SOPAC Budget

Log Out | Lost Password? | Topics | Search | Who's Online Contact | Register | My Profile | SO home | MOL home

Thread Originator Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   Neen Citizen Username: Neen Post Number: 99 Registered: 1-2004 Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:35 am:        Just curious, where is the funding for SOPAC coming from, not just the initial construction budget, but the ongoing cost of operations and salaries? What if it can't generate revenue on its own, which is highly likely unless they kick off with some major top notch programming. Does anyone know?   cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 642 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 8:49 pm:        I really dont understand why everyone is so negative against SOPAC. I know there is a general belief that anything the town does must be a screwup (not saying the latter is right or wrong.) All of my neighbors I've talked with are eager to see SOPAC built. Many have been frustrated with the lack of initiative in building downtown. I think a small movie theater and performance space is a perfect fit with South Orange. I'll certainly spend money there. (Neen: I can't answer your questions, unfortunately. I know from reading other threads here that there are people here who say the entire project is a Watergate-level conspiracy of shady dealings, inappropriate payments and incompetent lawyering. Others say none of that is true. All I know is I want a movie theater.)   mary032 Citizen Username: Mary032 Post Number: 120 Registered: 8-2001 Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 10:14 pm:        Monty. you want a movie theater that will cost us the taxpayers nearly one million dollars per year for the next 20-30 years? Because, without a operational business plan of the theater that's what we are getting right now. That's an expensive movie you are going to see.   woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 883 Registered: 9-2002 Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 4:02 am:        Mary, can you clarify that million dollars? Is that the expected operating budget for SOPAC? Or is it a full budget? Why kind of revenue does that assume?   cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 643 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 8:48 am:        Mary: Where are you getting these numbers? And anyone: Posting links to primary sources here would be most appreciated.   South Orange Alliance for Redevelopment Citizen Username: Soar Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 10:34 am:        Monty: Please check SOAR's web site (www.southorangesoar.org) for more information on various SOPAC concerns. SOAR has spent a lot of time looking into SOPAC-related problems, and the situation is certainly troubling.   Pizzaz Citizen Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 1415 Registered: 11-2001 Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 10:53 am:        Just as an aside, some of the funding of overhead costs related to SOPAC/VAC can be found in the Parks and Recreation Department. The average funding for the past three years has been approx. $225K or in total including the anticipated budget outlays through 2005 of over $925K (I do not know if funding had been provided through the Rec.Department prior to 2002). In addition, I don't know who in the public has ever seen an accounting of those funded dollars. Please, don't mistake me, I too would like to see a movie theater in town, but let's get realistic to what we can afford and whether we've planned the logistics adequately.   cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 645 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 11:02 am:        Thanks for the link. I wasn't aware of the SOAR Web site. It's great to see a group of citizens banding together to try to make things happen, and even better that the group recognizes the importance of transparency. The site has a lot of detailed information. The site also has a clear point of view regarding SOPAC -- that is, that it is a generally bad idea that has been mismanaged from the start. While I'm not challenging that view, I come to this as someone who is looking to learn more from the issue. It's hard for me to consider some of SOPAC's most vocal critics as an unbiased source. I see from your site that someone named Howard Levison "has concluded that there is a highly likely scenario where SOPAC will have a shortfall of up to $750,000 annually, which the taxpayers would have to subsidize." I also see Mr. Levison -- whom I don't know -- is described as a candidate for BOT. I don't know what numbers he looked at, or how he arrived at his estimate. Do you? I'd like to see the numbers and draw my own conclusions, if at all possible. Another comment on the site: "One interesting thing we learned was that the proposed structure will not accommodate theatrical productions, as it has no costume room, set workshop or storage room." You learned this from the SOPAC people? I read a press release last year from Seton Hall where they were mentioning something about chipping in some money for the project to "expand" it's live-theater possibilities. I just did a search and can't find it now. Anyways, it would be helpful for people like me -- who tend not to believe anything until they see the original data themselves -- if you posted your sources for everything. You say, "Now we find that the design of the center will not allow for live theater." That seems like such an absolute that I'm skeptical why the town is still promoting the building as a place to see movies, music and live theater. Again, I'm not saying your conclusions are somehow wrong. I'm saying that I'm a person coming to this with no baggage in terms of being for or against the project (aside from the fact that I really want a movie theater in town). Convince me one way or the other.   cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 647 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 8:56 pm:        Where'd everybody go? Mary, I found the numbers you posted alarming. Can you help point me in the right direction where I can find out more about how you arrived at them?   doublea Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 860 Registered: 3-2003 Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 1:59 pm:        I've looked at SOAR's website and the statement that "We now find that the design of the center will not allow for live theater" is incredible. I know that in general, when residents try to ask questions about SOPAC, either at BOT meetings or on MOL, they are told it's a SOPAC matter and to ask SOPAC. (Mark - I'm not referring to you specificaly because I know that has been the response from the BOT). It seems that SOAR has met with SOPAC and this is their conclusion. If a trustee can't respond online, it seems that one way for residents to find out on their own is to attend the next SOPAC meeting. I checked the calendar of meetings on the Vilage website and there were no meetings in January (which is over) and the February schedule is not up yet. Does SOAR have any suggestions how residents can get information as cmonty has requested. My recollection is that in June, when SOPAC made a presentation to the BOT, a consultant was introduced (who lives in Westfield as I recall) who said that the plans included bringing Broadway plays which had finished their runs. SOAR's findings seem at odds with this. And if we go way way back, I think the plan was that the revenues generated by the movies would cover any losses sustained by the theater. Can SOAR respond to this. Thank you.   mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 1668 Registered: 4-2002 Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 2:31 pm:        SOPAC will have a live theater with 425 seats. I think (and I don't want to talk for them) SOAR means that certain types of live performances will not find this theater acceptable (their opinion not mine). The "SHU improvements" took care of some of those concerns. Let's try and remember, this is a small theater and is not meant to compete with NJPAC or the Paper Mill in terms of productions. I would doubt that we will ever see major musicals at this theater, but there are a lot of other performances that will work. Doublea: I agree with you about residents going to a SOPAC meeting or at the least contacting SOPAC's President or the new executive director who was introduced at a recent BOT meeting. The SOPAC board has about a dozen volunteer members, most of whom live in S. Orange (maybe all of them do but I seem to remember that one or two of them live in Maplewood). They all want to make this theater as sucessful as possible and they understand the goal is for the building (theater, movies, and mulit-purpose event room) to not only help make the downtown more succesful but that it should be able to opearate in the black. One of the arguments for SOPAC was to create a destination for the downtown which would help bring in better businesses. I do think that from an informational point of view, it would make most sense if residents who have an interest in SOPAC to get their information from SOPAC either by contacting SOPAC or going to one of their meetings.   South Orange Alliance for Redevelopment Citizen Username: Soar Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:49 am:        I am the President of SOAR and I want to address the facts that are posted on our Website. About 2 weeks ago, we were privileged to have Barbara Stoller, the President of the SOPAC Board of Directors, as well as Jessica Finkelberg, the new Executive Director of SOPAC address us. All comments/facts that you see on our Website are verbatim information supplied to us at that meeting. It should be noted that neither Barbara nor Jessica are responsible for the myriad problems associated with SOPAC. They are working with what they were given and attempting to make it work. Unfortunately, that may be a hard or impossible task given what they have. SOPAC's design was accomplished by the previous board of directors, led by Bill Calabrese (he was the President of the Board) and John Gross (he was the Executive Director). Many prominent residents of South Orange served on that original board. None are left. Many left in frustration and concern that professional advise on the the Center's design was not being heeded. Many other professionals who live in town and are associated with the theater and performing arts, came forward to help but they were all dismissed. The impression we get is that the Village was set on building this facility come hell or highwater. Bill Dahn, a local architect, who was in charge of the recent and successful renovation of the Count Basie Theater in Red Bank, spent over a year attempting to point out the shortcomings and problems associated with SOPAC's design. He was met with resistance at every turn. He did point out very obvious design mistakes which included inadequete theater accomodations, sub-standard materials, sound issues, etc. Seton Hall has agreed to give us $20,000 a year until their million dollar committement is met. For that, a balcony was added to the theater to accomodate more people (to insure marketability) and a backstage and side wings were added...none of which were part of the original design! A theater without a backstage or wings? Yes. There still remains the issue of no set design rooms, no costume design rooms or storage. This information was given to us by Barbara and Jessica. Jessica went on to say that given the severe restrictions associated with the theater's design, she is not going to be actively looking for theatrical productions but conversely, only live music. This is what she did at Harms Center in Englewood where she previously worked. These live musical acts will be restricted by the size of the theater, 415 seats. Many of the act she is considering were not recognized by SOAR members at the meeting. SOAR was shocked to hear this news. Upon questioning , she repeated her assertion that the Center is not equipped to handle theatrical productionms and yes, the original purpose of the Center was to bring mid-level, pre-off Broadway-type productions to South Orange. Howard Levison is a residentof SOuth Orange, a professional and a member of the CBAC, the Citizen's Budget Advisory Comittee. A position on the CBAC is done via appointment by the BOT. The CBAC reviews all financial planning/budgetary issues for the Village to give the Village input on how monies are being spent and to point out what they may see as prospective issues and problems. Howard has been putting together numbers on SOPAC for some time now and he has serious concerns about the viability of SOPAC. He is privy to our town's budget. He estimates that we, the taxpayers, could be poised to make up a shortfal of from $300,000 to $750,000 annually! SOpac has no business plan! SOPAC has not filed their non-profit status with the IRS. SOPAC has not begun fundraising as they have yet to come up with a mission statement that would allow prosective donors understand who and what SOPAC wants to be. The Village is giving, not loaning, SOPAC an operating budget, which they were never supposed to do. All operating monies were to come from fundrasiing. This past year they gave them $150,000 to SOPAC and in 2005 they will receive $300,000...all out of the Village's general operating budget! In other words, your pocket. There is no parking for SOPAC other than the NJ Transit lot which is full up to 8pm at night. This is an issues that concerns Ms Stoller very much but she has yet to hear any concrete plans for parking. Where will prospective theater-goers park? This all goes back to the fact that there is NO master plan for redevelopment in this town. The original study by the ATlantic Group was done over ten years ago and is outdated and inapplicable. There is no master plan that allows for traffic flow, pedestrian flow, adequete parking and layout of new buildings. SOAR wants the total revitilazation of SOuth Orange BUT done in a manner that will make it a success. The present redevelopment comittee, that controls all aspects of redevelopment in our Village is comprised of the Mayor (President of the BOT) the Village Administrater and the Village Attorney. None of these individuals has any experience or expertise in redevlopment and is is evidenced in the pace and quality of redevelopment in SO. SOAR seeks to replace that entity with a DRMC (Downtown Redevlopment and Management Corporation) that is headed by a professional Executive Director with highly specific credentials in redevelopment and town management. The DMC board will make their final recommendatios to the BOT at the end of March and this is a development that each and every resident of this Village must watch very carefully. If you want change and success in South Orange ,then insist on a DRMC. Please feel free to visit our Website at www.southorangesoar.org. I am also happy to answer any questions as well from whatever facts I have compiled. Shelley Stile   cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 650 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 8:22 pm:        Shelley: Thanks for the detailed and informative post. One quick point: Every time I hear SOPAC referred to -- by my neighbors, fellow train riders or random people i find myself making small talk with at the train station -- it is always referred to as "the movie theater." I didn't live here when the idea for SOPAC was hatched, and so obviously know nothing about what its "designers" intended. However, from my (admittedly small, thoroughly unscientific) conversations on the issue, I think it's safe to say that at least a significant group of people see this as a movie theater development. Again, not saying that changes anything -- you may feel that the business plan for this as a movie theater is equally flawed. I'm just not sure how many people are going to be upset that the live-theater options are going to be limited (if indeed they are -- still seems like a matter of debate).   South Orange Alliance for Redevelopment Citizen Username: Soar Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:11 pm:        Monty- I suggest that you call Jesica Finkelberg, the new Executive Director, and get it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. SOAR always had grave concerns regarding the theater's designs and the associated facilities that would allow it to attract theater companies. SOPAC was never intended as a producing house. The goal was to attract theater companies. Given the original plan didn't even have a backstage or side wings, there would have been no productions whatsoever. Now however, there are those items but not set or costume design rooms. Storage is nearly non-existent. According to Jessica, she ( and she will do all the bookings) will not be actively soliciting any theatrical productions. If they come, that's fine but without adequete faciltities( and that has always been the problem with the desing of SOPAC, the result of advise never being heeded), that possibility is limited. Seton Hall may use the theater for classes and their students could learn how to use a 'board', whatever, but it does not appear as if we will see much, if any, in the way of live theater. As far as the movie theaters, there is supposedly an operator in the wings to lease the space. We have been assured that it will be an artisitc movie house but that remains to be seen.   mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 1670 Registered: 4-2002 Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:06 am:        A couple of corrections to Shelley Stile's post. First, SHU will be giving $50,000 plust interest each year for 20 years which covers a $1,000,000 bond (net result is that $1,000,000 was available immediately). Also, SHU will have to pay their own costs for any show they want to put on. Second, there was a business plan but a revised one needs to be done under the new executive director. SOPAC did file with the IRS (under the name village arts center). A survey of the parking lot shows that there has been on average over 100 empty spots at 7:30 pm in the NJ transit lot during the week. Anyone who has been to the Paper Mill know very well that many people park in the lots on Milburn Ave and walk the three blocks. We have a parking lot on third street that is just over two blocks from the theaters and it is usually empty (completely empty on Friday and Saturday nights). Several experts said because of the cost of doing live theater we could be well advised to seek music acts or small theater proudtions and to avoid the large theater productions because we would need a far larger theater (number of seats) to compete for those shows. A new traffic/parking study was completed for the village over a month ago. The board plans to review and discuss the options based on the study. Recently a presentation was done on the river corridor project (available on the website) which included some ideas/plans for improved parking and pedestrian flow in the downtown and specifically right by the theater. Again, I suggest that anyone who wants information to contact Mrs. Stoller or Ms. Finkelberg directly and not rely on second hand information. Both of them seem to have a positive outlook about SOPAC and expect they can work within the framework of the theater and the parking.   South Orange Alliance for Redevelopment Citizen Username: Soar Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:26 am:        Mark- Thanks for the correction on SHU and it's annual $50K but that was not the information that we were given. SOPAC has not filed it's status as of yet with the IRS and there is no current business plan with the present design and financials. That too is a fact. As far as parking, with the possibility of over 600 movie theater seats and a 415 seat musical venue (not theatrical productions!), we are in sorry shape for parking. I hope that the BOT will see fit to remedy this situation before SOPAC is built. A possible 100 slots (and I have not found that to be the case) in the NJ Transit lot will not accomodate the Center. Far from it.   mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 1672 Registered: 4-2002 Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:29 am:        I will agree - parking is a big concern.   cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 658 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:50 am:        How is the parking situation any different from Maplewood? How many seats does the Maplewood theater -- which is nestled among many sit-down restaurants -- have? South Orange seems to have a lot more downtown-area parking than Maplewood, and we have far fewer businesses.   Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 678 Registered: 5-2004 Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:52 am:        Shelley, I'm curious. How can the parking issue be resolved? Where can parking be added in town without completely pissing off some other group?   mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 1673 Registered: 4-2002 Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 11:00 am:        Cmonty: I agree about Maplewood, and if you notice on a Fri/Sat night how cars are parked in all the way up Maplewood ave and on the various side streets in front of people's homes. Rastro: Parking decks would seem to be the only answer and I agree that some would not be happy about that (no matter where you put one).   snshirsch Citizen Username: Snshirsch Post Number: 337 Registered: 1-2003 Posted on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 3:31 pm:        100 spots may not be so awful, and that's only right next to the theater. Within walking distance is also the lot behind the Junior High, the library, the lot behind Shop Rite, and the first aid squad. Compared to how far people walk to get to the Maplewood theater it can't be that bad. It would be interesting to know how many spots are actually available in all of Maplewood Village vs. South Orange. The equation probably needs to consider numerous drop-offs (teens to the movies) and more than one patron per car.   doublea Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 861 Registered: 3-2003 Posted on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 5:08 pm:        The Village President has mentioned at two separate Planning Board meetings that South Orange has been discussing acquiring the N.J. Transit lot from N.J. Transit. Also mention was made of building a deck on the N.J. Transit lot. This was mentioned in the Planning Board meetings in relation to the spillover parking that would be required for Beifus and the rebuilt Afghan Rug building, since both required parking space variances. Beifus loses spaces by not building the parking deck, as had been originally approved.   MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 1865 Registered: 5-2001 Posted on Tuesday, February 1, 2005 - 5:31 pm:        The Village President also said the supermarket, SOPAC and Beifus were to be completed 4 years ago & that "God wanted him to win" his last election. If you believe anything he says, I'll sell you a bridge in Brooklyn, along with the NJ Transit lot.   South Orange Alliance for Redevelopment Citizen Username: Soar Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 10:24 pm:        From what I know, when the Village asked NJ Transit to build a decked parking facility when the present "new" lot was being planned, NJ Transit declined and said they would not revisit the issue for at least 5 years. If my math serves me right, that was 2 years ago. The absolutely best way to increase parking would be a decked lot at the NJ Transit lot site. I heard a rumour, and I am only saying it was a rumour, that the Village was also thinking of taking the Beifus property and creating a decled lot there. I thknk that would be a waste of prime SO Avenue real estate. Unfortuntely, no one at Village Hall is answering the question of parking. If they are addressing the issue, it is behind closed doors, as usual.   mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 1677 Registered: 4-2002 Posted on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 9:34 am:        Shelley: Actually, we have discussed the parking deck sites at Planning and zoning meetings (about one year ago in public) and I know it was discussed at a parking authority meeting (in public). NJ transit declined to build the deck (and it goes back more than five years already) because they felt there were too many against them building a deck. I would prefer to see the town build the deck and keep control of those spaces rather than have NJ Transit build one. Any negotiations with NJ Transit will be done in private. There has been no talk among the BOT about building a deck. There has been a thought that maybe we could pave it and use it as a parking lot if a deck gets built in the transit lot while finding a new developer for the Beifus lot (since most of us believe Mr. Beifus will never get to the next step).