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cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1175
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 6:46 pm: | 
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But I don't understand why you think South Orange residents deserve special access to a parking lot not owned by the town...?
West Orange residents pay taxes that go to support NJ Transit, too, just like you and I do.
Again: The town doesn't own the parking lot. Just because you and I wish it did doesn't change anything. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 140
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 7:12 pm: |
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This was another one of those things that was not thought out by the town trustees. I feel there's more than meets the eye with that parking lot. Why didn't the town buy that land for use by South Orange commuting residents on a priority basis. They are considering doing that now with another parcel. I can't recall what the dealings were, but somehow NJ Transit bought that Sickley parcel, but the South Orange Parking Authority runs it. I don't know what the town reaps from it, except for some designation as a NJ Transit town. Did they contribute the land for SOPAC? And, if so, was that more important than serving the residents?
Then there's the Sickley building. I think that, too was part of the parcel NJ Transit owned. But who owns it now?
I don't know why, but I think there was more to these transactions than we, the residents were let in on. Call me skeptical. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 368
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 7:42 pm: |
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The PA has a contract with NJ Transit to operate the parking facility. The PA pays a fee to NJT and receives all revenues from the operation - permit, daily parking and management fee.
The Town owns (purchased from NJT) the SOPAC parcel and leases it to SOPAC for one dollar a year (the last conversation that I had).
The original recommendation was for the Town to purchase the Sickley property - this was part of the original Main Street design committee initiative.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2163
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 10:17 am: |
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The argument used back then was that NJ Transit would pay the 3 million to convert the property to a parking lot (rather than have S. Orange residents pay). Most of the tax revenue came from the commercial property on S. Orange Ave. NJ Transit sold the properties in pieces (Eric DeVaris was one of the first to buy a lot, Bunny's purchased the last one that was available). Bravo Properties is the current owner of the Sickley building (it was sold twice after NJ Transit sold it). I think every property NJ Transit sold was done thru public auction (except the piece that SOPAC will sit on).
When the spaces were initially available S. Orange residents held about 70% of the spaces. Many of those residents were on the list for the commuter spaces. When their names came up, they would give up the space in the Transit lot since the cost is significantly more.
By the way, back in the early 1990's when this was being discussed - there was no waiting list for a parking space even in the S. ORange commuter lots).
The transit lot is available for free to anyone after the commuters vacate the spaces during the day, all evening and weekends. The theory given by the BOT and VP at the time was that the lot would be available for SOPAC at night and weekends so in effect NJ Transit was paying for a parking lot for SOPAC (I am not in complete agreement with the theory but that was stated when the deal was made). Midtown Direct turned out to be a bigger success than anyone imagined (well anyone at NJ Transit). They did not think they would ever have a waiting list and that the daily spaces could be used by others (non-commuters).
There was also an argument that if there were commuters from other towns, they would see the restaurants, SOPAC, etc and would return for dinner and a show. Of course, SOPAC is years late in coming (as is Beifus) so we still don't know if that will prove to be true.
(and just for the record, again, Bill Calabrese and Allan Rosen were the only two elected officials who were on the board then who are sill on the board today). |
Parkingsux
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 85
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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Repeat...
I'd like to go back to the follow-up question, what is the makeup of the 500 wait listed commuters? How is this to be addressed in the current plan to expand parking, if at all? What preferences do the Parking Authority commissioners or trustee members have in this village undertaking? Are they kept in the loop? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2164
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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Parkingsux: I do not know the make-up of the people on the NJ Transit lot.
The BOT has not been in the loop on the discussions with NJ Transit to this point. My own personal feeling is that we can not handle any more commuter parking in S. ORange (traffic issues mostly). I also think we need more parking for shoppers in the daytime. The biggest complaint we get from business owners and prospective businesses is in regards to the parking. We need to address that issue first and foremost.
I wish NJ Transit would figure out how to increase parking at other stations (especially Orange and Brich Church) to help relieve some of the pressure at the S. Orange station (parking, traffic, overcrowded platforms, etc). Many trains that stop in S. Orange also stop in Brich Church so let them build a deck there for commuters who live west and North of S. Orange.
For the record, I am a commuter, but I just cannot see how we can accomodate any more commuter parking spaces. Expanding the jitney service will help.
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 369
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 2:32 pm: |
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Mark, are you saying that the bond issue you voted for that had $2.5 million for creating additional parking you know nothing about?
That you are not aware of the parking study performed over a year ago that recommended an additional 500 spaces in which all recommendations were for building a deck and the most likely location being the NJT parking facility.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2165
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 2:48 pm: |
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Howie: I don't need you to try to put words in my mouth or for your attempts at sarcasm.
I was talking about the negotiations with NJ Transit about adding more spaces (a deck).
The study said more spaces were needed for a variety of needs including for shoppers, employees and commuters. My opinion is that the priority for addtional parking needs to be for local businesses (shoppers and employees). We have more commuter parking that almost every town on the M & E line (I think only Summit has more).
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Parkingsux
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 86
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 3:04 pm: |
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I agree. No more commuter parking. Thanks for the info. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 143
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 5:31 pm: |
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South Orange's appeal grew directly in response to Mid-Town Direct. In my opinion, the current value of our homes is directly related to our ability to serve the NYC commuting population. The fact that out-of-towners can park in our town, and we still have residents on waiting lists, not only hurts those owners now, but it can turn away prospective buyers.
This calls again for the need for some strategic planning in this village. If we defined ourselves as a commuter town to NYC, then plans would flow from that. We would accommodate commuters with parking. We would have the jitney meet all trains or have a call up service to supplement parking. We would recruit and incent businesses that mesh with commuter needs (maybe with a concierge service like Maplewood).
While its nice to offer more parking for local businesses, it suggests a mentality that if we build it more businesses will come. I'm not sure that's true. Where is the data? Right now, we already have the evidence that enough commuter resident parking is lacking. Duh? |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1177
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 5:43 pm: |
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Just not sure what rationale folks want to use to prevent out-of-towners from PAYING to use a parking lot owned by New Jersey Transit, which serves a train station owned by New Jersey Transit, which services a rail line owned by New Jersey Transit, which is supported by tax payers of the state of New Jersey -- not just us in South Orange.
I'm the most selfish person I know, believe me. But come on. Someone back in the not too distant past traded a parking lot for some magic beans. Stop crying about it, the deal is done. There are other places to build parking garages. You may actually have to walk a few blocks, but you'll live. Let's just get the parking built, and stop trying to force the state to give us parking spaces that we are not entitled to. They won, we lost. |
sullymw
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 785
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:16 am: |
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jayjay makes a good point that the rise in property values is a direct result of people's desire to improve their commute into NY, just as it has in Maplewood. SO needs to place a high priority on making that commute convenient for the people who came here for that express purpose. Everyone in town (not just commuters) has benefitted from Midtown Direct, so it should be a priority to accommodate commuters' needs. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 147
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:29 am: |
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I bet a lot of the commuter wait lists are full of W.Orange residents. The buses that bring W. Orange commuters to the SO train surely added to that problem. Realtors are selling W. Orange houses touting the relatively inexpensive homes (vs. SO/M) that are still close enough to commute to NYC via S.O. Train station. |
Parkingsux
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 87
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:43 am: |
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The dynamics of downtown parking will change once the projects are constructed. SOPAC will place sufficient demands on the parking requirements in the village, and as we know, Village Market is approved with insufficient customer parking as is the commercial retail development of Beifus. If NJ Transit intends to build a deck for commuters, they of course have that option. The village must now focus our efforts for a parking component to downtown business development. The idea of an on-demand jitney service and expansion of the commuter service throughout the village needs to be supported (duh). |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 370
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:50 am: |
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Jitney's still represent an excellent alternative to parking. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1179
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 10:31 am: |
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West Orange homes are not "relatively inexpensive" compared with South Orange/Maplewood. Most houses in South Orange and Maplewood are not walking distance to the train, just as all houses in West Orange are not walking distance to a train. Comparable homes in West Orange, South Orange and Maplewood have very similar prices. Look around.
And keep in mind that there are two New Jersey Transit stations in South Orange. And both are designed to serve riders who don't only live in South Ornage. You may want them all for yourselves, but the people who own the tracks don't see it that way.
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Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 466
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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Cmonty West Orange has a jitney service that has been up and running for years. W.O. take a bow! |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 166
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 11:16 pm: |
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Offical Number of Parking Spaces:
After reading Mr. Rosner's post on August 15 indicating: "We have more commuter parking that almost every town on the M & E line (I think only Summit has more)." I was interested in researching the actual numbers.
According to NJ Transit http://www.njtransit.com/rg_spr_station_lookup.shtml the following parking spaces are for public meter and permits for each station along the M&E Line from Newark Broad Street to Morristown.
(Bold are greater than South Orange Station)
South Orange: 513
Newark Broad Street: 0
East Orange: 52
Brick Church: 115
Orange: 175
Highland Avenue: 31
Mountain Station: 90
Maplewood: 558
Millburn: 548
Short Hills: 310
Summit: 915
Chatham: 410
Madison: 531
Convent Station: 525
Morristown: 447
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2216
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 8:37 am: |
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Red Alert: I apologize if I was wrong, but I think something seems wrong with those numbers. I had been given numbers a few years ago from NJ transit and they showed us at number three.
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Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 30
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 9:40 pm: |
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Red Alert: Since NJ Transit keeps statistics, and they are made public, do you know, or can you find out, where the 513 permit holders live? Jeff, if you are out there listening, is there any reason why the Parking Authority doesn't publish an annual report? Isn't there a charter mandate for it to do so? Besides the issue of who is parking here, what I would like to know is how much revenue the Parking Authority collects and how it is spent. Aren't the taxpayers entitled to know this? |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 7219
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 9:54 pm: |
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(Add Mountain Station and South Orange together for the correct SO tally: 603) |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 31
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 10:07 pm: |
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Question for anyone: Who owns the parking lot at Mountain Station? I thought that the Village owned it. Is it NJT? Which authority issues the permits? |
South Orange Maven
Citizen
Username: Somaven
Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 10:12 pm: |
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Thank you Dave for pointing out that Mark, as usual, was correct!.So nice to get information that is accurate and unbiased on this thread. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2225
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 1:35 am: |
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If we're going to add Mountain and South Orange together then we need to add Short Hills and Millburn.
Millburn: 548
Short Hills: 310 comes to 858 |
South Orange Maven
Citizen
Username: Somaven
Post Number: 34
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 6:25 am: |
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Quote: I had been given numbers a few years ago from NJ transit and they showed us at number three.
Summit - 915
Millburn/SH-858
S. Orange - 603 |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 8:32 am: |
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So, to clarify: South Orange has more commuter parking than MOST towns on the M&E line.
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Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1019
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 8:54 am: |
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Mark is right. We are number 3 on the list!  |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 168
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 9:19 am: |
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NJ Transit just tracks the number of spaces. This number is the sum of public (meter) parking and permits. I assume Town Hall keeps records of the owners of the permits. |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 169
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 9:21 am: |
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No matter how you count it, the issue still exists. Not enough parking for the masses. |
Neen
Citizen
Username: Neen
Post Number: 172
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 10:01 am: |
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My question is why the waiting list for parking spots has not moved. When I moved in two years ago I was put on the list and told that there was a 3.5 year wait. Thinking I was now past the halfway point on my wait, I called the parking authority to get and update and was told that from where I am now (number 400 and something) there is a 4.5 year wait, making my total wait time (if I am lucky) 6.5 years for a parking spot. That is just crazy! |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2394
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 10:15 am: |
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Neen: Are you serviced today with a jitney? If not, you should be! |
Neen
Citizen
Username: Neen
Post Number: 173
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 10:40 am: |
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No, unfortunately there is not jitney service to my part of town. (Maplewood border west of Walton.) |
jeep
Citizen
Username: Jeep
Post Number: 15
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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The town should raise the rates - then the list would shrink and there would be more revenue. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1244
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 2:11 pm: |
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Not sure there should somehow be an expectation that everyone gets a parking spot at the train station. There aren't enough spots. I knew that before I moved here, and I still moved here.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 1, 2005 - 4:33 pm: |
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Neen, Woodstock posted a while back that after living here for 5.5 years, he was finally number 10 (?) when they move out.
I think parking spots in SO are becoming what Rent Controlled apartments were in NYC... sold on the black market, or held in families for generations  |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 1, 2005 - 9:12 pm: |
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For what it's worth: I have never had trouble finding a $4 daily spot in the parking lot (without a permit), arriving by about 7:05 or 7:10 (to catch the 7:20-ish train). I don't do this every day, but have been doing it kind of often lately, for various reasons. I'm sure if I arrived much later it would be a different story.
Just tossing that out there for anyone who may be reading this thinking it's impossible to park. It may be impossible to park for free, and at the exact time you want to park. But it's not impossible to park. |
LibraryLady(ncjanow)
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 2677
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 1, 2005 - 9:33 pm: |
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Maybe because it was the end of August and a lot of folks are on vacation, but when I arrive at the Library parking lot at 8:15 a.m. or so, there are usually a few metered spots available as well. |
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