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Message |
    
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 79
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 1:39 pm: | 
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To any BOT member who might be reading this:
I would like to propose that every BOT meeting adopt as its regular modus operandi a format which includes the following:
1. Action to be taken
2. By whom
3. By when
And that each meeting include an update on the prior meeting's action items.
My observation of current BOT processes is that agreed upon actions are murky with no clear responsibilities assigned and dates, if given, are uncertain. For example, at the last meeting the CBAC presented some actions they wanted the board to take. As an observer, it was not clear to me what action if any the board agreed to, and who would do what by when. If the minutes of the meeting were to include action, responsibility and dates for completion, it would go a long way to improving exisitng processes. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 271
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 2:12 pm: |
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Very ideal JayJay but we'd be the first government to do that.
I'm against it because it's not practical. Big projects - OF COURSE. But think of how many requests are made from residents during that time. It's not reasonable to say here's John Gross's calendar and put deadlines on everything...
For example, with the CBAC proposal (you referenced) - Mr. Gross said he would draft a letter to SOPAC and get it out as soon as possible. The other proposals don't call for IMMEDIATE action (I don't believe) - it's more on a rolling basis (i.e. when the board considers pilots to involve the CBAC, etc)
I sat through the meeting and I understood everything.
Tennis people - speak with the Rec. Advisory Committee and/or the Rahway River Project Committee.
JG - draft letter to SOPAC on behalf of the Trustees
The proposal of "consideration on the future of tax abatements" - was simple - it was approved and the board agreed once the CBAC clarified what role they wanted to play...
At the last meeting, residents from Fairfield (correct?) talked about a speeding problem, the next day I saw a speed detector thing on their street.
So things happen in as much of a timely fashion as is possible.
I'm not sure where your confusion is.
The "tasks" section of what you are looking for would more than likely be more relevant in committee and not general meetings.
However, I would like to see minutes from committee meetings and I don't believe those are posted on the village website... (could be wrong).
But JayJay - that's just how I personally felt - I'm sure more people feel as you do, also  |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2098
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 2:35 pm: |
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Sheena: Well said.
(It was on fairview, but close).
We don't post the minutes from committee meetings (although we might do so at one point), but anyone can get them with a request to the village clerk.
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Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 337
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 3:06 pm: |
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Committee meeting minutes, Sheena? You must be joking!
mrosner: How about starting with timely posting of Board of Trustee meeting minutes. The last minutes posted on the Village web site are from May 9th -- over two months ago. (Since this happens to coincide with Beifus-Shovel-in-the-Dirt Day, residents conveniently can now count Board mintue delays and Beifus project delays at the same time.)
How does delaying public disclosure of Board minutes by 2+ months fit into the Village's new information policy?
http://www.southorange.org/minutes.asp
January
8 Special Meeting Budget Workshop PDF File (41 kb)
10 Conference Agenda PDF File (39 kb)
10 Special Meeting PDF File (25 kb)
10 Regular Meeting Continuation of 12/20/04 PDF File (11 kb)
24 Regular Meeting PDF File (35 kb)
February
14 Special Meeting PDF File (49 kb)
14 Conference Agenda PDF File (39 kb)
28 Regular Meeting PDF File (32 kb)
March
14 Special Meeting PDF File (35 kb)
14 Conference Agenda PDF File (25 kb)
21 Special Meeting PDF File (17 kb)
28 Regular Meeting PDF File (49 kb)
April
11 Conference Agenda PDF File (44 kb)
11 Special Meeting PDF File (40 kb)
18 Conference Agenda Continuation PDF File (27 kb)
25 Regular Meeting PDF File (40 kb)
May
9 Special Meeting PDF File (32 kb)
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jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 80
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 4:18 pm: |
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Sheena-
How do you know that we would be the first government to do that? Every meeting, every time, whether BOT or Committee meetings should resolve with Actions, Responsibility by name, and dates by when the action must occur. That is just good productive meeting management, whether its business or government.
For example, working from your post, you reference
"tennis people". Who exactly is that? None of the so-called tennis people at the meeting knew the person who was named a tennis representative to the project under discussion.
You say "JG - draft letter to SOPAC on behalf of the Trustees". Ok, by when and to whom on SOPAC, and what is the letter to request?
And I could go on. These principles are basic to insuring progress. They should be specific and published the day after the meeting. Do you want open, responsible and action-oriented government?
I do. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2100
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 4:37 pm: |
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Two Sense: I have posted this before, but so you can have the explanation again as to the 4 - 6 weeks before they are posted and available:
First, the village clerks office has to type up the minutes. Average four hour meeting can take six - eight hours to do - mostly because it is not always easy to hear the tapes when people don't talk clearly and into the microphone. They have minutes from other meetings too (planning board) plus the normal duties of the clerks office. The goal is to get them done before the next meeting that they would be voted on to be accepted by the BOT. In the case of the May 23rd meeting, we voted on them at the meeting last week and they are usually posted by Friday of the week we have the meeting.
The meetings are televised and shown several times. In the fall, we hope that you will be able to watch the meetings over the internet via the village website for those who do not have cable tv.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2101
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 4:40 pm: |
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By the way, I just went on the village website to check and the minutes from May 16th and May 23rd were posted. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 272
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 4:51 pm: |
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JayJay:
I'm all in favor of "responsible and action-oriented government" but what you detail is what I call "micro-managing".
If you can find one government anywhere in the U.S. that does what you outline - I would love to see it and I would concede to your logic.
It may not be much but being a government major, I've done a good deal of research on the topic that you started the thread on which is why I responded the way I did. I doubt you will find the level of "exacts" your looking for because priority of "day to day" operations changes depending on what comes up.
Like I said, with long term planning - I agree, but not with general BOT meetings. I'm very content with the way the meetings run (except that I would be more fond of Robert's Rules of Order).
I do think that meeting minutes should be posted a lot sooner (as 2 cents posted) and I think that it's imperative that committee meeting minutes get posted as well.
Like I said before, a lot of tasks and things that you're talking about happen in committee before they get to the entire board and I'm more than interested in seeing those (but that's just being the nerd that I am).
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 273
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 4:55 pm: |
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Trustee Rosner,
Have to disagree with you regarding the timeliness of meeting minutes being posted.
We have an Senate Secretary and our SGA meetings can last up to 4 hours plus. She types the entire time and the meeting minutes are out by that night (4-10 pages of them). We approve the meeting minutes by the next week and then they are made public.
You don't have to detail every bit of information for meeting minutes (that's why you have the tapes in case a discrepancy shows up). Minutes should be an "overview" of what happened at the meeting.
Just my humble opinion... |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 81
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 5:29 pm: |
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Sheena-
You are right about minutes being published sooner. The person taking the minutes should be at the meeting. I can't imagine anyone not at the meeting trying to make sense of what happened by listening to tapes. No wonder it takes so long to get them published.
YOu are not right, however, in saying that the BOT meetings do not have to include actions, responsibilities and dates. They are voted in to get things done, and only they can act on the important issues. You can not let them wallow. I don't know what your government courses are teaching, but the first thing they should teach is acceptance of responsibility and answering to their constituencies.
You definition of micro managing is also off base. Micromangaing is someone overseeing and controlling in minute detail, and not letting mamagers manager. That's not what this is about. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 82
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 5:45 pm: |
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BTW, if we, the taxpayers, are paying someone's salary for an eight hour day to type up minutes, that is absurd. One of the people at the meeting, could take the minutes as they occur with a PC. With actions, responsibilites and dates articulated in the meeting, it becomes a slam dunk. Maybe an hour's work afterward to clean them up, and that's it.
Do you think any business would stand for anything less? |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 341
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 6:32 pm: |
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mrosner, thanks for pointing out that the Village posted its May 16th and May 23rd minutes AFTER my 3:07pm post. If they're not transcribing and posting minutes, at least they're surfing MOL on company time. Prior to today's update, 8 weeks, 3 days elapsed since the May 16th meeting -- not 4-6 weeks, as you've repeated. Is there actually a service standard, which contributing Village employees strive to attain on a consistent basis?
If transcribing minutes have become an ordeal, why not outsource this to a transcription company. These firms simply listen to your meeting by phone or via your audio system, and have a draft of your minutes available within hours. Obviously, an eye witness would maintain a rough outline to ensure that each quote is properly attributed. With this approach, minutes easily could be approved and posted within TWO weeks. (Remote transcription has revolutionized medical dictation for patient charts; MD's simply dictate patient notes into their phone, and have accurate notes in hand the next morning.)
P.S. We're looking forward to webcasting of Village meetings. When in the Fall will this be available? |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 319
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 7:38 am: |
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We are all looking for greater transparency and minutes go a long way toward that objective. Just one point - you can see the CBAC minutes on < http://www.southorange.org/CBACMinutes.asp > . We have been trying to get other committee minutes re: Rent Leveling Board, Energy Policy Committee and Cable Committee and hope to have them available shortly.
But, I think it would be helpful if there were more detail to agenda items so that one may prepared/informed so that they may participate in the dialogue. For example does anyone know what the following item was about other than we plan on spending more tax dollars -
1. Bond Ordinance Providing for Capital Improvements in and by the Township of South Orange Village, in the County of Essex, New Jersey, Appropriating $3,500,000 Therefore and Authorizing the Issuance of $3,325,000 Bonds or Notes.
Was this known to the CBAC - NO!
If this was to authorize funds to purchase property and construction of parking facilities would anyone be interested in this discussion? |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2102
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 8:29 am: |
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The village clerk and her assitant are at the meeting. They do take notes. However, people talk at the same time, some people shout from the audience, etc. The minutes are an overview.
I find it pretty amazing that people criticize a village employee without going to village hall to meet with the person and to see the process and exactly what is involved. They cannot be passed till the BOT reviews them and votes on them. Some BOT members have other jobs and do not get to read them till the weekend.
Two Sense: I don't know if anyone was looking at MOL or not. As I have stated before the meeting minutes have always been posted the same week they are approved by the BOT.
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Stuart0628
Citizen
Username: Stuart0628
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 9:07 am: |
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FWIW, the volunteer board on which I sit *does* circulate a list of "action items" approved at prior meetings and their status. The list is circulated with the minutes of the last board meeting. Items stay on the list until action is complete or they become moot.
My board is full of people, like me, with good intentions and busy schedules. This is our way of holding our own feet to the fire.
Regarding timeliness of minutes: Our board secretary sits at his laptop and types up the minutes in real time, and he generally circulates a draft of the minutes the next day. I agree with Sheena and Jayjay that this is doable. Type the minutes in real time, watch the tape the next day to make sure you didn't miss anything, and send 'em to the BOT for review. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2103
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 9:12 am: |
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Since this discussion is turning into the performance of a village employee, I can no longer participate. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 83
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 9:31 am: |
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mr. rosner-
I think you're missing the point. This is not about an individual's performance. It is about THE PROCESS. And its about accountablility, timeliness and efficiency. |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 343
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
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The Board of Trustees is elected to govern our Village and pays a professional Village Administrator presumably to manage our Village based on the Board's objectives and directives.
Timely distribution of BoT minutes either are or are not a priority of the Board and its professional management. This is not about employee performance; it's about setting objectives for governing in an open and transparent manner, developing criteria and standards for achieving these objectives, and holding everyone involved accountable for the results.
This either isn't an objective of our Trustees, or they're unable to meet their own objectives.
Unfortunately, cryptic and incomplete agendas and delayed meeting minutes (sorry, 8.5 weeks is no where near a 4-6 week goal -- even in a community accustomed to delays measured in years) reveal little interest in moving towards greater openness and transparency in how our Trustees govern our Village.
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Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 83
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 10:47 am: |
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Two Sense for BOT! |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1285
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 1:07 pm: |
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Washashore is back! 
Mark, I have to agree with the gang on this one. It's not a question of one individual's perfomance. it is a matter of communication, something I think everyone agrees the town could use some improvement in.
if the noets are taken that night, and the minutes really are just an overview, then why does it take even 4-6 weeks to get them out? Icould see it taking a couple of days to get them to the BOT, then approval at the next meeting. But 4-6 weeks? |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2088
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 1:11 pm: |
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I think the hold up is in the review by the Village Attorney or Administrator prior to issuance to the BOT. But I could be mistaken, I don't know the process followed by the Village Clerk. |
washburn
Citizen
Username: Washburn
Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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sounds like it takes time to organize the minutes and get them posted. but 8 weeks is a bit much. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 101
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 9:39 pm: |
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Any resident who presents an issue before the BOT, should not leave the podium until they get answers as to:
-what action will be taken
-by whom
and
-by when.
And they should go to subsequent meetings to insure the responsible party performs as promised. Vague promises of action are inadequate with this board. Its time to hold hands to the fire.
Last night's example of the quarry and lack of proper monitoring of the developer was a good example of derilection of responsibility. |
strawbets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 2138
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:11 pm: |
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*YAWN*
boring |
noracoombs
Citizen
Username: Noracoombs
Post Number: 99
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:13 pm: |
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And while we're at it, is it too much to ask for the BOT meeting to start on time? The posted starting time last night was 8:00 p.m. The actual starting time was 8:25 p.m--25 minutes late--and, might I add, not a word of apology to the residents who had been sitting in the audience for 25 minutes.
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bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 2139
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:16 pm: |
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It is too much to ask. They're busy! Even trustees need to socialize and close deals. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 102
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:17 pm: |
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And while we're on last night's meeting, what was that discussion about a leaf collection company upping their fees by 50%? I thought leaf collection was done by the village, not an outside contractor. Does anyone know more about this? |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 2140
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:19 pm: |
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Tune in to your quarterly tax bill for more information, jayjay. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 136
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 8:09 pm: |
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Mr. DeVaris-
As you have recently returned, I would like to suggest that you read this thread. It would be great if you could get the BOT to think about how they run the meetings. |
Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 215
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 5:57 pm: |
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Jayjay,
Thank you for the suggestion. I have read the thread. I’ll touch upon the major issues discussed here and give you my thoughts.
Modus Operandi. The Village President, and in his absence an appointed Trustee, are responsible for the fashion that the BoT meetings are run. The Village Charter specifies that the Robert’s Rules of Order must govern the meetings; it is the Village President’s choice the extend to which he will adhere to these rules. I will follow your suggestion "to get the BOT to think about how they run the meetings."
Process. This is my understanding of the process: the BoT is a policy making group. Issues are presented to them by the public, the administration, and other external and internal sources. The Trustees will discuss openly the issues, they will consider the public’s input, and they will identify the need for an action, a direction to be taken, a policy. They will then ask the appropriate Trustee Committee, or the Village Administrator, or Clerk, or Attorney, Department Head, or Citizens Committee, to present to them the details of a plan of action that will implement this policy; this plan will identify the steps to be taken, who will be responsible for its implementation, and a completion schedule. The BoT will then review these recommendations and, if approved, assign them to the appropriate authority for implementation. That authority will report back to the BoT on the progress of the plan.
Major projects usually require more than one policy decision as they go along, at which time the BoT would be involved beyond an initial policy statement.
I have found that this process is pretty much followed by the BoT, with few exceptions when we get into micromanaging, but then someone notices it and we redress.
Minutes of Meetings. I believe that the minutes of the BoT Committees should be posted on our website asap. I am happy to know that this is in the works.
As for the timeliness of the BoT minutes, Mark Rosner gave above a very good picture of the process of the minutes’ approval and publication. I think that, until the BoT understand the importance of a timely communication of the minutes to the public and makes their publication a priority issue over other matters, the Village Clerk’s office is doing an excellent job in issuing them within the best time possible considering their workload.
I’ll make sure that the issue is considered when the BoT discusses “improved communications with the public”, an issue that Trustee Jennings and I presented to the BoT last June as one of primary importance.
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 364
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 7:36 pm: |
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I think the Trustees need a parliamentarian. Though the charter specifies the use of "Robert's Rules of Order", I can tell you from experience that it is NOT being followed the way it should... that's why meetings last so long and so many people speak at once and some people are allowed to speak for a record breaking 10 minutes (No offense Trustee Rosen).
It would be great if someone from the legal committee could take on the task of being familiar with Robert's Rules of Order.
I'm a procedure buff and meetings run soooooo efficienty when they are implemented properly. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 138
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 8:45 pm: |
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Mr. DeVaris-
Thank you for reading the thread and taking it to heart. The one thing I would ask is that each meeting include a status of the agreed upon actions from the last meeting. I have been before the board myself and have presented issues that they agreed required action. But then no action is taken and it falls into a black hole. No one likes to keep coming and re-making the same case over and over, particularly if actions are agreed to at the first presentation.
As an example, at a July meeting, someone went before the board and wanted some action taken as regards open yard burning. While I can't recall what the board agreed to do, it would be useful if they listed what had been done by whom since the last meeting, and keep it on the agenda until some final resolution of the issue. |
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