? I feel bad for those who bought last year. Also, I think someone recently told me quite a few were not sold yet. I think you can find brand new two-five family homes with two car garages in Newark for $300,000-$500,000. I'll have to ask my brother where he's building them.  | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4510 Registered: 5-2001  |
Dc, For a thorough history of the site, visit www.preserveso.com. However, the short version is: It was a 30 acre undeveloped former quarry. Trammell Crow planned to build 198 rental units. Through the opposition of Patrick Joyce and the Coalition to Preserve South Orange, the residents defeated the proposal. However, the Board of Trustees was so determined to have the property developed, they subidized Pulte 1.2 million dollars of tax dollars in exchange for building 62 townhouses inside the Quarry and 7 houses along Harding and Underhill. Last we were told, the project is about 50% sold. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1931 Registered: 12-2003  |
There are a lot of people living up there, paying more in taxes than almost anyone else in town. I like to be a NIMBY as much as the next guy, but I happen to consider the development one of the few smart things the town government has done. I know people up there have had a lot of legitimate complaints about the construction process, including some very real environmental issues that the town doesn't seem to be doing a very good job addressing. (There have also been a lot of BS complaints from folks who simply didn't want the development built, and haven't done a very good job of picking their battles. In my humble opinion.) But the fact is it's a large, high-end, high-tax housing development that didn't ruin the older homes in the surrounding neighborhood. I do constantly wonder, however, who bought the one home that appears to have about 6 feet of lawn behind it, and then a giant tower of rock. I'd be living in fear. | ||
| G. Webb Citizen Username: Bam Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2006 |
does anyone have any photos of what the quarry looked like before it was developed? | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 4808 Registered: 5-2001  |
cmonty- perhaps a rock climber? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10320 Registered: 4-1997  |
http://www.nj.com/weblogs/southorange/pics/quarry4.jpg | ||
| red_alert Citizen Username: Red_alert Post Number: 317 Registered: 3-2005 |
Let's make our new neighbors aware of MOL. Let's get our largest tax contributors involved with the forum. | ||
| The Man Citizen Username: Bumboklaat Post Number: 193 Registered: 2-2005  |
Their houses are fugly. | ||
| connied76 Citizen Username: Connied76 Post Number: 57 Registered: 1-2004 |
While very little property and ridiculous taxes of $25-30K, these homes were absolutely spectacular inside. Very well-built with top of the line touches and a really gorgeous layout. There were two models when they first went on the market- not sure if they are left but they were just gorgeous. In this day and age, $1million home is not far off the norm anyway and in that price point they were very well built and laid out with beautiful upgrades and touches. I see lots of people buying small 3 bedroom, very out-dated colonials around here for $500K of so and then gutting them completely so they must be putting another $250k into them. So, you are at $750K for a small 3 bedroom of about 2,000 sq ft where for $250K more, these homes were 4,000+ sq ft and all new and upgraded to the hilt. | ||
| JoRo Citizen Username: Autojoe51 Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2005 |
Certainly, everyone has different tastes and different goals for a home. That said, one of the things that many feel makes South Orange special is precisely the fact that it's full of gorgeous *old* homes (colonials, tudors, arts and crafts, victorians). Homes with meticulously laid floors featuring inlaid details, plaster walls, multi-pane wood frame windows, leaded/stained glass, real wood paneling, wainscoting, mouldings, one-of-a-kind architecture, large porches and decks, long driveways, mature landscaping -- houses with real heft and character. We also are fortunate enough to have a potentially (onceuponatime) inviting downtown. Unfortunately, high-density housing developments and large-scale downtown teardowns risk destroying much of what the town has to offer -- and what is in demand by many home buyers. I hope we pay attention to our past while trying to create the town's future. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1148 Registered: 5-2004 |
Clearly there is demand by many home owners for the spanking new homes Pulte built. From what I see online, they are not lacking nice wood floors or moulding details, and are probably much more energy efficient than most of the old homes in S.Orange. I personally wouldn't want to live in a development with all the homes looking so alike, but aside from that I think they look really nice and certainly could have looked a LOT worse. We, like many other S.Orange owners of good old homes, have spent a small fortune over 9 years on insulation, repair and replacement of many of our lovely cracked plaster walls and ceilings, repair and partial full-replacement of old oak flooring, replacement of storm windows and full replacement of old single pane bay windows, complete replacement of overgrown and ugly "landscaping" including replacement of a 120' stone retaining wall that fell over, not to mention HVAC systems, plumbing and electrical upgrades and updating and bathroom renovations. We still don't have a decent kitchen but really have to breathe financially for a while. Our little 0.16 acre lot isn't exactly a huge amount of land - much of it is very sloped and our kids have practically outgrown our tiny backyard. Oh, and our "one of a kind architecture" is repeated over and over on our street - most of my neighbors' Center Hall Colonials have essentially the same floor plan, and even the same tiling and colorful fixtures used for the bathrooms (or at least they did before they did expensive renovations and additions). I'm not advocating knocking down all the old homes for new homes, but there certainly is room for both in S.Orange - and I sure can appreciate a homeowner's desire for something brand new! The new tax dollars those homes are paying bring much needed support to our tax base - especially since so much commercial tax revenue has come off the tax rolls over the last 10 years. With the exception of part of Sloan Street, most of our downtown is a disgrace - purely WASTED potential. | ||
| JoRo Citizen Username: Autojoe51 Post Number: 131 Registered: 10-2005 |
Good points, PDG -- especially with respect to energy efficiency. (But an awful lot of energy goes into tearing down a building and creating something from scratch.) In addition, I know a lot of people in new homes dealing with settling, walls cracking, air conditioners and heating systems that break after 1-5 years, cheap looking (but expensive) floors, smaller-than-they-should-be mouldings, hollow doors, tinny hardware, etc. Beauty in the eye of the beholder. True there is repetition in the old neighborhoods, but to my eye it's not so apparent as in the newer, more densely built developments. Bottom line, I'd like our elected officials to fall more into the camp of revitalize and rehab than clearcut and knock down. The more desirable South Orange is -- residentially and commercially -- the better off we all are -- life quality and wallets. And to me, desirable is what sets us apart, not looking like a suburb in Anywhere, USA. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12334 Registered: 5-2001 |
First, I think the Committee to Preserve South Orange did one heck of a job and limiting what Pulte built in the quarry. The original proposale was, from memory, for something like 350 standard issue townhouses (think Basking Ridge). This type of development would have put tremendous pressure on South Orange as far as traffic is concerned and the school board to find space for several hundred more children. I think some people felt that the quarry should never be developed, but that was an unrealistic hope. What ended up being built is a relatively few high end townhouses marketed to very affluent empty nesters looking to simplify their lives. Yeah, they are McMansions, but they are in a rather secluded location and while I don't know how quickly they are selling I saw a sales report last week where one of the sold for $1.5mil with a listing price of around $1.1mil. In the end, they certainly haven't destroyed SO and, as mentioned before, added some nice rateables. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1153 Registered: 5-2004 |
JoRo - I think we agree in large part. I also agree with Bob K above. I think we have to thank the concerned and motivated private citizens that helped get the quarry, which was privately owned, developed as nicely as it has been. Regarding revising and revitalizing, I think most Villagers agree that our officials should have done more years ago to maintain and update our historic public buildings! The firehouse, in renovation for at least 5 years, is at least being done. However, you only need to look closely at our Village Hall - inside or out, take your pick - to see what our tax-and-spend government isn't doing regarding revitalizing the properties they are charged with caring for! And the Old Stone House - I think it's too late/too expensive for that landmark to be saved. And the Baird Center - it looks nice from far away, but could really be a source of pride for the town. This mismanagement, coupled with the Village's handling of other private developments in the downtown leaving holes in the ground and empty promises of "coming soon" for years are of far more concern to me than the successful Pulte development! I hope you are motivated enough by your desire for Village officials with a realistic vision of S.Orange to vote in the next BOT elections - and encourage your friends and neighbors to vote as well! We need more thoughtful people like you to take time and take an interest in ensuring a good future for South Orange!  | ||
| JoRo Citizen Username: Autojoe51 Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2005 |
I appreciate your and Bob K's thoughts and perspective. It's a little heartbreaking to see the squandered opportunities around us. But I am still optimistic for the town's future. People need to get more involved, and the government needs to wise up. They have the keys to the Ferrari and they seem not to know it. | ||
| Cali6buff Citizen Username: Cali6buff Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2006 |
The new homes are really impressive. However, the increased traffic zipping down Tillou, half of which has no sidewalks, kind of stinks. | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1935 Registered: 12-2003 |
JoRo: You seem to be perpetuating the myth that there is somehow an outbreak of teardowns in town. There simply isn't. The Tillou Road homes were built on what was, literally, a giant hole. There are a few other brand new homes being built around town, but despite all the hand wringing, it turns out that nobody is buying beautiful old Victorians and knocking them down to build mcmansions. Most of the new construction outside Tillou is either on previously vacant lots, or places where homes were damaged. Can you give me one example of where a house with any market value whatsoever was torn down to make way for a new one? | ||
| JoRo Citizen Username: Autojoe51 Post Number: 133 Registered: 10-2005 |
I'm alluding more to the commercial teardowns -- "Flatiron" Building, Church Street, 165 Valley (vacant but compelling - destiny TBD), Sayid Plaza, etc. These things combined with the supersize of the SOPAC (a good thing in principle in spite of its bulk), and the massive Village Mews and Gaslight Commons lead me to feel that the town wishes to run from its past and headlong into a golden age of the generic. Combine this with the original plans for the Quarry (more units) and the lack of any historic preservation codes and it seems like cause for concern. Just reading the tea leaves, but that's what it looks like to me. I hope I'm wrong. |
