| Author |
Message |
    
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 301
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 8:44 am: | 
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I think I heard that Bill had a solution when Allan raised the question about Beifus becoming a parking lot for 18 months. As usual, Bill did not have specifics. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1250
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 8:59 am: |
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Last nights' BOT meeting -- I believe this is what I heard --
ShopRite Liquors is out by August 1, then demolition and site remediation takes place.
Expect construction to start in September.
Last night it was reported that the New Market operator (Choi?) would actually like to open before the parking deck is completed, but according to Bill Calabrese "we" don't know if that's feasible.
I believe Tracy R brought up using Beifus site for parking -- the BOT responded that Beifus is moving ahead, so that is not a consideration.
Oh, the properties don't actually transfer to the new owners until later this year -- but they have access to do this work prior to that.
/p |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 9:15 am: |
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Explain something to me. Why would anyone do work on a property BEFORE an actual transfer of title? And why is the title transfer being held up? And why would CHoi invest in and open a market without someplace for customers to park?
There are more questions than answers to this whole project. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 303
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 9:24 am: |
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I believe that the underlying question was relating to financial transfer which did not get discussed.
Maybe Mark, Allan or Eric could provide the details in the Developers agreement on how/when transfer/payments will be made and when the Pilot payment will occur.
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1251
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 9:25 am: |
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Ah -- and realize this came from a brief explanation -- is that its about financing (why the transfer happens later this year).
Once all remediation is completed, its easier (??) for the developer to get all the financing in place. So -- not sure if this is a bank requirement OR if there is something else.
Pete |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2035
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 9:46 am: |
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Pete basically recapped it correctly.
As for the property transfer, I have stated previously that I felt it should have been done already and there were other ways to handle any potential problems.
The PILOT payments do not start till the project is completed. |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 262
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 1:49 pm: |
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mrosner (June 23, 2005 - 10:20 am): The market can't open till the parking deck behind it is ready.
mrosner (June 23, 2005 - 11:00 am): What part don't you understand. They plan to start at the same time the parking deck construction starts. Both are expected to take 6 - 7 months time. The market operator wants to open when there will be a place to park.
mrosner (June 23, 2005 - 12:52 pm): It was the decision of the developer and Mr. Choi to postpone starting the renovation of the market.
mrosner (June 23, 2005 - 3:29 pm): Clearly it makes sense to the developer and operator to wait and I think it is the right decision although I don't like having another delay…. As for the property transfer, I will wait for the village president to give his next update as to where that stands. I do not think it is complete as of yet.
mrosner (June 23, 2005 - 4:51 pm): He [developer] had to satisfy the market operator too that there would be a safe way for the shoppers to go to and from the parking lot to the market.
peteglider (Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 8:59 am): Last night it was reported that the New Market operator (Choi?) would actually like to open before the parking deck is completed, but according to Bill Calabrese "we" don't know if that's feasible.
Our heads are spinning. Who precisely is delaying the long overdue renovation of the Shop Rite market site?
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1154
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 4:25 pm: |
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Two Sense, most likely the property developer. He probably represented (or at least intimated) to the BoT that the market operator was on board with his decision to wait. (note, this is all guessing on my part. I have no special knowledge of any of this.)
As Jim Murphy points out above, there are lots of overhead-type costs that can be shared among the construction projects. And while we are all anxious to have a market, the developer is interested in profit. Though holding off puts off some of his income, it might reduce his costs considerably. |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 266
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 4:36 pm: |
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Since everyone is speculating about these delays, I'll speculate that foregone rent on the market building is greater than the INCREMENTAL "cost of an onsite construction supervisor and the support of an ongoing construction site - ie fencing, dumpsters, port-a-johns, phones, security, financing costs."
I'll also speculate that other than site supervision, port-a-johns, phones, and security, all of the other construction costs are site-specific to the market renovation.
However, why is mrosner posting the tenant wants to wait, while the tenant appears to want to get started? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 4:45 pm: |
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Perhaps you could ask Mark directly, then. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2042
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 4:50 pm: |
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Rastro: You are making too much sense and have it pretty much right.
I will leave this alone and at this point, I would just like to see the project progress as has been promised recently (July 31st ShopRite Liquors vacates their property, demolition starts, construction begins at the same time as renovations to the market ) and that it opens next Spring.
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Minimalist
Citizen
Username: Minimalist
Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 4:53 pm: |
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aw, i'll miss the shop rite.
and that cool angled building with the awsome front windows on vose. just out of curiosity how long has that been there?
it's obsolete, mind you, and time for it to be replaced but it has some certian charachter.
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Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 269
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 4:54 pm: |
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I would, but he's gotten a bit testy regarding this subject [mrosner, June 23, 2005 - 12:18 pm: "So whatever the reason, the construction is not going to start before they vacate. There is nothing I can do if you think I am part of the problem for being a messnger via MOL. The point is, a question was asked, I answered and since some did not like the answer I am then criticized. I guess it would be best for me not to respond to questions on MOL."]
Although, he did post 7 more times over the next few days. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 2574
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 8:26 pm: |
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Pete,
Thanks for the update here, too. I especially enjoyed that part to "Expect construction to start in September."
According to the Meeting Minutes of July 19, 2004 (virtually ONE YEAR AGO), Village President Calabrese stated that by September, there should be “a lot of movement in the downtown area.”http://www.southorange.org/minutes/2004/7-19-04ca.htm
I see a pattern here:
First, everything SHOULD happen in September.
Inevitably a delay occurs, but then we are getting into the WINTER months, so we are told things will start moving in the Spring (can't work when it's COLD, can you?)
Then another delay happens and it's just too hot to work in Summer, so things get rescheduled to September.
Then something gets delayed and work is rescheduled to the Spring (it's just too darn cold until then).
THEN, we get an election, so there is a flurry of "activity", but after the election something happens to cause a delay until September (can't work when it's HOT, can you?).....
(repeat indefinitely) |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 47
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 8:55 pm: |
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Private supermarkets are having a very hard time competing with the chains. What makes us think that this market will be successful, and that we won't wind up with an empty storefront 2 years down the line, and then what. The first market which we were told was coming was one run by the Maywood Market in Maywood. Then somehow that faded away. I don't know why. Now its Choi's market. I don't know, but a private market with a parking issue doesn't sound like a formula for success to me. Unless the market is a top notch destination place for which people are willing to give up some convenience of easy parking, I think we may wind up right where we are. |
Starletta8
Supporter
Username: Starletta8
Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Jayjay, I have to respectfully disagree with your last post. Yes, a private market (or any private business) has a tough time competing with the larger chains. There are several factors that make me think (if it ever gets built) it will be a success:
1. The market's in a great place for commuters to stop and pick up fresh ingredients for dinner on their way back from the train station. I'd love to buy most of my perishables on a more frequent basis. If the Farmers' Market stays in this year's location, not as many commuters will be stopping on their way home.
2. Where else is convenient for SO residents to shop? I've heard many people bemoan Pathmark, Shop Rite is a drive, King's has little parking, etc.
3. Supposedly the parking is on the way.
4. We've waited so long for this market that people will make an effort to support it if at all possible, IMHO.
If the market is good (and the parking is eventually built), the people will come. Especially after this long of a wait. |
Minimalist
Citizen
Username: Minimalist
Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 11:35 pm: |
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starletta8:
your #4 is a nice thought, but probably not a reality. people will go a few times but unless everyone else goes, they'll still all shop at whole foods to impress their neighbors, etc. if it becomes a place to impress your neighbors, then people will probably go and go in flocks. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 759
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 9:07 am: |
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Shop at Whole Foods to impress your neighbors????? My neighbors have no clue where I shop, and I could care less where they shop.
Choi's market won't displace Costco, Trader Joes, the kosher butcher or a full-service supermarket (not Pathmark, I'm afraid) in our rotation.
But it will get the quick trip business and on the way home from the train business. For our family it will be a good convenience, and will take some business away from Pathmark (just not a fun place to shop) and Maplewood Kings (a real nuisance unless you just had dinner in Maplewood Village).
And heck, maybe we'll eat more fresh fruits and veggies! |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 4:33 pm: |
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I truly hope the market is a success, but I am having trouble seeing how it will be.
First, as regards parking. It used to not be easy when there was only the Shop Rite lot. Now, you'll be competing for a space with condo owners. There's talk of a deck. I don't relish using a parking deck to go food shopping. It seems a little eerie to me.
Second. Is this Choi's first market or has he run others. The margins in the food business are not great. You've got to know what you're doing. PAthmark is not in great financial shape. A&P won't make any capital investments in the Valley St. store. I am a little queasy assuming that this will be a roaring success, even though we have all been clamoring for a good market. Has anyone vetted Choi?
Third. I don't think the market can make it on commuters alone. And I wonder if it can make if from folks who use it for convenience rather than for basket-loading. If I were Choi, I would want to have my research in hand. Since people are now using other places to shop, he will have to alter their patterns of behavior. Good luck.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 7996
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 4:45 pm: |
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If Choi's is half as good as Fairway, I'd be there. I hope I am like others. I think there is a niche to fill, and he has a chance at filling it. If someone solves the parking problem, the location is excellent.
Our choices in the immediate area are not enough. Whole Foods is too expensive. Pathmark, Shoprite, A&P, etc are too pedestrian. There is a middle ground, and I think South Oranginas and Maplewoodians would flock to it.
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 211
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 5:55 pm: |
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Wow... South Orangians? That name never crossed my mind and it sounds 20 shades of terrible. Honestly, say it outloud. Ouch, right?
Okay, I'll go to the market - it will be fine if the residents put their support around it. If we choose to go elsewhere - it will fail and then we will begin again on who to bring, how to bring it, is it feasible, etc. etc. etc. I, quite frankly, don't want to go through all of this again & there will be no one else to blame but ourselves if it fails.
Maybe the best of planning didn't go into it but there's nothing we can do about it now. |
Abner Aliger
Citizen
Username: Vichy
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 6:55 pm: |
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I could be very mistaken but have told that the CHOI Dynasty owns C-Town; which ain't no Kings or Wegmans! Also since there aren't any descent markets in nearby Vailsburg or Scotland Rd in Orange we in SO should welcome a lot of "neighbors" Fun, Fun, Fun! |
Tracey Randinelli
Citizen
Username: Traceyr
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 9:32 pm: |
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Abner: John Choi and his family do not NOT own C-Town. (Where did that rumor get started????) They own several markets on Long Island. I think one of them is called Banana something??
I've met John and have corresponded with him since last year. He seems like a stand-up, well-informed guy, and I have a lot of faith in him. I think you can find the blueprint design for the market somewhere on the Village web site. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 2579
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 9:55 pm: |
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Tracey,
Since you correspond with John, could you post a full name and/or address of one or more markets he owns, so people could possibly check it out?
A quick google search turned up nothing. |
gotcha
Citizen
Username: Gotcha
Post Number: 32
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 10:07 pm: |
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But Tracey, it was sooo much more fun to post a "rumour" about C-Town. You ruined Abner's fun posting accurate info. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 50
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 10:43 pm: |
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MHD-
I found this article via Google, but I don't know if this is the same Choi.
"HAR Grand Corp. Chain Super H Mart Now In Long Island
Han-AhReum, the Asian food retailer, opened its latest location in Long Island, New York in March to serve a growing Asian population in the region. Its Super H Mart opened in Williston Park and carries popular Asian items such as live eels, seasoned squid, basmati rice and Korean pears. “There are a lot of Koreans living on Long Island, in Nassau County as well as Suffolk,” says William Choi, president. “They have to have a store nearby their homes.” Up until recently, Asian food stores have been predominately in Chinatown and Flushing. Expected competition in the area sees the new Super H Mart as necessary to diversity. “The market is so big, so it’s ok,” says Irene Cheung, assistant manager of V&T Supermarket in Hempstead.
(Newsday, Feb. 22, 2005)"
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gotcha
Citizen
Username: Gotcha
Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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Maybe but....
Among the most common Korean names are Gim or Kim, Lee or Yi, Pak or Park, An, Jang, Jo, Choe or Choi, Jong or Chong, Han, Gang, Yu or Yoo and Yun ... |
Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1179
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 11:06 pm: |
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I heard John Choi speak at a BOT meeting several months ago and share Tracy's opinion. He seems to be an extremely competent businessman and is very interested in serving the community, or I should say communities since John referred to South Orange and Maplewood.
John did say that he has had discussions with John Harvey of Freeman's Fish Market, and it sounded as if John was going to get his seafood from Freeman's. For those of us in South Orange who enjoy Freeman's, this is great news.
I have been a little concerned about the parking, even when everything is completed. I hope there are enough spots for customers. A lot of the spaces will be dedicated to the condos on Vose.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 1539
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 12:27 am: |
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I hope you're mistaken about C-Town because they are gross. At least the one on Scotland is... |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1167
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 12:44 am: |
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Sheena, tom did not make a typo (at least, i don't think so). Many like to call us South Oranginas (Orangina is an orange juice/soda concoction). I don't know what the official term for us is, but Orangina sounds better than most other options. |
AntoninaKC
Citizen
Username: Antoninakc
Post Number: 39
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 12:47 am: |
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I sure did get a laugh out of "south oranGINA's" - it was the first time I heard of that term- pretty funny to me, anyways |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 216
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 9:17 am: |
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hmmm,
okay when you say that out loud it doesn't seem too appealing either... maybe I'm saying it wrong, lol |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 273
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 9:42 am: |
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Should we call ourselves or-an-gee-nas or or-an-gye-nas? |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 222
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 9:55 am: |
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Just call us South Orange Juicers...
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 8011
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 10:32 am: |
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Perhaps the name sounds more appealing to men and lesbians than to straight women. |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3490
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:02 am: |
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Orangites
Orangians
Orangeoise
Oranginos
Orangotangs
Orangiards
Orangim
Orangis
Southies
Orangeers
Orangistas |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 279
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
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How about the more aspirational East Short Hillsians? |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 307
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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And they joked about OrangeADE. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 219
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 3:22 pm: |
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Oh gosh Tom...lol
Ichhhh!!! (how quick I learn...) |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 220
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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Howard,
It may have had a little itty bitty cheesiness factor going on.
But hell... I LOVED IT! |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 1961
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 4:55 pm: |
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It's South Orangeite, I believe. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 1962
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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I hope the New Market has an entrance from South Orange Avenue as that would increase the foot traffic. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 2582
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 5:03 pm: |
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By the way, Does the VILLAGE have a WRITTEN, VETTED PLAN for this major retailer's parking -- PRIOR to COMPLETION of the New Market development?
or are we going to continue to encounter delay after delay because the market cannot open until parking is "done"
It amazes me how this town doesn't have a plan with concrete MILESTONES for any of the "Coming Soon" projects.
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Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1180
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 5:04 pm: |
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An entrance from South Orange Ave. is in the plan. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 1963
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 5:05 pm: |
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Cool. Thanks, doublea! |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 52
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 5:14 pm: |
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MHD-
I agree with you 100%. If our Board of Trustees are going to be in the development business (and not hire professionals to do the work), they ought to follow some basic project management prinicples. One of which is the need for a flow chart of activities with dates and deliverables. And they should be prepared to come down hard when those dates are not met. |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 287
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 5:45 pm: |
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Most redevelopment decisions in Village Hall appear to be made based on pretty pictures -- architectural renderings without construction details. And, the projects obviously don't "follow some basic project management prinicples. One of which is the need for a flow chart of activities with dates and deliverables."
Maybe one of our trustees can share the project management evidence they've received with timelines for these projects -- unless it can only be seen in closed-door executive sessions. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1267
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:18 pm: |
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Unless I'm missing something, the village is NOT the developer!
The town is approving these things, etc., but the developers are others companies/individuals who are actually managing (or not) their properties.
Its the developers who hire project and constrution managers, not the village.
Its the village's job to monitor if schedules are met, not to manage those schedules.
/p
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bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 1970
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2005 - 11:53 pm: |
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pete,
Do you think it may be a bit disruptive to have THREE major "developments" happening concurrently on South Orange Avenue? Who's managing the redevelopment? The village! Is it mishandled? Yes!
Are there any repercussions for blantant and obvious "screw-ups?" No!
I'm sorry, but without the input of an independent, objective downtown redevelopment manager, this town will remain the mess it is.
Can anyone provide any budget information on who's paying and how much the current construction at SOPAC costs?
Real time shot, must be expensive having construction crews work overnight:
 |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 776
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 12:04 am: |
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So, as long as nothing is happening, we'll complain about it, and once something begins, we'll complain about that too?
Personally, when I walked through downtown yesterday, past active work on SOPAC, train station stairs and the firehouse, it gave me a good feeling.
The process is painful and way too slow, but I remain an optimist about the outcomes. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 1976
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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Okay, as long as you're prepared for New Market, Beifus, SOPAC, and Sayid's Rug Store Location all happening at once, I respect your opinion.
I would still like to see some budget numbers for SOPAC. What's the big secret? |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 777
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 12:15 am: |
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Also, Bets, I'd guess that they have to do this bit of construction at a time when the trains aren't running -- i.e. the night shift.
Seems like a wise precaution with giant cranes and huge concrete slabs. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 1977
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 12:17 am: |
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x-post! |
monster
Supporter
Username: Monster
Post Number: 924
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 12:59 am: |
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Since the market will be displacing my favorite source of my favorite libations, I will be forced to boycott it.
Perry, the manager at the ShopRite liqour store has always seemed to get what I wanted, and kept it in stock. I always have my favorites chillin' in the walk-in, just waiting for me to pick them up.
I never really liked the other liqour stores in the area, for one reason or another. |
Minimalist
Citizen
Username: Minimalist
Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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it's probably weither a breakeven ot cheaper overall to do this part of the construction overnight.
when I lived in the minneapolis/st. paul area, they did almost all construction, particularly road construction and parts of building construction, overnight. turns out that while the city/county/whatever will pay more on the contract for wages, they will pay less in extra police to re-route traffic when briging in huge slabs, less disruption to local business, less time to bring the giant slabs in when there's no traffic, etc, etc, etc. you can pay a guy to drive a truck in at 2am, and he's going to get time and a half. or you can have him bring it in at 2pm and it'll take him that much extra time sitting in traffice, etc. and when he doesn't show cos valley's backup up to vauxhall, everyone at the site will be idling as well.
then again most all of their contracts were set up with completion dates, that if they were not met, would result in monetary penalties.
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1268
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
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bets --
I don't disagree -- the village allows/permits/etc people to build or develop on their properties. From that standpoint, yes, the village is allowing (potentially) multiple construction projects to be going on. Each one will be disruptive to some extent -- hopefully not overly so especially to Bunnys and to the commuter parking at the ShopRite.
My point is rather that the village is not the "developer" of these properties -- doesn't (and shouldn't) handle project management, contractors, etc. Its not the villages job to do flow charts etc -- that's the job of the actual developer/owner.
I think this is semantics -- the village is the in the business of seeing that redevelopment occurs -- just not doing that actual building, etc.
MHD's point -- is another one -- ideally the redev agreement with the village would have had a project plan -- with timelines, in the case of ShopRite: say demolition, remediation, deck building, condo building, market renovation, market opening, condos occupied, etc. And the village could have penalized the developer for not sticking to the schedule.
Alas, instead we have "promises"...
Pete
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Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 289
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 11:19 am: |
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peteglider: Sorry, but you don't really understand the process. Because the village either owns the land (Shop Rite, Rescue Squad commuter lot), leases the land (SOPAC), or grants tax abatements and zoning/building variances (Beifus, Shop-Rite), it absolutely has complete say over what's built, how it's built, and how it looks. To think otherwise is naive or uninformed.
EVERY developer presents and sells the Village Administrator and trustees with artist's renderings and cheap talk about ratables. But, none of these developers appears to provide in-depth construction details or project plans with timelines, milestones, and critical paths for timely completion -- let alone parking solutions and contingency plans for delays caused by state agencies or other parties.
And, while developers are notorious for tap dancing their way through this process, it's absolutely essential that elected trustees and their hired hands know what they're getting, and know how to manage the process to serve the best interests of our community.
When trustees wax eloquent about being accountable to voters and taxpayers, voters and taxpayers need to hold them accountable for the fine mess they've created!
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peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1269
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 1, 2005 - 11:45 am: |
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Twosense, there is confusion here over the word "developer"
1) Your point -- "complete say over what's built, how it's built, and how it looks."
Of course, that's the PLanning Board/BOT process -- approving the design etc. The village is responsible if it approves a poor design, does not request enough from the developer, or gives too generous incentives to the developer.
2) The distinction is that the village does not hire the contractors, manage their workers, oversee the projects on a day to day basis, etc.
3)That is the job of the "developer."
4) So if a project is behind schedule (say the steel isn't ready on time, or permits were not applied for on time, or the subcontractors arn't on site as needed)-- that is the fault of the developer, not that of the village.
5) You could however say it is the village's fault to not have included in the contract incentives and disincentives/penalites for doing so!
I do understand the process quite well.
/p |
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