| Author | Message | |||
     SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 763 Registered: 2-2006 |
A contingent in Millburn succeeded in covertly introducing a government-sponsored, cruel and unnecessary slaughter of deer. I hope the same does not occur in South Orange. Here is information about it, including about several humane ways to manage deer in suburbia and a description of a deer birth-control agent that will be available in 2007: http://www.netandboltcruelty.net/ | |||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1870 Registered: 7-2005  |
Truthfully...I really don't care. I'd rather it be dead by a bolt gun to the head or eye or whatever than through the windshield of my car...also killing or seriously injuring me and/or my passengers. | |||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1410 Registered: 5-2003 |
Deer ruin our gardens. They have caused enormous damage to our forests and parks by eating all of the tender undergrowth. They harbor Lyme ticks and spread Lyme disease. They cause serious accidents by running into the roads and getting hit by cars. They have few natural predators in suburbia and have bred uncontrollably. Frankly, I would shoot them myself, if it were allowed. | |||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3833 Registered: 5-2001  |
Is there any indication anywhere that South Orange is even vaguely considering a hunt? Is there any part of the reservation that is in South Orange or is SORising assuming that the marksmen will wander around in Newstead and up and down Wyoming Ave in a residential area? Red Herring. | |||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 765 Registered: 2-2006 |
LL, read the site. You are the only one raising a red herring about marksmen. | |||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3834 Registered: 5-2001 |
Should of read the site. Ur right. When did South Orange discuss instituting this? | |||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 411 Registered: 2-2005 |
South Orange doesn't need a deer hunt...We have no wooded land where deer live. They all come out of the reservation which is county land, and technically in Maplewood, West Orange, Millburn. If there is a deer hunt it would be the County or other towns...I can't imagine a deer hunt in South Orange, they would be in backyards? Whats wrong with the deer hunt...You ever hit one of those lil docile creatures at 55 mph...You wont be a fan of deer after that. | |||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2367 Registered: 10-2002  |
Old and Gray - they're not proposing a deer hunt. Refer to Sorising's link for details. | |||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3836 Registered: 5-2001 |
Are they going to net and bolt the deer in our backyards in South Orange? Wouldn't the homeowner have to give permission for the shooter to go onto their property? I haven't heard or read anything about this at all. When are the trustees going to announce it? | |||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12574 Registered: 5-2001 |
There is a finite number of deer that can live in any ecosystem without doing severe damage to the enviornment and maintaining a healthy herd. I have no problem with culling the animals. However, the net and bolt method seems rather cruel and that is probably an understatement. I would much prefer the way Millburn did this before, using riflemen. If done correctly, this isn't at all dangerous for neighbors. | |||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese  Post Number: 2267 Registered: 7-2004  |
I support the death of deer by swords. | |||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 9383 Registered: 5-2001  |
I'm for humane control and that is not humane control. As for bothersome deer: we build the most deer-friendly ecosystems possible and then bitch when they take us up on it. Deer thrive on edges of forest/wood backing onto open spaces -aka- suburbia. Then we plant food that they love. They are happy and healthy and proceed to breed. Then there are too many of them and they are killed running across roads (not their faults), etc. I remember when herds of deer were jumping off Goat Island into the Niagara River near Niagara Falls long ago because they were so overpopulated. Deer control means that we have to put better thought into what and how we build. We may not be able to control much, but we can control what we plant. | |||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2937 Registered: 4-2002 |
"South Orange doesn't need a deer hunt...We have no wooded land where deer live. They all come out of the reservation which is county land, and technically in Maplewood, West Orange, Millburn." Above was posted by old and grey. He is correct and I would add that the county owns the property but sections are annexec to various towns. Several years ago the county ran some meetings to try and come up with a concensus. Trap and transfer seemed to be the preferred method only the county did not want to pay one cent. S. Orange had agreed to pay our share based on population but we did expect the county to pick up some of the cost (I personally felt they should pay 50%). At this point in time, the county has continued to state they will not spend money on thinning the herd no matter what method is decided upon. Furthermore, they will no longer pick up deer from county roads and have left that up to each municipality. | |||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 1876 Registered: 7-2005 |
Greentree....um...the house I live in in S.O. was built in the mid 30s...should we be forced to tear it down...actually and most of the block for that matter to create a deer friendly environment? Heck no. I say bag 'em and tag 'em. "humane" treatment is a funny thing...because we're more worried about deer getting humane treatment then we are other people. | |||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10708 Registered: 4-1997  |
They only deal with mosquitos. | |||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 9385 Registered: 5-2001 |
Glock - that is the problem. All these deer did not manifest themselves overnight. It is a problem decades in the making. And getting much worse. Perhaps instead of too-cool-for-school barbs, we can think about planned communities, individual responsibility and what changes we can make now and in the future to turn it around. Culling the herds won't help if we keep building things that attract deer and allow them to thrive. It is, at best, a temporary solution. BTW - tearing down the neighborhood would make it deer-unfriendly. It is short-sighted to think that vehicular deer control is the answer. Whether you feel badly or not when you see a deer by the side of the road, or, worse, have a run-in and the animal is suffering, is not the point. The problem is not solved either way. Oh, and I would like to think that anyone who has stood there with a deer shaking and foaming in pain, wishing fervently for the police to hurry up and get there so that they could shoot it and put it out of its misery would not be so cavalier about saying "they don't care." Like the rest of the environmental problems we have, this wasn't created overnight and won't be solved overnight. But it will get worse. So, be snarky and blase if that's the persona of the day and you are comfortable with it. If things go the way they should, I'll preceed you in death by about 20 years. And I'll never have kids. So, hey, it won't really be my problem or a problem for my children. I do have one question, tho: where is it written that caring about animals and people are mutually exclusive? | |||
| srg227 Citizen Username: Srg227 Post Number: 64 Registered: 6-2004 |
There is plenty of room on this green earth for god's creatures...right next to the mashed potatoes. | |||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 4175 Registered: 5-2001  |
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| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1740 Registered: 2-2006  |
There is a much better way and that is birth control. Culling deer is not successful in the long run as they tend to cull the males. In reality you have to cull mostly female to make a dent as one stag can impregnate 200 females in a season whereas 200 stags can only produce as many offspring as breeding age females are available. This means that they will have to be shooting mothers with fawns at this stage and you will end up with a bunch of young deer that have not had enough time to learn to use the deer bridges we so happily built. Once you cull you encourage twin birth breeding in the coming years as food supply will be ample again and in a couple of years you are back at the same number. Deer can be shot with birth control dart that last five years and that way you really reduce the population in the long run as most of the females will likely be too old to breed after that. I am always amazed how people think that they have more right to the land than the animals we live with. Overpopulation is definately a problem but the species that breeches the sustainable level most drastically is human. Why do you think we are dealing with terrorism ... resources are getting low. | |||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 769 Registered: 2-2006 |
Bajou, the website I originally referenced says birth control would be available in 2007. (It also confirmed your comments about the resurgence in population after culling.) Do you know that it is available now for deer? Seems a no brainer, if so. | |||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 2268 Registered: 7-2004 |
"There is plenty of room on this green earth for god's creatures...right next to the mashed potatoes." That is classic. | |||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1744 Registered: 2-2006 |
It is in Europe. I would have to do some research about the availability in the US. The fact that Millburn is looking to go with the net and bolt method is incredible to me. It is outlawed in most places. I can guarantee you this it will only happen once cause all the happy families that want to plant their little flowers to make their precious little (big) homes pretty will get an ear full. Deer scream when trapped and I doubt that most people around here have ever heard the sound that comes out of those very quiet, docile, and non aggressive animals. I have heard what it sounds like when animals fight for their life. I heard it in New Orleans and at the animal hospital where I worked. I used to hate visiting my uncles home in Austria. He was the freight train station master in Salzburg and his home was right by the unloading dock of the freight trainstation. I wittnessed how hundreds of donkeys where unloaded after being shipped from the east block. Most could no longer walk as their legs where broken and they were drenched in blood from biting each other in the panic during the ride. The screams were deafning and I will never forget them. But you don't need to go to Austria for that. Go to a slaughterhouse and you can hear the screams a mile away. Culling in the reservation is convenient cause you can't hear them but in your backyard is a different story. I wonder how they think they can keep this noise from all the kids that will hear pretty little deer (fawns alike) scream for the life just to have a six inch metal bolt rammed into their brain. But those are the lucky ones...most of them will have moved in the last second and the bolt will be misplaced and not deadly. Then they have to reload the gun which takes a while. Good luck Millburn moms and dads explaining that and enjoy your pansies. | |||
| Charlton Citizen Username: Charlton Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2006 |
Who killed Bambi? | |||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 1273 Registered: 5-2004  |
Unfortunately, I saw Bambi dying a terrible death at about 3:30 this afternoon at the very busy intersection of Wyoming and S. Orange Ave. Poor Bambi was apparently hit by a car, but not badly enough to die quickly and was clearly suffering horribly!  There are just too many deer in the Res. b/c there are no natural predators. How is it that people don't get that it's not about the flowers, but the cars which are a fact of everyone's lives. | |||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 783 Registered: 2-2006 |
Here's hoping the birth control option will be used. Does anyone know who in the county would know about it/institute it? | |||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 1787 Registered: 2-2006 |
PDG you are totally right. There are too many deer in the woods. That's because we annihilated all the natural predators ages ago and used up all the land so they cannot spread out. Deer don't cross streets cause they want to mess with your Toyota or have a death wish, the are forced to cross streets. I am all for deer management as it reduces decease and starvation but is it seriously necessary to have to resort to shooting a six inch metal rod into a scull of an animal who will most likely not hold still when it is already frantically trying to get out of a net. For gods sake it is the year 2006. I would prefer a good sharp shooter shooting females then this massacre. | |||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1898 Registered: 3-2003 |
Thank you for your realistic and objective post. Although I have lost thousands of dollars worth of landscaping, my biggest concern is the possibility of one of my family being struck by a deer. Without fail, particualrly when it's a little foggy or at night, we will remind each other to be careful of the deer. I have to tell friends who are visiting to be careful of the deer. This is the real problem, and we're talking about a safety issue. Probably a controlled hunt in connection with a sterization program is the best route. | |||
| LilLB Citizen Username: Lillb Post Number: 2396 Registered: 10-2002 |
Soda!!!!!!!!!!!!! How dare you do that to my picture. Poor little deer....  | |||
| Soda Supporter Username: Soda Post Number: 4188 Registered: 5-2001 |
Is this better?
-s. | |||
| The Man Citizen Username: Bumboklaat Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2005  |
When I opened this thread I thought that someone actually witnessed SODA molesting a collie. My mistake that it was about deer. | |||
| Daniel I. Goldberg Citizen Username: Dig Post Number: 169 Registered: 8-2004 |
Mark - are you serious that the County now refuses to pick up dead deer on their property. I say that the Village should pick up the next dead deer found on S. Orange Avenue (running through the Reservation) and make a personal delivery to DeVicenzo. Maybe then he will understand the problem. It is outrageous to me that this problem has been foisted upon the municipalities, without any effort by the County to build a consensus on how to deal with the issue. | |||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 804 Registered: 2-2006 |
More discussion in Millburn section. Deer contraceptive available now and best choice, all things considered. | |||
| Kingsbury Union Citizen Username: Kingsbury Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2006 |
But what if the deer are Catholic??? | |||
| SOrising Citizen Username: Sorising Post Number: 809 Registered: 2-2006 |
Millburn just voted to ask the State to kill deer to reduce their population. They seem to be unaware that the contraceptive is available now and that killing deer results in increases to the populations. They also seem to have ignored a reported fact that lyme disease increases in humans and domestic animal populations when deer population decreases. Seems like they will get just what they don't want: increases in deer and lyme disease closer to their homes. Very strange. |
