| Author |
Message |
    
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6919
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 3:09 pm: | 
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WAITER RANT SPEAKS
quote:Dear Dave:
Since I went to college in South Orange I'm well aware of how cheap people
in the SO/Maplewood area can be.
Thank you for your note. Here's my take on things.
First, I think the owner of Voro is a stand up guy who wants to protect his
waiters as well as his interests. He's not going to be able to hire good
wait staff if his place gets a "shitty tipper rep." However....
I think a mandatory 20% service charge is too high. The French Laundry adds
an 18% charge - and they're the FRENCH LAUNDRY!
Sadly getting stiffed on the tip is a part of being a waiter. I prefer to
exact my revenge by never giving them a reservation, slipping them hi-test
instead of decaf. I'm sure 90% of your customers are good people. I wonder
if it's wise to penalize them for the bad behavior of a few. (However, maybe
your bad tip situation is epidemic in scale I don't know.) Also I think
having the autograt only Thursday-Saturday is confusing. It should be all
week or not at all.
A wise waiter once told me there are customers you never want in your
restaurant. There are ways to insure customers never come back. Embarrassing
the •••• out of them, in a way that doesn't get the waiter in trouble,
usually does the trick.
I would tell the owner to confront people who leave pennies and tell them
never to come back. Don't worry about them telling their friends. If they're
anything like them you don't want them either!
Good luck Voro. Do you hire a lot of Seton Hall students!
Hazard Zet Forward baby!
Is that too cool, or what? Waiter Rant has local connections. |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2129
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 3:25 pm: |
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That is way, way cool..... |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 772
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 3:35 pm: |
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Waiter Rant is right on the money- the stiffs are off-set by the overtippers and the people whose meal took forever but who realized that the server was not to blame. Waiting and bartending are hard jobs, but nobody can guarantee an azzhole-free workilfe. |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 654
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 4:23 pm: |
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Madden 11, if you don't tip, you are saying, quite directly, that the server didn't earn his/her pay.
That may be your perception, but I doubt it's a widespread one. The customer doesn't control what the server is paid, and there's a difference between earning your pay and earning a tip. I earn my pay every day, but I have yet to receive a tip, even for going above and beyond. I would imagine that some people tip for outstanding service only, which is how tipping was supposed to work in the first place.
Any language that I've ever seen on menus or checks as regards tipping is that it is customary, appreciated, even recommended. That's not the same as required. I think the more common view is that a tip is a courtesy, but I think we all know that you can't legislate courtesy.
I honestly can't think of a single time when I didn't tip at least 15%, even for rotten service, so I can't guess what people are thinking when they undertip or don't tip at all. My point is, it's every person's choice. People choose to be a-holes every day, and not just in restaurants. That's the way of the world.
They are paid "restaurant minimum wage" which is well below the very low regular minimum wage.
And is it law that they must be paid no higher than this extra low wage? Or is that a decision that the owners make? The system is unfair, I agree. But if an owner wants to do right by his employees, as David of Voro admirably seems to want to, why not a) pay them above the sub-minimum wage or b) supplement their nightly tip deficit out of pocket? Why not hide the tip in the cost of the entree, rather than rely on the hope that everyone who comes into your restaurant will interpret this custom the same way you do?
I can't help but be reminded of the immortal scene from the opening of Reservoir Dogs...too dirty to reprint here, too heartless to implement in real life, but, on principle, accurate in a lot of ways. |
Nonymous Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 8417
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 4:35 pm: |
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Madden 11, yes the system is unfair. The reason restaurants don't charge enough to pay their employees is that it's hard to break a tradition. If you're the first to do it, your prices will be falsely perceived as higher than others' prices. So we're stuck. Unless David and others start a trend to use the French system and it takes off.
Glad to know you normally tip 15%. In a way, you are acknowledging that you are paying the server and that the restaurant is not. That is the current system. And be glad you and I don't earn our livings from tips. But that doesn't mean a server doesn't deserve a tip. The fact that there is no legal obligation to tip doesn't diminish the necessity. The system is messed up, but failing to tip -- which I understand you don't -- is no way to change the system.
It's a shame, because as the name implies, a tip sounds like a little extra. And it is a total myth that it stands for "to insure promptness." Not only is that false, it's bad spelling.
Tom Reingold
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John Ace
Citizen
Username: Johnnyace
Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 4:56 pm: |
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As the guy outside with the Porsche, let me just say that they were real, and they were fabulous. |
John Ace
Citizen
Username: Johnnyace
Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 5:03 pm: |
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I don't have any problem with David's policy. It sounds well thought out and he seems to have taken pains to clearly state it in the restaurant.
The market will dictate if this is a good policy or not.
BTW ... We'll be over at Voro for dinner Wednesday. See you then. |
David
Citizen
Username: Dbk
Post Number: 21
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 10:30 pm: |
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Thank you again for the constructive feedback. A special thanks to those of you who took the time to reach out to me by phone and in person to discuss this matter. The conversations yielded a different solution. As I noted earlier, the primary problem was not poor tipping - that was a symptom of a more serious issue - and those of you who spoke with me now have a deeper appreciation for what I was facing as a business owner who wants to guard his investment and a boss who wants to protect his employees.
We have made the decision that there will be no mandatory service charge, no automatic gratuity, no tips included in inflated pricing, and, for the time being, no door charge. We will, however, require reservations on Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings - for the bar and lounge areas as well as the dining room. Walk-ins will not be permitted unless individuals are on a running guest list of regular customers. We need to know who is in our establishment. Giving a name and phone number creates accountability and maintaining a reservation sheet and guest list will help with crowd control, which has been a serious issue of late. An additional door man will be added and, as a trial run for this Thursday, two uniformed police officers will be posted at the entrance to the building.
As an aside, my bookkeeper reviewed all of the tabs for this past Friday and Saturday evenings and did not see any instances of double-tipping. If she is mistaken, please bring this to my attention and I will be happy to refund the service charge.
I appreciate the community's willingness to work with me on this.
Thanks,
David
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 839
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 10:41 pm: |
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Interesting solution. Since we rarely plan our dinners out in advance, we may not be weekend clients for a while, but wish you luck with this strategy. Sounds like you are confronting some tricky tradeoffs.
Here is hoping that your business remains strong once this fine-tuning of the clientele passes!
Looking forward to our next visit. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6935
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 10:42 pm: |
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MOL Face to Face at Voro's! (generous tippers only) |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 1811
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 10:49 pm: |
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Dave-
Can I ask why
"two uniformed police officers will be posted at the entrance to the building."
I think that might scare people off. Will you really turn people without reservations away? How will this 'guest list' be created? If someone like my mom, who doesn't read MOL, were to show up one Thursday night not knowing reservations were need be told to leave?
Can we call and ask for our name to be put on your guest list in case five weeks from now we decide at the last minute to go for dinner?
I think you're an example of a businessman willing to work with the community, while also looking out for the people he employees, I hope you do well, you deserve to... |
Stuart0628
Citizen
Username: Stuart0628
Post Number: 74
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 11:29 pm: |
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Interesting solution. Since we rarely plan our dinners out in advance, we may not be weekend clients for a while, but wish you luck with this strategy. Sounds like you are confronting some tricky tradeoffs.
Here is hoping that your business remains strong once this fine-tuning of the clientele passes!
Looking forward to our next visit.
The solution for short notice is to call a few minutes ahead. Sure you might get shut out, but if there is space, then they can take your name and # and voila, you are on the reservation list. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 2073
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 11:40 pm: |
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quote:MOL Face to Face at Voro's! (generous tippers only)
Name the evening; I'm there. |
las
Citizen
Username: Las
Post Number: 239
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:18 am: |
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Bets, may I sit next to you?
What I don't understand is how people can have so much to say about tipping. Just tip well - you're not going to go broke doing it. |
Nonymous Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 8420
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 7:21 am: |
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las, some of us are just opinionated and overly analytical. MOL is our outlet.
Good solution, David. Good luck with it. I've been turned away for lack of reservations. It's disappointing, but it's OK.
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sullymw
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 729
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 8:21 am: |
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David, hopefully your solution will work. Good luck. Kudos to you for reaching out for advice. Maybe we should change the name of this thread? |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1109
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 9:02 am: |
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I don't really know how to make a reservation for a bar... I've never done that before. Does it guarantee me a seat, or just some standing room?
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Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 99
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 9:10 am: |
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What time is the face to face at VORO and can we try to be curteous to some of the posters and business people who do post on MOL. David and John it has gotten mean spirited I hope this trend ends. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 2076
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 9:47 am: |
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I agree Lucy! And las, of course! Will I still see you on Friday? |
marinab
Citizen
Username: Marinab
Post Number: 222
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:00 am: |
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I agree, David. I hope this works for you. I was voting for the 15% charge (20% seems way too high) and to do mandatory when sitting at the bar seemed a little strange. But you seem to have come up with a solution at least for now. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 773
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 3:10 pm: |
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SO Refugee- You were apparently right on target regarding an "Elephant in the room". My neighbors were at Voro over the weekend and said that the patio area was absolute bedlam. An "after theater" crowd from Newark took over the place, they abused the staff verbally and physically and ended up leaving several bills unpaid.
Given the circumstances, I understand David's actions and commend him on trying to explain without causing a major stir. Things were evidently more serious than intially reported.
David- Here's hoping that these miscreants find another door to darken. Bad crowds come in all varieties and from all corners- nobody in SO/M will blame you for deterring them from returning.
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 1822
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 7:52 pm: |
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OMG Brett!
Thank you for explaining what happened! I can just imagine what would have happened if Dave had posted this information himself! He would have gotten all kinds of flack. It's much different coming from a MOL regular, such as yourself.
Now I understand why Dave is considering having uniformed police officers at the door.
Here's another suggestion for Dave. Install a video security system. Have cameras at the enterance and on the patio. This way people will be less likely to act like jerks... |
Quint
Citizen
Username: Shark_killer
Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:56 pm: |
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I guess rap stars, gangsta's, bloods and crips don't tip! man, thats some "after theater" crowd  somehow I don't think they will take to the cops being out front and your problems will be over. except for the cheap bastards who don't tip 20 % who live in town  |
Two Sense
Citizen
Username: Twosense
Post Number: 361
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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David, as an entertainment lawyer, I wonder if you possibly may have invited some of the difficulties you're now trying eradicate? Or, maybe some of your investors, client, or friends spread the word too far, too wide, too quickly; otherwise, how else would such a small, out-of-the-way, new restaurant draw such an unruly crowd (stiffing waitresses, verbal/physical abuse, police out front, bouncers, bedlam on the patio) so quickly?
And, we were so looking forward to enjoying a relaxing Mediterranean meal with a decent chianti in my own "backyard". Promise us you won't be adding a red velvet rope out front.
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noracoombs
Citizen
Username: Noracoombs
Post Number: 95
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 1:47 pm: |
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Two Sense: How in the world does successful word-of-mouth "invite difficulties"? Is David supposed to hope that people DON'T spread the word about his restaurant? That kind of attitude is a little too close to blaming the victim, IMO.
For the record, I ate at Voro last night. By 8:30, every table was full (on a Wednesday night!) and there were a good number of people in the lounge and upstairs, and everyone was on their best behavior. (My only complaint was that with so many people it was a bit noisy in the dining room.) We chatted with David for a while, and he's a really nice guy who's working incredibly hard to serve our community.
Please don't discount enjoying your meal and chianti without at least stopping by and seeing what the restaurant is all about. |
Kristen Williamson
Citizen
Username: Kris219
Post Number: 55
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 1:59 pm: |
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I really want to try Voro out now, I have heard such great things. I'm telling my boyfriend to take me there for dinner one night...and if he doesn't, well...hmm... I will have to make Sheena take me! (just kidding ) |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 286
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:27 pm: |
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Kris,
It's a date! But remember this is a classy place... keep your elbows off the table and no impersonations (just kidding hehe ) |
Kristen Williamson
Citizen
Username: Kris219
Post Number: 57
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:30 pm: |
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Uh Sheena...
I said you were my back-up. Don't get ahead of yourself just yet. I'll call you if my date cancels...
PS. You KNOW that my impersonations are dead on! |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2149
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:35 pm: |
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Let the record show that Two Sense levied an unbelievable smear against David, the proprietor of Voro. Two Sense in his capacity as serving on committees within the Village has impugned his reputation forever...
Isn't that right, Mr.N.!!!!
PS: His post and my rebuttal were summarily deleted by the Great One. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2112
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:50 pm: |
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Pizzaz: And I fail to see how you have helped your reputation by trying to out someone and calling them a creep (assuming that is what you consider a rebuttal).
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Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:50 pm: |
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I’m not sure how much of a smear it was. He did point out and article and highlighted a somewhat damaging paragraph. Drawing a hazy connection with Voro.
But I don’t think that two wrongs make a right here, and threatening Mr N is probably not even worth it.
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 288
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:55 pm: |
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Good point Mr. B, maybe Mr. N was wrong and Mr. P didn't make it right and Mr. M made a good point as well. Hopefully Moderator D will keep everything in line so Mr. and Mrs. A-Z will continue to post on MOL.
Miss S |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
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Well fine, why did he delete his post? Is it because when he originally posted he had no sense at all?
Or was it that he saw my post? His post was way too long and took too much time for one to promptly delete. (and yes, I stand behind my posting concerning Two Sense). |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 6964
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
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Ms. SC makes a good point regarding this. I ask everyone to mind the unofficial MOLtiquette of not outing people online, especially Tom Reingold. Thanks A-Z. |
vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 444
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 3:24 pm: |
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You mean Nonymous Reingold is actually Tom Reingold????? No!
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Nonymous Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 8464
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 3:54 pm: |
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I call myself Nonymous because everyone knows my name!
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AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 626
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 3:57 pm: |
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Don't forget Dave, you promised that you're only looking out for #1 now. So only delete your own posts from now on. |
vor
Citizen
Username: Vor
Post Number: 445
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 4:02 pm: |
|
oh |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 2152
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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Alleygater: I'm telling ya, I think between the water in town and the full moon cycle, some people are nuts!  |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 628
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 6:07 pm: |
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Pizzaz, I'm not the one complaining about your toilets, so give ma break wouldja!?! |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 1847
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:41 am: |
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Pizzaz-
You're finally figuring out some people are nuts? It's not the water or full moon, it's the dang heat!  ) |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 147
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 8:11 am: |
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I never heard of this problem happening in Millburn, Caldwell, Springfield, Florham Park or Chatham.
And we wonder why we have so many vacancies in town.
Do Toro Loco, South Orange Grill, Bunnies, and Reservoir have similar problems? |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 869
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 9:30 am: |
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Red alert -- Maybe you just don't have access to the gossip line for those other towns! |
red_alert
Citizen
Username: Red_alert
Post Number: 149
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 9:15 am: |
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That is true Susan. I don't have the gossip line like I do here. But I know that my bill does have the tip already included.
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Cubeless
Citizen
Username: Cubey
Post Number: 195
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 1:03 pm: |
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Did anyone try the new reservation or guest list policy this past weekend? |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 7096
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 11:22 pm: |
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Perhaps Voro is ahead of its time if Per Se is doing the auto tip?
From Amuse Bouche
Quote:
You’re about to see a flurry of backnforthing about some apparent new service changes at Thomas Keller’s Per Se.
Page Six reports that Keller is standardizing tipping, with a flat 20-percent charge added to diners’ rather hefty tabs. The net will be whacked up among the various staff contingents. Not clear why Keller (or more likely, his wife and service guru Laura Cunningham) opted for this, though the general bitchiness about tipping in the top floor of New York restaurants, and the likely mix of high-rolling overtippers and one-time-visit cheap-••• undertippers probably contributed. (You’d think the two would cancel each other out, no?) Further confusing the picture, according to P6: “Most of the service staff are planning on quitting at the end of this month when the salary changes happen.” Now, is that because they’re tired of the tip structure, or tired of the endless Keller-quest for perfection, or just plain tired?
Worth noting that Alice Waters has long had a similar policy (17 percent, I believe) at Chez Panisse, so this is somewhat less earth-shattering than might be believed. And it may simply be that Keller has planted his flag against the arbitrary whims of the bizarre, generally [very bad word, past tense]-up American system of gratuities — though if that’s the case, planting one’s flag at 20 percent isn’t exactly striking a blow against the bizarre quirks of service economics.
In any case, sit back and watch the navel-gazing fray.
Page 6 story
http://www.nypost.com/gossip/26750.htm |
Richard
Citizen
Username: Rikky
Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 12:55 am: |
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Great, my wife was all jazzed up to go to Per Se. No way I'm paying a 20% mandatory tip. Just against my principle! |
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