| Author | Message | ||
     Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 389 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hey, check out our new "micro-surfacing" paving job! Look at Tichenor, Montague, Richmond area and tell me what you think. | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster  Post Number: 4530 Registered: 7-2002  |
I've been driving on them every day, they did a pretty piss poor job when I compare it to other micro-surfacing I've seen done. | ||
| SO Ref Citizen Username: So_refugee Post Number: 2103 Registered: 2-2005  |
I see that the winning bid for SO's resurfacing project was awarded to Half-••• Paving. | ||
| Flying_char Citizen Username: Flying_char Post Number: 215 Registered: 8-2005  |
I live on Tichenor and I am VERY dissapointed. It F***ing sucks. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 5973 Registered: 1-2004  |
Same with Meeker, Mountain House, Clark, and the streets in theat area. You know the saying "you get what you pay for?" Wonder which of the BOT members these clowns are related to. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2913 Registered: 4-2002 |
JTA: The low bidding process is the problem. It insures that the job is fairly bid. A municipality must award the contract to the lowest "qualified" bidder. Don't even ask what qualified means, but their are rules in place set forth from the state. If the job is not up to par, the village can take action to make the contractor come back and do the job properly (or withhold payment). For the most part, the process is not political but in my opinion the whole low bidding process is a disaster (and this is a problem in many towns and states). | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3769 Registered: 5-2004  |
Mark, has the town ever made a contractor come back and redo a job or withheld payment? Is there any reason for a contractor to think the town will do anything if they basically piss in the street and call it microsurfacing? I'm not saying the job was THAT bad (since I haven't seen it), but if the town never does anything to enforce the quality of a job, there will never be a reason for any company to bid fairly. It's much cheaper to do a piss poor job if you know that you won't be held responsible for the quality of your work. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 652 Registered: 2-2006 |
Sort of like SOPAC, Trustee Rosner? They threw out the bidders there, went with the "low" starting price of $8 million or so and now we're up to $14-16 million with no cap on future spending? Why can't street paving have double the money orignally budgeted for it and not have a cap? Isn't it a more essential need and service for a town to provide than real estate speculation on a project with no business plan? | ||
| SO1969 Citizen Username: Bklyn1969 Post Number: 364 Registered: 7-2004 |
The quality is very very low. Most people who drive on it think the contractor is coming back to put on the finish coat. Mark - the explanation you provided isn't an excuse. It seems like the the highly paid Village Administrator and others needs to do a better job of filtering to get the right "qualified" firms bidding. Frankly, the quantity of streets re-paved makes me think this is an election-year-coming ploy, but the quality is so low, this will backfire. | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 392 Registered: 2-2005 |
Maybe the top coat was used to fabricate a sculpture? | ||
| Mergele Citizen Username: Mergele Post Number: 433 Registered: 7-2003  |
It really is terrible. There's a mini-revolt of sorts going on on the VCNA mailing list... Lots of very pointed messages being left with Sal at Village Hall. Not that I have much in the way of expectations, but something really ought to be done - it looks horrible. | ||
| campbell29 Citizen Username: Campbell29 Post Number: 540 Registered: 4-2002 |
ok - I will now stop wondering when they will come back to finish.... turns out the job has been done...Kind of leads one to think - the old pavement was crappy, but that was ok because it was old. Now we have NEW crappy pavement, what a wonderful way to spend money. on a better note, my water has been tasting less rancid lately. For about a week now there hasn't been anything floating on the bottom of the water glasses. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 748 Registered: 6-2005 |
Maybe the problem is that the job is not spec-ed by people knowledgeable in paving, and therefore anyone who submits a bid seems qualified. Its like the water contract not having a quality spec above and beyond the EPA health hazard requirements. It looks to me that this is another process problem with how city hall does business. If they went out and sought people knowledgeable in paving and had them provide input into the prequest for proposal, maybe we'd be in better shape. Another example is how the paving was done in Newstead. Did the proposal say that tearing up the streets and re-paving should be done in a two-day period. I doubt it. it was weeks between. I just don't think our politicians know how to run the village using best business practices and this is just another example. | ||
| Bailey Citizen Username: Baileymac Post Number: 418 Registered: 3-2005 |
This also applies to Prospect Place and Roland Ave. from Prospect Street to Valley Street. What an awful job. Was this really an outside contractor, and not village employees? If it's an outside contractor, they shouldn't be paid until it's fixed. | ||
| John Caffrey Citizen Username: Jerseyjack Post Number: 487 Registered: 11-2005 |
The problem isn't with the low bidder regulations. It is that the bid specifications were set to allow for work of poor quality at a lower price | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 658 Registered: 2-2006 |
Yes, J. Caffrey, jayjay's point also. If you don't have people who know what is really needed, how can the town choose among bidders? This is giving them the benefit of the doubt. An alternative explanation is that they did know what was needed and chose bad contractors anyay. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10534 Registered: 4-1997  |
The thread title says "Paving," but's microsurfacing that is being done. | ||
| bets Supporter Username: Bets Post Number: 23882 Registered: 6-2001  |
Rosner: That may be the most ironic statement ever in South Orange politics. | ||
| metfan33 Citizen Username: Metfan33 Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2006 |
Buy cheap buy twice | ||
| Flying_char Citizen Username: Flying_char Post Number: 219 Registered: 8-2005 |
wow so this is really the finished thing. SAD... I had a party last night and people, who parked in the street was saying : cool you are getting new pavement, and I sincerely thought they would be back, well I guess not. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 907 Registered: 1-2006 |
Tell Calabrese, Taylor and Rosen, our regal powers, at the next board meeting, which, I believe, will be held on 9/11. jd | ||
| Crazy_quilter Citizen Username: Crazy_quilter Post Number: 393 Registered: 2-2005 |
what is micro-surfacing? Is this what it is supposed to look like? it is messy along the edges and uneven along the curbs. It is very rough. Is this what the village wanted when they paid for this work? | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2707 Registered: 5-2005  |
WHO selects the contractor? Is it purely based on finances, or does someone with knowledge of what is actually involved look at the companies bidding and their background, or is none of that important and it all comes down to the numbers? I have just looked at some of the microsurfacing this morning and if I were a home owner paying someone to do that for my own property I would be spitting fire. Substandard if not questionable workmanship to say the least. | ||
| Mary Lago Citizen Username: Marylago Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 |
Frankly, it's a fantastic job compared to what they did a couple of years ago when all the Village contracted for was a spray of asphalt with gravel over it. I had just had my house painted and it looked like the paint job was about 20 years old. All of the houses on my street either needed to be painted or power washed. We all had dust and muck outside, and inside, our houses for months! The dust made us sick and forget about the cars; you needed to wash them every week. My husband wanted me to sue. I will agree that the job does not look very professional. I might add that even though I understand that a governing body must accept the lowest bid, it does not mean it has to accept sub-par performance. The bidding process is to elicit bids of equal quality and a governing body can choose a higher bid if the bid submitted by the lowest bidder is not to specifications. It begs the question of what exactly SO asked from its bidders. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4588 Registered: 5-2001  |
Don't forget: Street Sidewalk and Roadway Improvement $650,000 A discussion ensued about starting to pay down the $250,000 in debt for the Arts Center from CDBG funds Accordingly $250,000 is available in the capital budget to pay for the Tony Smith sculpture and the other 400000 is for street sidewalk and roadway improvements. Trustee Rosner thought that money for the Tony Smith sculpture was to be raised through donations. http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2004/02-18-04BW.pdf So, when you budget $650,000 for streets, sidewalks AND roadways, but then divert $250,000 of that to a sculpture, you can't expect the highest quality, can you? | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 663 Registered: 2-2006 |
Welcome to MOL, Mary Lago. Sorry to hear about your house the last time. MHD and others are right. The whole process is inept, with homeowners still being heavily taxed for bad work. | ||
| MasselMom Citizen Username: Teacher66 Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2006 |
Talk about bad job "micropaving" come and see Massel Terrace. There are already groves in the road where you can see the old black top. The road in not even close to even. It is so so bad . When the workers where ready to remove the blockades on the road I went out an questioned them saying there is no way that this road is finished. They said and I quote "the road is not suppose to be even" . Our road was better before they "micropaved" it!! I do understand how they could waste the taxpayers money on this. As Trustee Rosner stated Quote: If the job is not up to par, the village can take action to make the contractor come back and do the job properly (or withhold payment). Well I and number of other people on my street would like them to come back and fix it. Please let me know when that will happening!! | ||
| RBC Citizen Username: Rbcole123 Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2005 |
My road (Thornden) is not due to be repaved, but it is already in bad shape from the last paving job (a few years ago I'm told). People who live on the streets with new shoddy paving should call the town administrator (?)immediately in an effort to get new work to stop until this issue is resolved. The recent repaving should then be fixed. I work for a gov't agency which does procurements all the time. We would not take the low or near lowest bidder unless we were satisfied they could do a high quality job, and there is a meticulous process to check quality both before they are selected and during the job. The town will end up paying more in the long run and townspeople will be even more angry than they are now. | ||
| Soparents Supporter Username: Soparents Post Number: 2734 Registered: 5-2005 |
Welcome MasselMom, The next BOT meeting is on Sept 11th. I am sure there will be other people there too questioning the quality of the micropaving, it would be good if you and your neighbours came along (8pm village hall) and voiced your concerns, as it certainly seems to be an issue on various streets in town. | ||
| MasselMom Citizen Username: Teacher66 Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2006 |
Thank for the welcome. I am at least my husband if not more neighbours will try to attend the meeting and voice our concerns. | ||
| Steve Hickson Citizen Username: Shickson Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2006  |
I'm no micro-resurfacing or micro-repaving or whatever they call it expert but Meeker Street does look ripe for me to break out my dusty old rollerblades again. Meeker is looking pretty smooth. So if you see a big dorky guy with glasses careening down Meeker Street be sure to give me a holla---isn't that what our tax dollars are for? Steve Hickson's personal enjoyment and fulfillment? | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1606 Registered: 2-2006  |
Hey Steve Hickson... Let me know and I'll come by and take some pics...  | ||
| Steve Hickson Citizen Username: Shickson Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2006 |
Bajou, I will allow a limited number of pics to be taken with nominal fees for session time and talent re-use. Pics may also be posted on MOL for a period of one year. Let me check my calendar for available dates and get back to you. I'm so smitten with this micro-resurfacing thing I'm thinking of having my driveway done over---also, I think asphalt micro-resurfacing might look kind of cool in my living room as a compliment to my Chia Pet collection---the possibilities are really endless. | ||
| MasselMom Citizen Username: Teacher66 Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2006 |
My neighbour whose sons are professional pavers said that micro-resurfacing is like if you needed to fix a wall by putting drywall up. But instead of fixing it the right way with drywall you fix it by mixing some sand into paint. Her son said it may get an extra year or two out of road but it is not a great fix. I love how our tax dollars are going to get an extra year or two out of a road. I personally rather have the town save up the money and do the job right the first time then some sub - par job, | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3778 Registered: 5-2004 |
The town does paving on a set schedule. Micropaving is done to extend the amount of time between pavings. While this particular job (or set of jobs) seems worse than usual, in the past micropaving has not been such a bad experience for residents. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 677 Registered: 2-2006 |
I also would rather have them skip the micropaving and put town money into real repaving. How much do they spend, town-wide for micro-paving? Anyone know? Its ridiculous they divert money from road expenses not only for statues, but because they are spending it on statues, they use the fact that they then don't have enough left over to throw more away on poor micro-paving. Whose idea was this anyway? The squandering of public monies on poor expenditures will probably accelerate between now and municipal elections next spring. | ||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 678 Registered: 2-2006 |
Welcome to MOL MasselMom and metfan33. Thank you for taking an interest in this and for attending the next BOT meeting if you are able. Thank you also, RBC for commenting, given how rarely you have since registering to do so. | ||
| Mary Lago Citizen Username: Marylago Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2006 |
MHD, "So, when you budget $650,000 for streets, sidewalks AND roadways, but then divert $250,000 of that to a sculpture, you can't expect the highest quality, can you?" How can the sculpture be considered a "Street Sidewalk and Roadway Improvement"? I have lived in this town for many years and I just don't get it. I know that bringing the sculpture up is beating a dead horse--no animal cruelty here--but what is going on? Montana is looking good but way too cold in the winter. Delaware is not a very pretty little state but they sure protect their citizens. SORising, thanks for the welcome. ML | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 4591 Registered: 5-2001 |
MaryLago, Welcome to MOL. Your question is a very good one & one that nobody in our government has been able to provide a reasonable answer to. You can't make this stuff up, but there it is during the official meeting minutes: http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2004/02-18-04BW.pdf Now that the sculpture is being moved to the middle of a park, it becomes even more ridiculous to use funds earmarked for "street sidewalk and roadway improvements" for the expenditure. | ||
| Shanabana Citizen Username: Shanabana Post Number: 971 Registered: 10-2005  |
Oy! We get microsurfaced tomorrow am. I was looking forward to it. Now  not! I know a great way to see whether a paver (surfacer, whatever) is qualified: drive down a street they have done. How hard could that have been?!? There still must be a modicum of effort put into quality control when awarding contracts, low-bid policy or no. |
