| Author |
Message |
    
Alonso Mosley
Citizen
Username: Jack_walsh
Post Number: 31
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 7, 2005 - 5:24 pm: | 
|
I appologize for that post bashing the school system. It's been 20 years sisce I've attended School in this town But, I'm sure that the Quality of education in this town's public schools is outstanding. And I'm sure that the teachers dedicate every ounce of time and energy they can to educate their students.
The point I was trying to make, however, is that there are Irvington an Newark taxis in the A.M and P.M in front of CHS. And there are kids from the middle school getting on NJT busses in the afternoon. Busses marked Irvington and Newark. As a longtime resident of South Orange, I feel I have the right to know if My tax money is going towards educating kids that don't live in this town. |
Revolution
Citizen
Username: Revolution89
Post Number: 2
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 7, 2005 - 7:15 pm: |
|
The issue here seems to be a need for REVOLUTION - A coalition of residents from various communities fighting for progressive issues. Politics as usual have to stop. Also a focus on the real issues is a key - the issues important to residents.
Personally, I feel if someone wants to come to a South Orange school then they should be able to. Besides I think they would probably have to pay tuition if they don't live in the district. Also, how much an issue, such as the one above described by Mosley, affects residents' lives and what is its' importance say compared to having affordable health care or access to quality affordable food can help put it into perspective. I feel that when a stance on an issue comes across as a "me" issue as oppossed to a "we" issue, it has the potential to divide communities (of different towns), rather than unite them.
This brings me back to what Old and Grey was saying about seeing how other towns are solving problems. I propose even looking at what other towns and communities are doing here and around the world. As community residents we have the potential to create a community plan and vision... here is an example of a beginning of one from the City of Carlsbad, California. They got together, held a charrette, and started by outlining what ideas they had about public space, a vision for 50 years from now, services, community space, and connecting shops, parks, open space, for a dynamic people-centered community.
A gathering like this does not require much money: a free gathering place (library room), markers and pads (maybe $40), and homemade snacks (the participants pitch in). I have attended a charrette before and it is nothing short of amazing!!
Unlike a community meeting or hearing issued by the town, a charrette is informal, inclusive, and encourages creativity.
For more on charrettes see link below:
http://www.charretteinstitute.org/resources/charrettes/article.html |
ROGER
Citizen
Username: Roger
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 12:16 pm: |
|
Alonso is right about kids coming in FROM neighboring towns. EVERY PARENT with kids in the system knows about it. So as a taxpayer, why do I have to fund kids getting a free ride particularly when we are dealing with an already overcrowded system???? |
Daniel I. Goldberg
Citizen
Username: Dig
Post Number: 54
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 1:11 pm: |
|
Allan and the Trustees too arrogant to engage in public discussions over the governance of the Town:
The first step to the recovery of the down-town and getting the redevlopment on track is acknowledging and admitting (the gross) mistakes of the past. You and other Trustees (in reference to the John Gross pay reallocation scandal, at least one Trustee refused to admit that the Town was outraged over the Board's passage of the reallocation resolution) are in complete denial. And, for that you and the balance of the current Trustees (minus Patrick Joyce and Mark Rosner) will pay the price.
Unfortunately, your Board's opportunity has come and gone. When I heard, for example, that the Planning Board (don't tell me the the Trustees don't have power over the Planning Board) agreed to extend Beifus' permit to building on his property, I was completely dumbfounded. What reasonable explanation could be given for such BAD policy.
Warning: If Beifus and/or Calabrese think they are going to curry favor with voters before the May election by clearing the Beifus site for additional parking spaces, and claiming that they have begun "redevelopment" at the site, I can assure you that there will be an upheaval of opposition like you have never seen before. The trickery of Beifus and Calabrese on the eve of the last election was transparent, and will not be tolerated again. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 334
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 1:58 pm: |
|
Roger, I absolutely agree with you and Alonso that any kids coming from out of town regrettably must be identified and either dismissed or charged tuition, given the way education is currently funded.
If "every parent" knows about it, and assuming you're a parent, have you given the district any information you have about out-of-district student(s)? The district has procedures in place that look fairly effective, but with more community support, they might be able to accomplish more. |
Alison
Citizen
Username: Alikoz
Post Number: 81
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 2:11 pm: |
|
Daniel Goldberg: Hold it right there, mister!
It is a crude generalization to say all the trustees are "too arrogant" to engage with the public on the issues.
Mark Rosner is not only willing to respond to village issues on this site, he does so with such fervor it is difficult to believe the man also holds down a full time job. He is VERY interested in the needs of his neighbors-- those from all walks of life within the SO melting pot.
Let's not lump all the Trustees together, lest we discourage those who do particpate from continuing to do so. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 1968
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 2:28 pm: |
|
Alison - I read Daniel's post as being addressed to "Allan and the Trustees too arrogant to engage in public discussions". In other words, those Trustees who don't participate in public discussions. He explicitly "exempted" Patrick & Mark in the next paragraph.
I think Daniel's post was right on the mark, especially the part about the John Gross salary reallocation being a SCANDAL. This is worthy of an independent investigation. |
Alison
Citizen
Username: Alikoz
Post Number: 82
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
|
MHD:
I see. Mea Culpa! |
arizona
Citizen
Username: Arizona
Post Number: 137
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 3:52 pm: |
|
One of the biggest problems faced by our school district is the inappropriate and inaccurate bashing it takes from SO and Maplewood residents.
No school system is perfect. Our's may not be the best but it produces many outstanding students and is staffed my many outstanding teachers.
BTW if you are going to criticize the district it would look better if you had fewer typos in your messages. |
Taylor M
Citizen
Username: Anotherusername
Post Number: 373
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 4:30 pm: |
|
arizona
HaHaHaHa Maybee the typos ar an idikation of the skool? |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 27
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 5:09 pm: |
|
Well I think it isn't appropriate for any out of town students to be in the school.
I think the students in SO/M schools are coming from districts that have issues beyond what SO/M residents complain about and there is nothing wrong wanting to send your kids to a good school district...but do like the rest of have too or had to do when our kids were school aged, MOVE INTO THE TOWNS WITH THE GOOD DISTRICTS. I think its a scam to find someone's address in these towns and pretend their kid lives there. |
ROGER
Citizen
Username: Roger
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 5:15 pm: |
|
MJC,lets get real. It shouldn't be my job to police which kids come from other towns. I believe someone already gets paid for that (funded by us taxpayers). |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 5:30 pm: |
|
Actually, Roger, the district would be better served if those people who know an illegal student would turn them in. Unfortunately for the taxpayer - if they know the child, it is likely that they are also fond of them.. and won't turn them in. Whether you view it as "your job" or not, if you know someone is in the system illegally and have not turned them in, you have no right to complain.
Arizona - those of us who have been here a number of years remember the days when Columbia excelled. Yes, they still produce a handful of merit scholars, yes, there are some wonderful programs and some wonderful teachers.. but the "glory days" are long gone. Gifted students and those who require assistance from the resource room do well - the high and low of the spectrum, if you will. The others seem to just pass by. |
Revolution
Citizen
Username: Revolution89
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 5:49 pm: |
|
It's easy to say MOVE INTO THE TOWNS WITH THE "GOOD" DISTRICTS. But when a single mother on welfare is priced out of the area by rising property values, and has to deal with Jersey Machine Politics where change is slow or static where there is most likely a good deal of racism/sexism/classism... what would you do?!!
Regarding O&G's "Does our township's officials live in a bubble...do they not look outside of South Orange for solutions to problems..."
I offered an example of a solution above...if any trustees or candidates are listening.... |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 432
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 10:10 pm: |
|
It isn't just the single mothers on welfare who are priced out...my babysitter and her husband would dearly love to move into Maplewood, S. Orange, W. Orange, or anywhere else where they would feel safe allowing their kids to walk to school, but can't manage it on their two salaries, given current valuations (but they keep looking!).
The probably will have to ante up for Catholic school to get them out of the schools that they are in in Irvington. (but no, they don't try to sneak into other districts).
This is a huge problem for New Jersey. I work with an organization serving homeless families, and am deeply saddened by the number of people we see who have reasonably good jobs (e.g. county jobs), but live one problem or mistake away from homelessness.
Wish I had a clue for a realistic solution. |
Taylor M
Citizen
Username: Anotherusername
Post Number: 382
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 11:59 pm: |
|
Rev- If you feel so strongly about that why don't YOU pay the tution for these kids? An after thought, you don't happen to own a business in town? You sound an awful lot like a business owner I was speaking with a few months ago. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
|
I can't pay attentoin, much less tution! My saks almitey, not to mentuon busyness. |
ROGER
Citizen
Username: Roger
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 7:52 am: |
|
SourLady, I believe that as long as my taxes are up to date, I should always have the right to complain. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 337
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 9:37 am: |
|
Certainly you have a right to complain; it's the American way!
But if you have knowledge that would help improve the situation and choose not to share it with people who can take action, or if you're talking through your hat when you say "every parent knows," then people may choose not to take your complaint very seriously.
Bring your info to the district, or suggest a way to detect and remove out-of-district students that's legal AND the district isn't already using it, and I'd be all ears, as would the board and administration, I imagine.
happy sunny day -
MC |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 10:16 am: |
|
Revolution...I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion regarding single moms and being forced into depressed areas...I'm sick of hearing about racisim, gender bias, age discrimination...the world is what it is...and generally its fair to people, not always, but in general it is...If you don't want to live in Newark or Irvington or other poor districts...then there are towns in western Morris County (served by a train line, and transit buses) that have low rent apartments...cheaper then most advertised in Newark, the opportunity to move out poor districts is there. I cannot stand the view that people are afflicted and being discriminated against by the State or by some political party.
Here is my opinion for those who were not fortunate enough to be born to a good situation, like myself who was a product of Newarks West District years ago: Join the military, Its a job, its got free job training, college reimbursment, and they provide for your immediate family with schools and shelter. Unfortunatly joinning the military these days is seen as a negative in the liberal world. As a veteren of a foreign conflict and one who has a son currently serving, its an honorable thing to serve your country regardless of what president sent you oversees and whatever reasons your there. In retrun the military provides excellent benefits compared to a part-time or full time job working as a nanny or a check out clerk.
|
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 434
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
|
Please don't tell my babysitter to move to Western Morris county unless you are going to tell me who to hire as a new babysitter! We actually do need to have a lower-income labor pool in the eastern half of the state.
I didnt' say that the state was discriminating, but that we need a plausible solution to housing for people of modest means, here in Essex county.
BTW, I've spoken to people involved in homeless issues in Morris -- they actually have problems very similar to ours in terms of housing cost mix.
The military is a fine answer for some, but I'm not sure that it makes much sense for my 40 something babysitter, with 4 children and grandchildren in her home. Besides, the military has entrance requirements that many of the underclass actually cannot meet (my babysitter is still working on her GED). I don't think that the military alone can solve the issues of poverty that we face in America, although it is the perfect solution for some. |
ROGER
Citizen
Username: Roger
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
|
It looks like I have offended some people by complaining. From now on I will only complain about people that complain about others complaining. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 435
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
|
ROGER, I just hope that if you see a crime being committed you call the police, rather than waiting for them to figure out where crimes are being committed. After all, your tax dollars pay for police, so why should you have to call in crime reports?
You're welcome to complain here, but don't take offense when others disagree with you, or question your logic!
[as an aside...I am not necessarily comparing illegal school attendance to criminal activity, but do think that citizens may have the same reporting responsibility] |
ROGER
Citizen
Username: Roger
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 12:10 pm: |
|
Susan, please believe me when I say that I agree with you 100%. All I am trying to say is - would you do it? So hypothetically, if you knew that your fourth grade child had a friend at school who is an illegal student - would you report him or her?
This is the same as your logic of reporting a crime....If your child or parent does something illegal, would you report it to the police? (and by illegal, I mean a misdemeanor, I certainly hope that you would report a major crime!)
|
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 436
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 1:43 pm: |
|
You are right...it is the same issue, and a very difficult one.
Is the parallel crime to registering an illegal student a misdemeanor, or is it felony-level embezzlement (based on the dollar value of services being taken)? And would I report my child/parent/neighbor? I claim to high ethical standards, but real life can get very tricky.
Very tough questions, but I personally can't ethically fall back on the argument that it is someone else's job to catch them. The tough ethical decision would be mine to make, and in the end I think that I would call the BOE and suggest an investigation if I had very solid evidence (more than just seeing a taxi, which could be taking someone to an afterschool activity or job, rather than home). |
Revolution
Citizen
Username: Revolution89
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 10:03 pm: |
|
O&G
You say the world is generally fair...I'm not sure what world you're living in but consider this:
Only five occupations listed by the Bureau of Labor Statistics -- including "butlers" and "housekeepers" -- bring less pay than a first-year Private's base pay, according to a survey by outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas.
(source: http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/20/pf/saving/war_military_pay/)
1500 troops have died in the unjust war in Iraq.
(source: http://www.mfso.org/)
Just before Memorial Day, Veterans Affairs Secretary Anthony Principi said, "Our active military respond better to Republicans" because of the tremendous support that President Bush has provided for our military and our veterans". The same day, the White House announced plans for massive cuts in veterans' health care for fiscal 2006.
(source: http://healthandenergy.com/watch_what_they_do.htm)
These facts show something that is slightly different than your 'generally fair world'.
Susan1014
I agree. The military is a poor and inadequate answer to poverty! |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 1:18 am: |
|
Revolution...now your just being rhetorical...We could play this game all day me showing you five or six successful facts to my point.
Simple point I can't change your view...and you wont change mine...troops are still dying, which breaks my heart because I support the troops(my son is serving in the gulf now) but I don't support the war...but I will not for one second back down on the support for the men and women over there serving, its not there choice to be in a war, its there job to be in a war because their boss put them there.
Where else can a uneducated unskilled person earn a living besides well fare???? THE MILITARY. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 688
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:08 am: |
|
Roger-
A few years ago there was a story on the news about a child who report their parents to the police for selling drugs.
|
Revolution
Citizen
Username: Revolution89
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:24 pm: |
|
O&G
I'm not trying to change your view, I'm simply engaging you in a dialogue.
And there are a lot more than 5 or 6 facts to back up my statement. However, we do agree on something; I don't support the war either and I certainly don't want anyone getting killed in Iraq, including both U.S. soldiers and Iraqi civilians.
JTA
Ah, now that sounds like some illegal activity! |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page