| Author | Message | ||
     Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 293 Registered: 4-2005  |
Dr. Rosen mentioned at the last BOT meeting that Sloan Street was not the appropriate place for this sculpture (see below) and I wholeheartedly agree with him.  He suggested in front of the Art Center which is appropriate considering the modern architecture of the building. This sculpture will measure approximately 20ft x 25ft, how do you think it will look next to our historic fire house? Also, this is not an original piece and will cost $250,000 just to build the sculpture and doesn’t include moving the gazebo or fountain. Open discussion - but I imagine more people will be a little more disturbed once they see this. I’m not against it; I would just suggest a different location as Dr. Rosen said at the last meeting. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 644 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'm a bit confused why anyone would spend a quarter of million dollars on a reproduction. Why not commission an artist (possibly local???) to create something new? I just can't get my head around this one at all. I think I need more info or something. Sounds like your only telling half the story. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6976 Registered: 4-1997  |
What's the title of the piece? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 294 Registered: 4-2005 |
Here you go Dave: http://www.artnet.com/artwork/424045242/tony-smith-tau.html | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6977 Registered: 4-1997 |
Can we opt for this one?  | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 65 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hmm, I understand the call for piece of art, but not at that size, cost, or style. That doesn't match the 'ambiance' of this town, and is quite akward looking, and a waste of $$. Alley- I agree we should find someone local, maybe enter some sketches into a contest or something to promote the artists of our community. Maybe we should find something that's a little more athetically pleasing. Something where you can say, "Now THAT'S ART!" instead of, why do we need a big block of bronze?? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6978 Registered: 4-1997 |
To see Tau in real life, visit 68th and Lex. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 854 Registered: 3-2002 |
AlleyGator, I think the answers to your question are: 1. Because Tony Smith was perhaps the most important sculptor to live and work long-term in South Orange, and the town has none of his works. 2. Not sure if it applies here, but I believe in the world of large cast sculpture, a certain number of copies are allowed and considered as originals, rather than reproductions (for example, at Stanford in the 1980s, the Art Museum acquired an original copy of Rodin's Gates of Hell, newly forged, as one of the single-digit number of castings that will ever be allowed). Kind of like limited edition prints, but on a much larger scale. Having said that, I think the questions about site selection are good ones, but am not sure there would be room at SOPAC, unless we removed the giant paper spike/sundial. Also, not sure that I would be perturbed by the proximity of history and modernity. | ||
| srg227 Citizen Username: Srg227 Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2004 |
Arguing over the aesthetic quality of a piece of art is an exercise in futility. Ever heard of 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'? You can argue about an acceptable price tag, or whether to commission a local artist, but trying to find a piece of art that everyone can agree on is pointless. | ||
| kathy Citizen Username: Kathy Post Number: 1154 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am not the expert on this one, but I do know the following: Tony Smith is a well-known artist who spent most of his life, and did most of his work, in South Orange. A fund-raising campaign was run a few years ago to provide the money for a Tony Smith sculpture in South Orange. The "original" vs. "reproduction" dichotomy does not really apply in this case. A Tony Smith sculpture is a concept and for each one, a certain number of replications are licensed to be built. (As a cast bronze sculpture might be cast a number of times from the same mold--all would be "original".) This piece was explicitly chosen for the site by the train station where the fountain and gazebo currently stand. I'm sure that somebody more closely associated with this project could explain it all better. | ||
| mary brenner Citizen Username: Marybrenner Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2005 |
first things first. Why are we even thinking of removing the gazebo which fits nicely with its surroundings? We would also have to remove the fountain? Why are we spending $250,000 on this? I am really confused here. Trustee Rosner, Trustee Rosen why are we doing this? Has the government of this town gone nuts? | ||
| kathy Citizen Username: Kathy Post Number: 1155 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is not a government project, but one for which the funds were privately raised. All of this was done a couple of years ago (or more?). It was all done very publicly. (P.S. Dave, does this thread set a record for most nearly-simultaneous posts?) | ||
| Kristen Williamson Citizen Username: Kris219 Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2005 |
I know art is subjective, I am not new to the world... but I believe art should be impressive. You should be able to say that the creator had a great creative mind. Personally, I am not feeling that from a block of bronze, but that's just how I view art. I suggested finding something that matched the town and it's style, rather then something that stood out like a sore thumb, where someone would ask about the point of a big block of expensive bronze. I believe finding a piece of art that most of the town would agree on, wouldn't be that hard. There is a point to it: to make the town that much more beautiful and worldy. A contemporary style in this town is just akward, that's all. The town seems to strive to keep its 'style' so I just don't understand breaking the trend now. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 648 Registered: 10-2004 |
Susan, thanks for the info. The fact that it is a piece by Tony Smith and his connection to this town was sorta the missing information from the original post. I saw a bunch of his pieces in Washington in the public sculpture gardens. Is Tony Smith alive? If so, why not contact him (or his estate) and see if he would either DONATE or offer a piece at a MUCH discounted price to the town. I can think of very few reasons why he wouldn't want to do so. If there is a budget of a quarter of a million, use the surplus money to pay for other local artists to create things. Personally, I like modernity interspersed into our lives. I love walking through an environment and being SHOCKED at the what seems out of place. It makes me think about art, location, intent, history, purpose and much more. If someone notices art, even when they HATE it, I think it's a good thing. Most people don't even stop for a moment to notice things on an aesthetic level or to question what is art or what they like and why they like it. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1209 Registered: 3-2003 |
The amount I previously heard that the Village was going to pay as its share was $50,000. Is this correct? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6979 Registered: 4-1997 |
‘I see my pieces as aggressors in hostile territory,’ Smith said. ‘I think of them as seeds or germs that could spread growth or disease… All my sculptures are on the edge of dreams.’ …especially in South Orange. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 649 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kristen we do not get to choose where Tony Smith worked and lived. Nor do we get to choose where Washington Slept, or where Graceland is. Even if you don't like Rock music, Elvis is important, and it isn't surprising that the people there want to celebrate that fact. Just as SO wants to do here. If you think that is unimportant then you should fight to have the piece not displayed. But I got to tell you, my in-laws live in South Plainfield, NJ where they just put up a monstrously huge Howitzer and an Assault vehicle in their park. That is what their town thinks is beautiful and important. If I were you, I wouldn't complain about the relatively inoccuous minimalist sculpture I PROMISE YOU the options can be MUCH MUCH WORSE. | ||
| aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 339 Registered: 8-2001 |
That is not art. It is construction. peeeeeee yewwwwwwwwwwwww | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 755 Registered: 5-2003 |
I cannot believe that this town is going to spend money that is so badly needed elsewhere on a "concept" by an artist who "used to live here." There are numerous artists who are presently living here; are we supposed to buy something from each of them, too? From previous discussions it is my understanding that Smith's family wants to have a piece of his work displayed in South Orange. If this is so, let them donate it to the town. If the town treasury has $250,000 lying around and nothing upon which to spend it, maybe we taxpayers are due for a refund. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1210 Registered: 3-2003 |
Can someone please answer? Is the amount that the Village has to raise through taxes $50,000 or $250,000? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 260 Registered: 10-2004 |
I second Lizziecat. A cast iron chunk of metal is certainly ugly. Maybe we can put it in the hole that Beifus has for filler. $250,000? If indeed the funds are all privately raised then I have no problem here. There are just more appropriate places for that sculpture then Sloan St. I think maybe across from Town Hall would be more appropriate. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6980 Registered: 4-1997 |
Kathy noted above that private funds are involved. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 82 Registered: 2-2003 |
http://www.the-artists.org/ArtistView.cfm?id=A0C8D06C-9506-47F1-AA1FC1757FE13F81 According to this source, Tony Smith was born in 1912 and died in 1980. (Other sources I googled on say 1981, but either way he is quite deceased.) Lizziecat and Mary Brenner, previous posts have indicated that the bulk of the money to create this sculpture is being provided through private donations. We are not on the hook for $250,000. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1211 Registered: 3-2003 |
Dave - I noted Kathy's comments. I'm just trying to verify that the amount raised from taxes is $50,000. I'm assuming that the remainder or $200,000 was raised privately. Is this correct? | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 83 Registered: 2-2003 |
As for the sculpture itself, I have no problem erecting it in town. Maybe even where the gazebo is, but other options should be explored. If the Village's cost share really is $50,000, that represents about $3 per head. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1212 Registered: 3-2003 |
Stuart - It was the $250,000 that was mentioned that threw me. Subsequent posts have confirmed (I think) that the taxpayers will be responsible for $50,000. | ||
| Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 759 Registered: 5-2003 |
Why do we need that sculpture? Can someone give me one single good reason as to why we need it in our town? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 295 Registered: 4-2005 |
From my understanding (and the Trustees can correct me if I'm wrong) - Private funds are not paying for this - there was a fundraising effort but to the best of my knowledge - it wasn't more than $30,000 for this $250,000 project. Tony Smith has passed away. His widow donated the "design" and now it's up to the village to build. Anyone can feel free to correct me but I'm sure my information is accurate. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 652 Registered: 10-2004 |
To piss people off. Is it working? That's what art is all about (...well good art at least). | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1213 Registered: 3-2003 |
HOW MUCH IS IT GOING TO COST THE SOUTH ORANGE TAXPAYERS!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 296 Registered: 4-2005 |
anything that is not fundraised will be picked up by the taxpayers | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1214 Registered: 3-2003 |
Trustees Rosner and Rosen - Did you approve this? | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2115 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have not seen a final accounting of what the potential cost will be. $50,000 is on the low side. From what I have seen/heard, the total cost is $400,000 of which they hope to raise most of the money from grants and private donations. As for the site location, a few were considered and this one was suggested by some volunteers (some of whom are artists). It is also the first choice of the village president. There were two problems with the site where the giant sundial (Susan- I like that name for it). First, we would need NJ Transit's approval. Second it would block the view of cars driving around the circle and could be a safety hazzard. I am not sure that putting it where the Gazebo is the best choice. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1215 Registered: 3-2003 |
How can you have approved something when you don't know what the financial impact will be to the taxpayers? It seems that it's a done deal. I'm surprised at you Mark. | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 326 Registered: 1-2004  |
I was under the impression that the $250,000 annual Community Block grants approved for SOPAC could not be used because of delays was reallocated to this project. | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1216 Registered: 3-2003 |
Sheena says $30,000 has been raised. Stuart says the taxpayers will be responsible for $50,000 or $3 per head. Mark says the total cost will be $400,000, most of which wil be raised by grants and private donations. The fact of the matter is that it appears no one can say what the cost will be to the taxpayers, and we've given the go ahead. You MOLers out there - DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE REVALUATION. IT'S NOT THE REVALUATION - IT'S THE TAXES. | ||
| mary brenner Citizen Username: Marybrenner Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2005 |
the design was donated??????????? it looks like the cap i have on my chimney to keep the rodents out. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 1320 Registered: 5-2004  |
Wasn't this a "gift" to the town? Or was that just the "license" part of it? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 6981 Registered: 4-1997 |
Estimate of scale.  | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 2116 Registered: 4-2002 |
Spitz: It is not a done deal and won't be till the BOT gets a full accounting (which we don't have yet). You are right - no one can say what the cost will be at this point. If enough money is raised, it will probably happen. I have not voted to give final approval - at this point we voted to agree to accepting the gift assuming we can raise the money and agree upon a location. |
