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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2119
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 1:29 pm: | 
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The crime figures in S. Orange for 2004 were down 12.4% from 2003. The numbers were lower pretty much across the board.
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 339
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 1:34 pm: |
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Mark, is anyone making a formal response to the apparent error? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2120
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 1:40 pm: |
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yes. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 340
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 2:11 pm: |
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Who, when and where will it be published? |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonhw
Post Number: 14
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 3, 2005 - 1:27 pm: |
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Mark, has anything been published as yet? |
Sonk
Citizen
Username: Sonk
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
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you all crack me up cause you swear that this town is the closest thing to a paradise. yall would rather focus on the rating your town got in a dang magazine than to address the concerns of the people living here in south orange and Maplewood and the surrounding towns (Newark, Irvington, union, orange, west orange, and east orange) it seems that we often forget that these are our neighbors and we value the opinions of these magazines more than the opinions of our neighbors, this alarms me because if you were to talk to our neighbors and ask them their opinion of south orange and Maplewood it would be very different than what you all would like to believe it is, always remember, your neighbor may know more about your nature than a distant friend and i tell you IM more concerned with how the citizens feel about south orange and the surrounding towns because they see everything that the magazines don't and you cant hide your actions from them. numbers and ratings of towns are pretty but reality is the only thing that matters in the end, and that's something that a magazine cant rate, the reality of these towns and the class struggles that we go through, the race issues that we neglect to address, the foolish spending habits that we have yet to check. the corrupt politics and BOE actions, and last but not least the fear that the urban culture of our neighbors will overtake these two towns and the measure we go to prevent it. rather than accept it and try to affect those towns in a positive way. this is a reality that south orange has in the eyes of the surrounding towns and some of its citizens, i am more concerned with this reality than the statistics in a magazine. i hope we do something to address these issues cause separating ourselves from our neighbors is not gonna help us it can only lead to our demise.
- w/ lot's of love SONKs |
Swearengen
Citizen
Username: Swearengen
Post Number: 14
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 3:49 pm: |
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Are my eyes deceiving me or has Howard Levison doppleganged himself?
Sonk, would it kill you to administer a line break or two in your pontification? |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 806
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 5:34 pm: |
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Sonk apparently got lost in Joyce some years back and couldn't get out. |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2201
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 8:20 pm: |
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Only if you see the nose blinking. 
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Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 58
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 9:55 pm: |
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and that my friends is the longest sentence in literature history ... |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 676
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 9:58 pm: |
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Did it really constitute a sentence?
4th Rule of Refugee - It's all in the presentation. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1370
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 4, 2005 - 11:35 pm: |
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Josh,
In InfoWorld a few weeks ago, there was a full page, two column opinion piece without a single period. A huge runon sentence. And it was a very intersting story. but tough to read with no real punctation. |
mantram
Citizen
Username: Mantram
Post Number: 149
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 5, 2005 - 1:39 pm: |
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Sonk -- I'm with you on the "foolish spending habits" and the geographical elitism that many in our towns are mired in. And while your post was very difficult to read, I am bothered by the fact that everyone chose to be grammar snobs and completely ignored the content of your post. |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2208
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 5, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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How should we feel about Irvington, Vailsburg, East Orange and Orange? Please, do tell. Sonk, do you mean to say that the BOE should open their arms to any student who wishes to attend our schools from the surrounding communities?
Quote:the race issues that we neglect to address, the foolish spending habits that we have yet to check. the corrupt politics and BOE actions, and last but not least the fear that the urban culture of our neighbors will overtake these two towns and the measure we go to prevent it. rather than accept it and try to affect those towns in a positive way. this is a reality that south orange has in the eyes of the surrounding towns and some of its citizens.
What are you talking about? Do we in South Orange/Maplewood have any say as to how to affect our neighboring towns in a positive way. And who the heck cares about the eyes of some surrounding towns with respect to our communities. Their issues are beyond our calling to address. It would please me if they kept their noses in their own local affairs and sought State assistance in dealing with their urbanization "issues" and keeping their neighborhoods safe from gangs and perpetrated crimes.
The writer appears to be saying something, I just haven't figured it out. 
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Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 5, 2005 - 2:30 pm: |
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Pizzaz, I didn't get it either.
OK, I'll bite, Sonk. What is the opinion of SO/M that is held by all the surrounding towns you highlight? You must know, since you state that it will be so different than what MOL posters would think.
What is the urban culture of our neighbors that we "fear"? I think possibly the biggest fear we have is gangs - but surely that can't qualify as "urban culture". |
Neen
Citizen
Username: Neen
Post Number: 159
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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Did anyone notice the totally irresponsible journalism on the front page of the News Record with the headline, Crime rising in South Orange and Declining in Maplewood. The rest of the article does not support this black and white headline, but still it was published. |
Montrose13
Citizen
Username: Montrose13
Post Number: 15
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
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This is old news...nr writers and editors do their best to bash South Orange whenever they can and they do a fine job of it. And if you are from South Orange don't hold your breath waiting for one of your letters to the editor to be published-ever. Like I said before, the South Orange advertisers should pull out or sit down with the publisher and voice their concerns. You would think that someone from Main Street might do so as well. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 60
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
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Hi Neen! See the thread entitled "The News Wretched" (get it, News-Record sounds like Wretched? I for one was all worked up over that headline and cancelled my subscription, with no refund for over 1 year left on the subscription.) |
Sonk
Citizen
Username: Sonk
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 2:04 pm: |
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sorry for the grammer, i didnt think you guys would make such a big deal over it. Wat i was getting at in my post was that it is very disturbing to find that we value the opinion of a magazine over the opinions of our community (surrounding towns). this was illustrated by pizzaz's statement..."And who the heck cares about the eyes of some surrounding towns with respect to our communities...It would please me if they kept their noses in their own local affairs...". Pizzaz, i am asking the same question about the magazine, who the heck cares about wat a magazine says about our town. if we wanna get a real opinion of our town from an outside source lets go to out neighboring communities. i am advocating the fair exchange on multiple levels between all our communities, only good can come of that, but constantly wat i detect from the residence of S.O. and M.W. is fear,hate, and the complete disregard for the people of the surrounding communities. If this is how we make the people of surrounding towns feel, how can we expect to claim tollerance and understanding. as for the corrupt actions of the town's gov'ts and BOE you can find out more about it by talking to people who border our community. If im sounding like i did in my previous post i apologize, just understand this, our priorites are all out of wack. we should never even take the statements of a magazine to heart because when has the author of these reports ever lived here, only our experience counts. If we want an outside opinion, forget a magazine, just look to your neighbor (the communities mentioned earlier), and if you dont like wat you find, the answer is to improve those relations cause it will only help us out in the end.this i can promise you.
once more w/ lots of Rlove- SONKs BK4L |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 8885
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Sonk, grammar and punctuation and spelling aren't just for show. Using standard forms is considerate, because it makes your text easier to read. The trouble you save by typing carelessly is lost many times by the people who try to read it, since it's multiplied several times.
I think you're getting off the point anyway. South Orange is a nice place to live or it isn't or the truth is varied and the truth is in the middle. The experience of living in South Orange is a separate matter from how South Oranginas treat people in other towns.
And you haven't substantiated how people in South Orange mistreat, neglect, abuse or whatever people in other towns. How are the fear and hate manifested? If it's merely that people in South Orange have more money, I don't see where we can go with that. |
bill671
Citizen
Username: Bill671
Post Number: 114
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 2:38 pm: |
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OK, I'll take the chance of earning a few flames here - but here it goes.....
I've a feeling that SOME of the residents of surrounding communities look quite favorably on South Orange and Maplewood. What great shopping - in the driveways, garages and homes that are so accomodating. Seems like the streets are paved with sets of xenon headlights just ripe for the picking! Heck, forget the headlights, let's just take the whole car!
The stores provide great shopping too, particularly while exercising the "five fingered discount". And what friendly people, walking on the streets, just waiting for someone to come by and relieve them of their purse, wallet, jacket, etc.
Reminder - the above statements are intended to satirically reflect the thoughts of only SOME of the residents of surrounding communities.
The point I'm trying to make is that surrounding communities have a substantially greater value as a detractor as compared to adding value to how a community is perceived. Case in point - do M/SO derive any particular benefit from being so closely located to Millburn / Short Hills or Livingston?
Second point is "Yes - a high value in a magazine such as this is quite important". It has a direct relation to the marketability of the local businesses, as well as the homes in the community. The better local businesses do, the better the local economy.
The better the magazine rating, the better the value of the housing stock. Obviously it means a higher price for sellers, and it could be argued that higher home prices would keep out a certain "element" (No I'm not going there - it's not germaine to the point I'm trying to make).
OK, but how do higher home values benefit someone who's not moving? Don't most of us have those credit card bills we've built up, or have other reasons for wanting to utilize some of the equity that's in our houses? Well, there's not a heck of a lot of equity in a house you've lived in for less than 5 years, unless home prices in your neighborhood have gone up in that time.
Just a couple of thoughts |
Hazel Jefferies
Citizen
Username: Hazel45
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
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Sonk- I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in you're opinion about SO and the people that live here. Unfortunately in all the years that I've lived here I haven't seen much change in the people or their attitudes. The fact that the first couple of responses to your post were about your use of grammar as opposed to very good and very valid issues that you brought up was appalling. I'm so glad that somebody has decided to address many of the things that you did in your posts. South Orange is really not all its cracked up to be. Some of the people here have this fantasy about how we should be rated the best in magazines and the best amongst all of our surrounding towns but the fact is we're not. This town looks very pretty on the outside, with our smiling faces and big beautiful houses but on the inside its rotting from all of the negativity that its community members harbor. It has been made more and more clear to me that behind those smiling faces are anger, hate, racism, prejudice, and fear. All in all the people here are not concerned with what our neighboring communities think because they are obviously, as bill671 plainly stated, more concerned with facts and figures. We as a community make that clear when we change the borders of our town to keep " a certain element" out or when we allow the BOE's actions to be continually proved corrupt and unjust. If your confused about what incidents I'm referring to ask around I'm sure some of your fellow community members will be happy to tell you. I for one do care what our neighbors think and i believe that if more of us did, SO would be alot better off.
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1380
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 12:32 am: |
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can someone explain these "corrupt and unjust actions" that the BOE is taking that negatively affect our neighboring towns? I thought our BOE only held sway over our own school system, which is not supposed to be attended by people from other towns.
what is the BOE doing that affects other towns?
BTW, not to pick nits, but Hazel, your use of paragraphs is vaguely reminiscent of Sonk's (South orange neighbor ...?). |
Hazel Jefferies
Citizen
Username: Hazel45
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 1:47 am: |
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Where in my post did I say that the BOE's action effected the surrounding towns??? Maybe if you read exactly what I wrote instead of taking it and twisting it into what you want it to be you would understand me and make some changes. As for the corrupt and unjust actions that I mentioned, like I said in my above post, ask you neighbors. Better yet ask the youth of SO. They can tell you a thing or two about what going on with the BOE. And as for my grammar, and I think Sonk will agree with me, Get Over It, seriously. |
Sonk
Citizen
Username: Sonk
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 2:37 am: |
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Peace Hazel, it brings joy to me to find that i am not the only one who has noticed these things, the last two issues you brought up in your first post was exactly wat i was thinking of when i spoke of the level of corrupt governing that goes on in this town, i know this girl who lives in orange now only because South orange changed the border, she was unable to complete her education at Columbia and was basically forced to go to Orange high, on the issue of the BOE where do i have to begin, Orlando and Stephanie are two names that spell out enough in that regard. You seem to be pretty well plugged into wats happening cause it truly is the youth who are well aware wats going on.
w/ nothing but love & peace- SONKs bq4l
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 349
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 4:32 am: |
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Okay... South Orange has it's fair share of
Quote:anger, hate, racism, prejudice, and fear
but it also has a large number of truly wonderful residents and volunteers and government employees/officials and business owners and students....
And OF COURSE the residents in South Orange should care what the magazine says for all the reasons bill671 pointed out and more importantly, the fact that it's wrong...
Who honestly wants someone from the "outside" writing things that may not be true?
AND ALSO - printing something that may not be accurate about our crime rate casts a negative light on our police department and their work...
I'm interested in what publications say about us but also what fellow residents have to say... the glass doesn't always have to be half empty. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1384
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 3:28 pm: |
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When did South Orange change our borders? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1385
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 3:52 pm: |
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Hazel, I don't want your post to say or mean anything other than what it does. I misunderstood what you were saying, since Sonk had been talking about how SO is viewed by, and affects its neighboring towns. I wrongly assumed you were continuing in that vein.
However in reading this thread, the only real negativity I see is from you and Sonk.
The reason that people are more concerned with the opinions of a magazine article than those of the neighboring town should be self-evident. A magazine article affects the way the towns are viewed by a very broad audience. A much larger audience than populate the surrounding towns. More importantly, the magazine is more influential in shaping other people's opinions than the residents of our neighboring towns are.
And let's be honest, we're not talking about Millburn or Short Hills. We're not even talking about West Orange. We're talking about Irvington, Orange, Newark and East Orange.
What the residents of any neighboring town thinks of South Orange is just not high on my list of concerns. Do you think they are worried about what we think of their towns? But a magazine article that can impact the value of the largest investment I'm likely to make in my life? You're damn right I care that they get the facts straight. And of course I want our town portrayed in the best possible light. Who wouldn't? |
Josh Holtz
Citizen
Username: Jholtz
Post Number: 66
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 4:12 pm: |
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Rastro - I know at one point Montrose Park extended a couple of blocks to the north side and was pulled back to its current borders - but I believe it was a long time ago. Maybe someone can confirm. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 84
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 4:14 pm: |
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Go Rastro! |
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