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Message |
    
Klg
Citizen
Username: Klg
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 4, 2005 - 7:32 pm: | 
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Why not turn that Beifus site into a parking garage? A fairly tasteful two story garage would increase the parking capacity greatly, make the SOPAC more feasible, enhance S.Orange as a commuter town and get rid of that "space". |
hariseldon
Citizen
Username: Hariseldon
Post Number: 299
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 4, 2005 - 8:57 pm: |
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Convince Mr. Beifus. |
elliott spitzer
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 992
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 4, 2005 - 9:27 pm: |
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Condemn the site. Put it out for competitvie bidding to build a parking garage as a joint venture between the Village and a private party. Put retail space on the street level. Work out some economic arrangement with the private party. The Village gets parking and probably more revenue than is comtemplated with the Beifus deal, and the private party does well also. (Just a thought that I've been playing around with for a while now.)
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SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 131
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 4, 2005 - 9:30 pm: |
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I would much rather have a pure private venture than get the village involved - at least if we want to get it done within the next decade. |
mwoodwalk
Citizen
Username: Mwoodwalk
Post Number: 344
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 4, 2005 - 11:00 pm: |
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E Roberts
I'm not so sure we've got 1000 Seton Hall students that would flood the street w/ cars. Presumably some of them don't have cars (I know I didn't in college). And if it came to that, I'd be all for an exception prohibiting SH students from street parking, or for some sort of provision such that only a certain number of cars per housing unit can street park. There's always a solution to these sorts of things. Bottom line is the town has a plausible reason for the rule that will easily hold water in the face of challenges from people like me who believe that the rule is more important as a line item in the budget than as a quality of life measure. In other words, this is more about money for the town than anything else, so let's call it what it is.
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campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 140
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 9:58 am: |
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I agree with Mwoodwalk, the parking issue is just another way for the town to selectively fine certain residents (those of us who have no garages or places to put the occasional overnight guest.) I lived in DC in both Georgetown and American University neighborhoods where very few residents had 2 car garages and there was no giant car problem. The town could always issue resident permits on a yearly basis to those who were either on a valid lease or a homeowner, which would eliminate the call ins and ticketing.
As for the crime issue, I'm not buying into that argument either. I have lived in areas which would be considered much nicer than SO, and cars were allowed to park in front of houses without an accompanying explosion of crime. I think the prohibited overnight parking rules seem to be a NJ thing. I've lived in MD, DC, VA, Fl & Illinois and never heard or seen anything like it before. |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 52
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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I don't think its directed at "Certain" residents, but the town in general. As I read earlier residents without driveways can get permits for lots and the street. Residents can contact the police if they have a guest.
You have the option to get overnight parking for guests...Is it that big of a deal if you are expecting a guest to stop by the police station or call them before midnight to ask permission for an overnight guest.
The problem i think lies in the police try to weed through the valid requests and those who are trying to get a free ride to park everynight. And a lot of residents just don't remember to move the car off the street or to contact the police for permission.
Would you want the revenue generated by the tickets to disappear, as a portion of it does return to the village? |
campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 141
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 12:04 pm: |
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I don't have any objection at all to calling in overnight cars. If that's the way the system is set up, I can certainly live within it. What I do object to is that often when I call I am told that my overnight guests might be ticketed anyway despite my calling them in. Since I have a two car driveway and no garage I don't have any other option available to guests except to park on the street. And yes, I would want the revenue from the tickets to disappear if it is disproportionately coming from people like myself who are village homeowners who simply do not have the physical space to accomodate the occaissional overnight visitor. I think I pay enough in taxes so that if I want to have a guest park in a public street directly in front of my house, I should be allowed to make arrangements without having to shell out an additional fee in the form of a parking ticket, |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 12:55 pm: |
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SOREF-"it is a hassle if you have to remember to call every night and to be told on those stormy nights that no permission is given."
when you call you are asking for the police/parking auth. to use discretion in enforcing the law because of your personal situation, they are giving you the ok to "break the law" (however meaningless it is to you) is it really that much of a hassle? By the way, when the road is snow covered they don't give permission because the county/street dept's have to do their jobs, how'd you like coming out to your car only to find the whole side of it ripped to shreds by a plow? |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 1:09 pm: |
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MWOODWALK-"And please, what is this "PARK" like atmosphere; that's baloney"
How about this, drive through the streets of Newark, East Orange, Irvington etc. at 4 AM. You don't have to go far, right down south orange ave, check the side streets right out of town (montrose st, longfellow, st. paul) then drive on hamilton, harding, lenox etc.
now tell me which has more of a "parklike" atmosphere..........i thought so |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 1:17 pm: |
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MWOODWALK-"The street parking rules are annoying, period. Just because some of you have become accustomed to this annoying requirement, doesn't make it any less annoying"
Yeah, just like those pesky speeding laws, registration laws, or any other of those annoying "rules"  |
snshirsch
Citizen
Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 348
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 2:50 pm: |
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The fine for overnight parking on the street, for those who blow it once in a while, used to be $12. It has recently increased to $45. Not very owner or visitor friendly; what's the point of this exorbitant fine? |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 4:00 pm: |
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Because to most offenders (usually Seton Hall students) 12 bucks isn't that big a deal. I once heard a college student say that if they're gonna be at a frat house all night partying, getting drunk and "getting chics" 12 bucks is well worth it |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 589
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 5:02 pm: |
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It's true- if the fine is financially manageable, peolpe find it "cost-efficient" to break the law. Fines are not raised merely to be punititive but to be deterrent. Years ago, every house that had a burglar alarm would have 10 or 20 false alarms each year. The Village created an alarm ordinance that required all alarms to be registered and to have an automatic shutoff. They also started issuing summonses for more than two false alarms in a year. The false alarms decreased dramatically. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 133
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 8:46 pm: |
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Ace,
That's part of the problem. Some folks want to compare SO to Newark, EO, and the like, while I would like to be compared with Millburn, Summit, etc. Which would you rather be? I thought so too.
As far as parking goes, I would just like to have some options as opposed to being told "go scratch." But that's just crazy ole' me. |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 12:24 am: |
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The problem with options is that there really aren't any. If the dispatcher tells you he/she can't grant you permission on a given night and you respond with "well what do I do then?" what can he really tell you? he doesn't want to tell you to take a chance parking it anyway cause ofcourse that'll be the night the parking authority guy is out, he can't tell you to park it in a lot like rite-aid or PNC bank cause it's private property and you'd be facing much more than an overnight ticket. You'd actually be putting the dispatcher in a hard spot trying to answer you without coming off sounding like a jerk.
As far as comparing towns I think the days of S.O. in the likes of Millburn or Summit are long gone, if you look at all the towns that border us I think we're more like orange, newark, or maplewood than millburn |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 868
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 12:38 am: |
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Ace-
That was an unfair comparison. How about compare those street to Seton Place, Eder Terrace and Boyden? Right now they are in the process of building the gates at the ends of these streets by the Wilden end.
>>>w about this, drive through the streets of Newark, East Orange, Irvington etc. at 4 AM. You don't have to go far, right down south orange ave, check the side streets right out of town (montrose st, longfellow, st. paul) then drive on hamilton, harding, lenox etc.
now tell me which has more of a "parklike" atmosphere..........i thought so<<< |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 12:58 am: |
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Ok fine, but in no way can you say seton place, SO looks like montrose st, NWK. The gates had nothing to do with overnight parking. No part of Boyden ave comes near SO. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 870
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 6:53 am: |
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Ace-
I agree in no way does Seton Place look anything like Montrose St NWK. BUT Harding looks even MORE NOT like the streets you mentioned. And you're right, I was wrong about Boyden being one of the thre streets ending at Wilden. I had a brain fart of one of my nephews would say. (but it isn't far from the area I mention) <g>
No the gates have nothing to do with parking. They have to do with those streets not having a 'parklike atmosphere.'
<Ok fine, but in no way can you say seton place, SO looks like montrose st, NWK. The gates had nothing to do with overnight parking. No part of Boyden ave comes near SO.<<<
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Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 54
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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The gates are a quick and economical fix to a traffic problem...Just cause they look sort of awful and give the street an "unfinished" appearance, its cheaper then forcing the town to dig up and re curb, sod, and cul de sac the streets...and now your giving residents of those streets the ability to live without city traffic cutting through, and the option to reopen those streets to thru traffic if needed.
Sure doesn't look good but bravo to the town for making the streets dead ends and keeping the streets safe for pedestrians and residents, It forces the "local Traffic Only" to be just that!
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 878
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 11:23 pm: |
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Old-
I'm so sure that's the reason the town put up the gates.
<<<Sure doesn't look good but bravo to the town for making the streets dead ends and keeping the streets safe for pedestrians and residents, It forces the "local Traffic Only" to be just that!<<<
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Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 55
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 9:55 am: |
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Aunty: was that sarcasm? If it wasn't disregard this statement: If it was, then is there some hidden agenda that I am not aware of...because at first glimpse slowing traffic down and keeping thru traffic of residential streets is a pretty good practice and a very resonable decision...considering people pay an a$tronomical amount of taxes to live in this town, why shouldn't the town do what it can to solve "resident's issues". Im sure they considered other traffic calming methods as well.
In my opinion Wilden should have been directed onto Eder and Wilden should not continue into the Ivy Hill Section of Newark...This would hopefully bring Wilden back as a neighborhood street and not the thoroughfare it has become. However, even that idea creates a problem of turning Wilden/Eder into a short cut to avoid the ward/Irvington Intersection. Whatever you do to solve a traffic problem at one spot, will create another at a different location. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to isolate the nieghborhoods from vehicle traffic for those who reside in it...Thru traffic and those entering the village to pass through or go to the business district should use the main arteries. |
mwoodwalk
Citizen
Username: Mwoodwalk
Post Number: 345
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 10:00 pm: |
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"Ace",
Let me take your points rebutting my arguments one by one (I will do the courtesy of putting them all in one post, unlike you):
1) I refuse to accept the idea that repealing or modifying this silly street parking rule would somehow lead us immediately into the allegedly awful situation in Newark, etc. We're not talking about a town (SO, that is) with ZERO places to park off the street (such as is the case with the apartment complexes and other multi-unit/postage-stamp size lots so often found in more urban settings). We're talking about some people who have single-lane driveways, or very short driveways, or who---God forbid---have overnight guests. Provide some empirical proof that towns with housing stock like SO turn into aweful slums when street parking is allowed, then I might be willing to consider this as a valid basis for the law.
2) My point about the law being "annoying" is that I don't like it or approve of it and would like to see it repealed or modified. I'm not saying I shouldn't be forced to pay the tickets or follow its requirements while its on the books. Last I checked, I'm allowed to express dissatisfaction with whatever laws or regulations exist. So, for instance, I would be allowed to voice objection to the speeding or registration laws you cite, while still being forced to comply with their requirements or suffer the consequences. Difference is, however, that I think the speeding laws, and driver registration laws have much more valid underpinnings than this STUPID DARN STREET PARKING RULE. I find it amazing, truly amazing, that you all speak up so forcefully in favor of this law. Do you really like it? Really? I mean, seriously, does it give you great satisfaction having to play the two car shuffle, or do you all have two car garages, or wide driveways, or is there just some irresitable force that compels you to play devil's advocate to anyone who complains about ANYTHING having to do with this precious town (which I happen to adore as well, notwithstanding this stupid parking rule and other silliness, like the Xmas music ban---which I'll leave to another day).
IN any event, I think this is all academic anyway, because I don't see a groundswell of support for repealing the law. So take my posts for what they are, a) venting; and b) a sad (and evidently unsuccessful) attempt to find people sympathetic with my frustration. Cheers.
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campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 143
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 8, 2005 - 12:27 am: |
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The people who are most opposed to removing the law probably never have been inconvenienced by the law. Since most people here do have either garages of double driveways, they have not had the pleasure of either receiving a ticket for their overnight guests or of calling the parking authority and being told that despite the fact that you are already paying exorbitant taxes, that you are asking the impossible by requesting permission to put a car on a public thouroughfare directly in front of your house.
As for crime - how many criminals are going to park their getaway vehicle in front of your house for a period of time long enough to get a ticket?
And to those who say it would make SO look like Newark - have you been downtown lately? There are probably as many gaping holes and decrepit buildings in the village as there are in Baghdad. |
Daniel M. Jacobs, PP, AICP
Supporter
Username: Conrail
Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 8, 2005 - 9:17 am: |
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I DO like the no street parking rule. I don't have a double driveway and I do have two cars. The SOPD has always been acommodating. All of the Essex County suburbs have similar rules. When I was just out of college, I lived in an attic apartment in Montclair. As a result I had to "rent" a permit space from the township to keep my car off the street. I liked it then too. It gives the village a park-like aesthetic quality. As do the hidden utilities and the gas-lamps (each of which have their own drawbacks). |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 497
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 8, 2005 - 10:32 pm: |
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I've been inconvenienced by the overnight parking law, but continue to be a supporter of it.
Keeps the street looking far more scenic, and keeps people from parking right behind my driveway too often, making it hard to back out.
We do the single-wide driveway swap frequently, and call the town if we need to leave something in the street. Really not a big deal to us.
There may be some houses and apartments in town that need resident parking permits, for lots or streets. Let's consider solutons for them, but not throw out a reasonable policy in order to deal with some possible exceptions. |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 2:52 am: |
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"Mwoodwalk"
Just as you have the right to voice your disdain for the/a law I or most others who agree with it can do otherwise, the difference is that we'd argue for what's already been accepted as "right" while your arguments seem to be rooted in "bucking the system". If you really had a legitimate reason for not complying with this (living in a building w/out a parking lot or having a home with no driveway) you'd most likely be issued a permit by the town and be exempt from said law, if this isn't the case then it seems like you're also playing devil's advocate. Maybe the entire town wouldn't automatically turn into the cities I mention but if you lived anywhere near Seton Hall I'm sure you'd be posting up a complaint about the student's vehicles taking over the streets. |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 2:54 am: |
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"Mwoodwalk"
Hey, at least I agree with you on the X-mas music thing
DISCLAIMER: second post done intentionally  |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 2:58 am: |
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"Campbell29"-how many criminals are going to park their getaway vehicle in front of your house for a period of time long enough to get a ticket
more than you know, but that's not the point, A cop on patrol isn't going to say, "I'll come back in 30 minutes to see if this car's legit". If there are NO cars on the streets then whether it's 5 minutes or 2 hours it would most likely be noticed. |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 56
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 12:01 pm: |
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Ace: Absolutely try...I cannot tell you how many times I have heard a car idling outside my building and saw it was a police officer right next to the parked row of cars on Cottage St.
Issuing tickets or just checking the vehicle's plates whatever, if its left on the street after 2am it gets the attention of the police. |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 7
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 3:40 pm: |
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It seems the parking issue is heating up on this thread.
Jeff DuBowy... Where are you?
Your input would be helpful, especially since you are running for trustee. |
campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 144
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 8:48 pm: |
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But if the whole point of calling in to the parking authority is to avoid crime, wouldn't the town's best interest be served by actually permitting residents to call in the vehicles and then id'ing them so somebody knows exactly which cars belong, rather than a cop wasting his time by telling you that you might get a ticket anyway despite trying to obey the law.
I DON'T mind the calling in. I object to the arbitrary way in which "permission" is granted. I guess I haven't lived in NJ long enough to adapt to these types of petty annoyances. Since we are only talking about a few times a year that I have overnight guests I think the rule is fine as long as residents ARE allowed to call in tags and not receive tickets. But a charge of $45 five or six times a year so that I can have out of town guests is exorbitant. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 149
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 9, 2005 - 9:31 pm: |
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I cannot get past this argument of "park-like" aesthetic that's been mentioned a couple of times; how is this quality of any concern between the hours of 2AM-6AM?
And, if crime is the primary concern, why allow street parking at any time? I'm sure a criminal would tell you that they prefer to rob a home when nobody's home...
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Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 7:09 am: |
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"Campbell29"
You're missing the point, it's easier to watch for and/or notice one car that doesn't belong then id'ing and keeping track of all the ones that do- doing that would be a much greater waste or time/resources. As far as the "arbitrary" granting you're right, I don't agree with the way that's done, (but for you it's better that way) you'll notice too much that the people on the other end of the line get lax and just say ok to anyone who calls in and states they'll have a car on the street, usually not getting a legitamate reason, this sets a bad precedent being as permission is to be given for exigent circumstances only and setting themselves up for the third degree when that one dispatcher/officer says no.
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Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 7:12 am: |
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"So REF"-I'm sure a criminal would tell you that they prefer to rob a home when nobody's home...
Some will tell you that they like it when no-one's home but MOST will tell you that they'd rather have the cover of darkness to hide their activities.
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SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 154
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 11:08 am: |
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I guess I'll have to deal with the situation.
Of course, I hope the SOPD doesn't break down my door in search of the criminals who may have parked in front of my house... |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 57
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2005 - 12:13 pm: |
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I don't think its set at criminal behavior alone?
For Example: If you notice every morning at about 5 -6 am the Town's DPW sweeps the streets..and as far as I recall They do everystreet in town, this is definantly a luxuary considering when I owned a home in another nearby town the property owner was responsbily for street sweeping within 3 feet of your curbline.
I agree with Ace that the system is somewhat faulted, I am sure that between the Police, the Parking Authority, and the BOT they can come up with a better system to assist citizens who have guests and have an emergent need to leave a vehicle somewhere in town(missing the last train, flat tire, dead battery, etc...) , but from what I observe around my building is a parking lot of cars with SHU stickers and no tickets on them in the morning, So I assume it is pretty easy to get permission to park overnight considering the students who live next to me have no issue with free on street parking each night, If I knew it was that easy I wouldn't have leased a tiny little space from my management company @ $60.00 a month.
I would like to see the car owner/driver be responsible for showing proof of residency for one thing, and also see if the town can trak it in a database maybe they can weed out who abuses it and who is using it in good faith. |
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