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Message |
    
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 2699
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 11:54 am: | 
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Latest communique from Tony:
"Thank you for your continued interest in Town Hall Delicatessen. I apologize for the long delay in the reopening, but assure you that we will be reopening this year!
For those of you that are interested in the details, here’s what’s going on:
The façade has been changed from the original drawings that are posted on the web site. We will be update the web site soon with the newest rendering. The new design is reminiscent of the old Town Hall; we feel this blends into the neighborhood a bit better.
As you can probably guess, the new space is somewhat more compact than the old one. Believe it or not, though, there have been some challenges fitting everything into the new space- even though we always seemed to have way too much space before! Through a lot of trial and error, I believe we have created a design that will be much more convenient for you, and more efficient for us.
I completely underestimated the time it would take to complete the purchase of the building, redesign the space, get all the necessary approvals, and do the construction.
At this point, we are submitting final plans for approval before the end of March. As there is a requirement that the plans must be submitted almost two months in advance, they will be reviewed at the May planning board meeting.
We plan to begin construction as quickly as is feasible after the plans are approved, and anticipate that we will be able to open about 12-14 weeks later.
Thank you for your continued communication; I look forward to seeing you in the new Deli!
Tony" |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 212
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 1:23 pm: |
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This would be nice if it were true. Tony has said several occasions that, yes, there have been delays, but now everything is going great. And every time nothing happens. That is until the next time we hear an update that says everything is back on track again.
I saw him a month ago, he told me that everything was completed, and that construction was to begin within the week. Why? I won't be that upset if I don't have sloppy joes. I don't understand why he would feel that he needs to lie.
Hopefully all this waiting is just a ploy to sell the deli to someone more competent and less deceiving.
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Strings
Supporter
Username: Blue_eyes
Post Number: 444
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 1:29 pm: |
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12-14 weeks after sometime in May puts us in late August/Early September... so realistically, I suppose his original reopening date of November 1st might be correct - only it'll be 2005. |
SouthOrangeNanny
Citizen
Username: Sonanny
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 - 1:31 pm: |
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i'll believe it when i see it.. |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 11:22 am: |
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Heard a rumor he's going to flip the building for a quick profit, and abandon his plan to re-open THD there. Anyone have the facts? |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 108
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 2:22 pm: |
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You are 100% correct. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 507
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 3:18 pm: |
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Pay-off the mortgage, nice vacation home in Florida, chill by the pool.
Shoot…I'll take the money and run too!
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shoshannah
Citizen
Username: Shoshannah
Post Number: 798
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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Matt: You know or you think this is 100% correct? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 1806
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 3:30 pm: |
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I thought he meant it was 100% correct that it was a rumor.  |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5637
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
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How long do business disruption insurance policies pay out? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 1808
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 3:43 pm: |
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In this case, a business interuption policy would not pay out one cent. It was by his choice to rent out the space and he was not forced to move or disrupt the operation. In fact, he had ample time to purchase the Midas property, submit plans and do the renovations. It is because he has moved so slowly that the rumors have started (and they may prove to be true). I wish him the best and certainly hope he does move forward as promised but it looks less and less likely.
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Andrea Weisbard
Citizen
Username: Njnetsfan
Post Number: 138
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 9:45 pm: |
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I thought there were environmental problems or the like with the site, I read that somewhere, it might have been here, that had to be addressed. I might be wrong, and if I am please tell me. |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 45
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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Didn't the THD's owner get preferential, insider treatment by Calabrese and Gross to ensure continuity of a fabled South Orange "institution." S.O.'s initial auction of the Midas property drew no serious bidders, so Gross and the trustees sold it to the THD's owner without a second auction -- after he got a great deal from WaMu Bank to lease out the THD's space.
Didn't the village do anything to ensure its property, which it was controlling for redevelopment and on which it was speculating, wouldn't be used for further real estate speculation beyond its control? If village administator and trustees were going to sell it to a speculator, they simply should have left it with the prior owner -- all the while collecting real estate taxes and avoiding unnecessary capital costs for sitting on a blighted, unleased property.
Is it premature to add this to the pile-up of mis-managed redevelopment projects controlled by those in power? |
joso
Citizen
Username: Joso
Post Number: 278
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 4:34 pm: |
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It is hard to say who is more innept, the Town trustees managing the undevelopment process or the business owners incapable of sucessfully opening a new business. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 109
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 5:32 pm: |
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Well desreved THD backlash. |
Dave
Moderator
Username: Dave
Post Number: 5668
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 5:43 pm: |
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If the sloppy joe isn't patented, there's a huge opportunity to fill a stomach void here. Maybe Bunnys can sell'em? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 7962
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 6:45 pm: |
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Anybody know the sales history on the property? Is this the location that the Village bought from a speculator for something like 25% more than he paid for it six months or so before? How much did they sell it to the THD for?
This has to be public record. |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 2726
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 6:48 pm: |
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Look for "Wish" on Pleasant Valley Way in West Orange to pick up the option, if it becomes legally permissable. Two veteran THD sammich guys are working in the kitchen there...
-s.
BTW: When Tony makes good on his promise to open, I hope every nay-sayer and Doubting Thomas lines up to on Valley Street to offer apologies along with their "Joe" orders. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 110
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 3:36 am: |
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Soda-I'm glad you met Mark & Roger. Welcome to the fam. I always knew we would hit it off. |
SouthOrangeNanny
Citizen
Username: Sonanny
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 8:28 am: |
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NEVER soda.....i wouldn't step foot near anything that has to do with him.....i hate just going to the pool and seeing him there |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 2729
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 8:33 am: |
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Matt: Unless encounters at the old THD location count, I've not officially met Mark & Roger. Both might've crafted "Joes" for me back in the day, but my info about their Sloppy origins came from their present boss, the owner/chef at "Wish", during a pre-dinner chat with me at my table a couple weeks ago.
Nanny: Why so sour?
-s.
BTW: Hope springs eternal. |
kevin
Supporter
Username: Kevin
Post Number: 435
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 9:50 am: |
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Transfer history for 60 Valley.
LICHTERMAN, CAROLE
5314 N. BOCA MARINA CIR
BOCA RATON, FL 33487
sold on 03/15/00 for $460,000 to
ADVANCED INFO-SYSTEM USA, LLC
71 HEATHER LA
COLONIA, NJ 07067
sold on 12/29/00 for $560,350 to
THE TOWNSHIP OF SOUTH ORANGE
101 SOUTH ORANGE AVE.
SOUTH ORANGE, NJ 07079
It's described as a 'community center' in the tax record.
My records don't indicate a transfer from the village yet. That doesn't mean that it hasn't changed hands, but I just don't have the info available.
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Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
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Allegedly sold by village for 10% over failed auction price to avoid public backlash. Why get bogged down with independent appraisals and public auctions for municipal properties?
At a conservative market value of $600K and an effective tax rate of 3%, village has foregone $72K in real estate taxes over fours. With conservative capital/borrowing costs of 5%, the village has spent $120K holding onto the building -- excluding any maintenance (just kidding) and environmental remediation expenses.
Foregone property taxes: $72,000.
Carrying costs: $120,000.
Vacant, blighted eyesore in the center of town: Priceless. |
John Holl
Citizen
Username: Newsdeadline
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 5:36 pm: |
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While waiting for the Town Hall to (eventually) reopen, I've found that Tabatchnick's in the Millburn Mall makes a pretty good sloppy joe (though the pickle leaves a lot to be desired).It's no Town Hall, but it's close. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 767
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 5:38 pm: |
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WHere exactly does so much rumor about a small business in a small town come from? Barber shop? Laundromat? Really, where do I need to be hanging out to get all these gems?
(It seems like the accuracy rate on most rumors posted here hovers around 5%, but I'm still curious.) |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 221
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 4:32 pm: |
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Try talking to the owner, Tony. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 1811
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 2:30 pm: |
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The village sold the property for $632,500 in Dec. 2004 to the owner of the Town Hall Deli.
The building was used to house the jitneys and the parking lot was used by SOPA. Permits were sold for the 12 spaces available in that lot.
There was a no-action letter from the DEP (no environmental issues).
One reason we purchased the property was there was a strong possibility that we were going to have to house some of the equipment for the firhouse during renovations.
I think it costs the village less than 2% to borrow money, so the carrying cost would be less than $48,000.
There was an appraisal done and the property was offered via an auction (open to the public).
The price was higher that what was offered because two bidders made offers after the auction expired.
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 204
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 7:15 pm: |
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Welcome back!
Can you provide the original purchase price and what you feel/estimate have been the legal/closing fees. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 1816
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 28, 2005 - 4:35 pm: |
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Howard, Thanks. I do not remember the closing costs/legal fees. Would rather not guess but will try and get the numbers.
Purchase price was $560,000.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 1832
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 9:52 am: |
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Town Hall Deli has submitted his plans for the renovations of the Midas building for review by the planning board. He is hoping to be on the agenda at the meeting in May.
I do not know the time frame for construction yet (assuming his plans are approved) but clearly this is a positive step and I look forward to having an original sloppy joe this fall.
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Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 2843
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
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Thank you for the update, Mr. Rosner!
-s.
BTW: YAY! |
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