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SOSully
Citizen
Username: Sullymw

Post Number: 1329
Registered: 5-2001


Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 8:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I noticed green and blue paint marking sewers, water lines etc on my street. Does that mean that we are on the schedule for this? Does anyone at town hall have the schedule? Our curbs are crumbling. Will they fix the curbs when they do the paving or micro-surfacing?
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wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb

Post Number: 525
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes SOSully, that means it's coming up for you.

This is a resurfacing job, not repaving or rebuilding the street. I have not seen any curbs fixed as part of this effort and don't believe it's part of the job.


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MasselMom
Citizen
Username: Teacher66

Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MHD,
Thank you so much for including the highlights of that meeting in this thred. I am going to single out a part of it so that everyone can see. I can't believe that they went ahead with this when it is clearly stated in the minutes that they did not like the work that this company had done! You have to love this town!

Quote from minutes:

Micro surfacing Program 0(what Village Administrator wanted) 100,000 (what Trustees voted on spending)


The Village Administrator recommended not spending any money on this project this year since
all of the money was not spent last year due to the poor quality of the work that was done and due
to the fact that the contractor did not complete the work that was scheduled for last year. Accordingly the Village is a year behind with the streets that were supposed to be completed last
year.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2914
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just some points to help some understand how the decision was made.
First off the village engineer has stated that microsurfacing adds about 7 - 8 years to the life of a road before it needs to be repaved. Micorsurfacing is similar to driveway sealing only with a coarser mix that is applied with special equipment. The cost of repaving is significantly higher (about ten times greater).
As of now, there are only two contractors in the state that do microsurfacing. If you eliminate one of them due to workmanship then there would only be one (and I can only imagine how much his bids would increase).
We are not going to pay any contractor until the job meets the specs and is approved by the engineer. The current contractor has not been paid yet and the village engineer is aware of the issues and notified the contractor what he needs to do at this time.
Every year we budget about $100,000 for microsurfacing and $400,000 for repaving of roads. The engineer each years decides based on the condition of the street which ones need to be done first. He felt it was better to continue to try with the microsurfacing to help prolong the life of as many street as possible.
The BOT was advised that we should continue with the microsurfacing as we have done in the past. We were also told that the contractor who won the bid did come back to redo and finish the work (and the work was satisfacotry).



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dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm

Post Number: 309
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 1:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've driven on the micropaving and let me tell you, it is a lot easier on your car, your front lawn, and your porch than the alternative of oil and stone which is what was done several years ago. That process was very messy resulting in rock dust all over the place. The oil and stone ultimately had to be redone because it generated so many complaints.
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J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn

Post Number: 2686
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Folks, check to see that your manhole covers and water access pipes have not been microsurfaced over. Ours on Kenneth Terrace were, and I have no idea anymore where exactly they are. I presume someone in the Engineering department has a location map.

I spoke with John Gross yesterday evening about the ridiculousness of the micro job and he assured me that Village personnel will be walking the affected streets and assessing the quality of the work. If problems are not fixed, Mr. Gross assured me, the contractor will not be paid.

I would pass on his suggestion that anyone with complaints about how this job was done email specifics to Gross (jgross@southorange.org) and/or Sal Renda, so that nothing will be overlooked when the town does its inspection.

I would also suggest that the Village trustees be copied on all complaints about this. (Contact info is at the Village website, www.southorange.org.) If payment must be witheld, there should be no question in any trustee's mind as to why.
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wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb

Post Number: 527
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oil and stone... shudder... yeah remember that?
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MasselMom
Citizen
Username: Teacher66

Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 3:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am the first to agree that the Oil and stone mixture was a disaster! I will agree that this is better then that but I just question if we should not save up to do the job right by repaying the streets instead of this micropaying that does not seem to be going so well.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2915
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 3:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MasselMom: Actually, for the most part, the microsurfacing has been working. The process has proven to prolong the life of a road by many years. It is a matter of trying to holding costs down. There is no question sometimes a contractor is sloppy or does not do the job properly. That is why we force them to come back.

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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk

Post Number: 12460
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 3:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting. Our street in Maplewood was microsurfaced twice during the eighteen years we lived there. The first week or two is a mess because all the stone hasn't imbedded into the tar and there is a lot of dust. After that it was fine. I know that they did patches before doing the microsurfacing.

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Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave


Post Number: 10567
Registered: 4-1997


Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 4:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This type isn't the loose gravel type. It's a big improvement over that. With that said, I think there may be quality issues because some think their streets are fine and others see big problems.
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Crazy_quilter
Citizen
Username: Crazy_quilter

Post Number: 397
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 4:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe if the notice that the streets would be done would include some statement like "slubs and slurs are part of the beauty of this fabric" then our expectations wouldn't be so high and we would be happy.
i agree the gravel was a mess.
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MasselMom
Citizen
Username: Teacher66

Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 6:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mrosner:

If you get them to come back and fix the problem then I have no problem with it. This time around the contractor did a horrible job and should not be paid until he fixes the problems.

I am no expert in paving and if it does add the life of the street I am all for it. But I think we might want to find a contractor who does a good job, because our street was in much better shape before the micropaving them after it.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising

Post Number: 689
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 7:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Masselmom, if I understand your earlier post, and the Village Administrator was against micro-paving and the BOT voted for it anyway, given what we've seen, the Village Administrator seems to be correct. If the V. engineer recommended micopaving because the BOT did not budget enough for repaving, he can hardly be faulted for that.

The fault seems to rest, again, in the fact that not all monies for road repair was used for road repair. Specifically, we know the BOT was willing to divert $250,000 from road repair for Tau. If you added that to the cost of micropaving, how many more repavings could have occurred? How much other money over and above this quarter million was diverted for other purposes and how many additional repavings did we lose because of it?
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MasselMom
Citizen
Username: Teacher66

Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 8:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good questions.
I do not know the answers. Maybe Mark could answer them.
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Shanabana
Citizen
Username: Shanabana

Post Number: 973
Registered: 10-2005


Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My block of Ridgewood looks ok to me. Not perfect--just ok. It's certainly not do-over material.
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Claflin Kennerly
Citizen
Username: 2cents

Post Number: 39
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live on Tichenor and I, like some other posters, originally thought that the contractors were coming back the next day to finish the job. My son even asked to write his name while it was wet. Of course I said no, but I also said, "It will be covered up when they come back to put the final coat on tomorrow, anyway." I guess my expectations were way too high.

Shanabana, I haven't been on Ridgewood lately to compare, but I am not satisfied with the quality of the work on Tichenor.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2916
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Masselmom: As usual, SOrising makes false statements. First off, the VA did not advise the BOT to postpone the microsurfacing of the roads during the budget meetings when the decision is made. Second off, we have budgeted almost the exact same amount for repaving and mircorsurfacing every year going back about 10 years (maybe longer). There was a plan put forth by the village engineer and the BOT has stuck to it because it has been working.
At no point did the Village enginer request we budget more money for repaving. I would also point out that the village administrator was suggesting we postpone the microsurfacing for one year to save money this year. We would have spent the extra money next year so the bottom line was no different to the taxpayer.
The extra money bonded for the sculpture was in addition to the normal paving budget (I will add, as indicated in the minutes from the budget meeting, I was the only one to question using public money for the sculpture when it was promised we would be using grants and private funds and indicated my displeasure).

I did see the contractor out this morning working on the streets so I will be curious to hear if he is fixing up any streets that might not have been done correctly.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising

Post Number: 702
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trustee Rosner, you need to learn how to read. It might help in your work as trustee.

Obviously, there is not enough money for street repaving and spending it on micropaving is questionable. But then again, this would not be the first time citizens disagree with your judgement or actions.
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MasselMom
Citizen
Username: Teacher66

Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mrosner:
Thanks for getting back to us with those answers. I have to say that it is nice that at Trustee is so helpful in answering peoples questions.

Thanks!
P.S. the contractor has not been out on our street.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2917
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MasselMom: Thanks. I will check to see when the contractor plans to make to your street. He was on first street this morning.

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MasselMom
Citizen
Username: Teacher66

Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you so much for your help!
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Tuxedo
Citizen
Username: Tuxedo

Post Number: 102
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 2:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The material is so cheap that when water gets on the street surface, it turns white. Really ugly!
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MasselMom
Citizen
Username: Teacher66

Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 2:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah and the water makes groves in the road. Our street is covered in white groves from the water. If you look closely at it I think that the white it actually the old roadway surface. I think the water ate right through the new stuff. I am not sure about that but it sure looks like it on my street.
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connied76
Citizen
Username: Connied76

Post Number: 86
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 7:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

S Ridgewood done on Tues (with no notice by the way). It is terrible. Road looks terrible with seems and grooves everywhere. It drives bad too- bumpy.
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Tuxedo
Citizen
Username: Tuxedo

Post Number: 105
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 8:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another important question to ask Public Works or Engineering: When are are the streets going to be repainted, as in cross walk signs, painted yellow curbs on the corners, etc. Anyone have intelligence on this? This job is so half ***ed.

Maybe we have to wait and get a bid on this too. Probably do this next spring.
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Soparents
Supporter
Username: Soparents

Post Number: 2773
Registered: 5-2005


Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 9:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MRosner,

There are obviously concerns about the quality of the micropaving. Would it be possible to stop the contractor from doing any further streets until they have gone back to those that have been done badly and do the work correctly this time?

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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2918
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 9:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SOparents: I will ask the village engineer.

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Shanabana
Citizen
Username: Shanabana

Post Number: 984
Registered: 10-2005


Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 9:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

connied 76 - you're joking, right? The drive is MUCH better on S Ridgewood. The ridges are not very discernable at all. There are no "white" parts and the surface seems pretty thick. It looks totally acceptable in most places. From the tone of posts here I was expecting something MUCH worse than what we got.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2919
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think there needs to be an understanding of the difference between the microsurfacing and a complete repaving. The microsurfacing is not a repaving. It is done to extend the life of a road (and despite what one person posted, it has proven to be effective).
If there were dips or ripples prior to the micorsurfacing, they will still be there afterwards. The contractor will keep working and will not be paid till the total job is finished (and approved by the village engineer).
SOparents: From what I have been told, most of the work has been done correctly. It would seem the expectation of microsurfacing is part of the problem.
Anyone who has concerns or specific problems should contact the village engineer's office in village hall.
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Crazy_quilter
Citizen
Username: Crazy_quilter

Post Number: 400
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i don't think the ridges and ripples were there before. i think our street (Tichenor) looked better before the micro-surfacing.

I also guess that if this extends the life of the road 7-8 years that we aren't getting those cute little cobblestone curbs for 7-8 years :-(
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising

Post Number: 706
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 2:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much was budgetted and spent this year for repaving and how much was budgetted and spent this year for microsurfacing? It is obvious there is not enough spent on repaving because money that could be spent for repaving is being spent on microsurfacing and other things that have nothing to do with roads. We only know about one of them, Tau, but there may be others. What are the actual budget and expense figures for repaving and microsurfacing?

Has the Citizens' Advisory Committee commented on any of these issues?

The most important questions here impugn the BOT and not the village engineer, whose hands are tied by the BOT.
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Cali6buff
Citizen
Username: Cali6buff

Post Number: 68
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 4:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's obvious? Really? Do you have any idea how much it costs to repave vs microsurface a road? How long the average paved road lasts? What's the town’s road repaving/microsurfacing schedule?

I'm going to guess - no.

I find that when people use words like "obvious" and "clearly" they are attempting to state opinion as fact, and generally, their opinion hasn't a leg to stand on.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2920
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 4:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cali6buff : I posted earlier pretty much what SOrising was asking (my post 2914 at 11:43 on 08/22 and my post 2916 on 8/23 at 9:40am). How long a repaving lasts depends on the amount of traffic, the weather etc. but in general it should last on a side street from 15 - 20 years (especially if the microsurfacing is done in a timely manner). On busier streets, especially ones with buses and trucks, the repaving must be done more frequently.
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Cali6buff
Citizen
Username: Cali6buff

Post Number: 69
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 4:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw that. But I chose to swallow a "learn to read" comment.

Keep up the great work.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner

Post Number: 2921
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 4:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks,
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Tuxedo
Citizen
Username: Tuxedo

Post Number: 108
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 8:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who decides what roads are to be repaved vs. surfaced? Is it the S.O. engineer? Is it a subjective or objective decision?

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SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee

Post Number: 2129
Registered: 2-2005


Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 8:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The microsurfacing on Riggs Place looks like crap [full of ridges] and should definitely be re-done.
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dgm
Citizen
Username: Dgm

Post Number: 310
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 9:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Go ahead and impugn the village engineer.
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SOrising
Citizen
Username: Sorising

Post Number: 712
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The BOT allocates money for road resurfacing in the budget. We know that it voted to spend $250,000, minimum, with no caps, on a sculpture from monies borrowed for road repairs. It now appears it will spend $170,000 illegally, minimum, but also with no limit, from the same monies, on the same sculpture. How many repavings will $250,000+ buy, added to the budget for microsurfacing? Numerous.

If it isn't obvious to anyone that money diverted from road repair for other purposes creates a deficit in money available for resurfacing, a deficit that inconveniences homeowners who have to put up with poor road work, not once but more than once when the poor first effort is "corrected" perhaps several times, then they are captive to alliances that blind them to the truth or make them deny it.

But admittedly, what is obvious to most would never be acknowledged by many on the BOT and their various toadies.

Great work from the BOT is what residents deserve, not lies and denials, posturing as it.

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