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Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1244
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 5:46 pm: | 
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I'll offer something. It may not be acceptable, but maybe worth a shot.
Let's assume that the DMRC was agreed to before the election for political reasons. Some who voted for a DMRC were already thinking ahead that if it came to it, it could be shot down on the funding issue, by suggesting a SID.
Here we are. If the BOT can be taken at its word, the only thing holding it up is the financing. Is it possible and feasibile to call them on it.
Bear in mind that a SID is a partnership. The SID sets the assessment. Suggest that there be a sliding scale over say three years at which time the full SID assessment will be paid.
You can play around with something along these lines. It dosn't have to be an all or none deal.
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growler
Citizen
Username: Growler
Post Number: 727
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 5:50 pm: |
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Someone recently wrote:The "not at this time" portion of the recommendation meant at a time when re-development was so non-existent that major portions of downtown looked liked a blighted area. The empty store fronts (shop-rite) and holes in the ground (Beifus and Rug Store site) have not gone away. It is very difficult to get property owners and business owners to pay into a SID and envision what if any benefits would come of it when those major parcels remain the way they are.
All due respects Patrick, this is when the SID should have been implemented. Maybe more would have been done by now. And those property owners should be flogged in the middle of town for their neglect! 
Someone recently wrote:A "vision" of how the business district could look where it intersects with the river was presented to the BOT by the River Walk committee.
How did the River Walk committee come up with this? As a resident for the past 6 years, I have never been asked what my ideas are for our downtown are. Anyone else asked?
Someone recently wrote:The time will be right when the landscape and climate change.
Agreed. So the real question is how to change the climate sooner rather than later. Who should be held accountable for prior actions? And should those individual(s) be allowed to continue?
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Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 1904
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 10:19 pm: |
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park-
Did you know a 'Glock 17' is a type of gun? |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 322
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 11:14 pm: |
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Patrick, I appreciate you taking time to post and I have always been a big fan of yours, so I suppose we need to agree to disagree on this subject and that is fine.
In regards to your SHU comment - you'll have to ask others students b/c I've drafted proposals for what you stated and I fully support it and have advocated for some form of monetary donation as well as more open resources to residents. We can agree on that (but I'm not sure if that was a jab at me to prove a point).
Re: Your comment "Closed Session discussions are ocurring right now regarding a parking deck, probably the most important piece in the redevelopment puzzle, and the public is told that details cannot be disclosed."
Question - Now that your term has ended as a trustee, do you still feel that there were/are negotiations that should be open to the public that aren't? Did you bring this up when negotiations were happening when you were on the board?
If that's the case, I think we have a huge problem at hand. We have been told by ALL of the trustees that these issues would present a "legal issue" if disclosed. Do you disagree? |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 12:20 am: |
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To those of you who are so eager to impose a SID on unwilling commercial property owners, I ask you this: 1) Have you checked to see how much taxes they already pay? 2) Why aren't you looking at the Parking Authority with the same scrutiny? Do you have any idea how much money goes through the PA that is never accounted for to the public?
You have with the PA a large cash cow that doesn't produce ice cream, and you think yet another "agency" is the answer? Like I said before, finish the redevelopment projects and show me the result. Maybe then we can talk about SID. |
growler
Citizen
Username: Growler
Post Number: 729
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 11:02 am: |
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But WHY are the property owner unwilling to have a SID? If the SID was proposed properly then maybe they would see things differently.
Someone recently wrote:2) Why aren't you looking at the Parking Authority with the same scrutiny? Do you have any idea how much money goes through the PA that is never accounted for to the public?
Because we are not talking about the PA. We are talking about a SID. However this is another area that should be looked into if what you are saying is correct. Do you have any numbers to back this statement up with?
Someone recently wrote:ou have with the PA a large cash cow that doesn't produce ice cream
This I can honestly say we both agree on. 
Someone recently wrote:finish the redevelopment projects and show me the result.
If they ever get finished. Personally I do not want to wait another 4-8 years for projects to get completed. I would rather see small improvements that help the downtown.
As Sheena said, I think we need to agree to disagree however I will not let this topic go by the wayside and will continue to educate people on the good a SID can do for our downtown. |
Parkingsux
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 54
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 11:07 am: |
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It sounds like a rusted old see-saw and a backboard with no basket to me. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 323
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 11:07 am: |
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Elaine,
Points taken well.
Someone recently wrote:Have you checked to see how much taxes they already pay?
In the same respect, is it fair to say businesses pay a lot of taxes so increase the taxes for residents who already pick up the cost?
The SID would be a "joint partnership" between the business community and the residents so each would bear the responsibility to improve the downtown.
Someone recently wrote:Why aren't you looking at the Parking Authority with the same scrutiny? Do you have any idea how much money goes through the PA that is never accounted for to the public?
SOPA does a reasonably good job maintaining parking lots, issuing permits, providing customer service and enforcing parking regulations - but I will check on the money issue. Again point taken.
Jeff - care to chime in? Any thoughts?
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 324
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 11:16 am: |
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Okay Growler... we have some weird ESP going on right now, lol. |
growler
Citizen
Username: Growler
Post Number: 731
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 12:08 pm: |
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What's up with the "Someone recently wrote" in the quote text? Weird.
Dave, is there a way to put the original quoters name in their instead?
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Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 7026
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 12:44 pm: |
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Growler, that's a good thought, but the way the software is set up makes it impossible. Basically if more than one variable gets passed (postername, quote text), the software looks for comma separator. If the quote text had a comma, it would be truncated. I'll change it back to "Quote", as it does look weird.
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Jeff DuBowy
Supporter
Username: Jeffd
Post Number: 125
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 1:37 pm: |
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The level of frustration on this thread is quite unfortunate.
As a member of the DMC committee - the six + months spent on the committee and meetings now feels like wasted time.
The financial issues did not pop up over night - the BOT gave the DMC committee its' blessing with the directive "Do Not Worry About Funding". Were the health care and pension cost increases that Trustee Rosen spoke of just implemented after May 10th?
The better part of the DMC initial board meeting with Village Officials on May 31st was spent on "Organization", "Reporting" and "Authority". Trustee Rosen did express concern for funding at this meeting. It was not a major discussion - and would be discussed at the finance committee meeting on June 21st.
At the Finance meeting it became obvious there would be "No funding available for a DMC". To salvage the investment the initial DMC board had made - the idea of a "SID" was discussed.
To address the Parking Authority critics.
The Cash Cow that is spoken of has currently contracted to lease jitneys to shuttle commuters. There have been numerous improvements made to the municipal lots (have you recently seen the "Rescue Squad Lot"?). The function of SOPA is to funnel profits earned back into the community. As a board member I assure you that is my objective.
I must express some disappointment. SOPA takes much criticism yet no one ever comes to a SOPA meeting to express their concerns or to clarify misinformation that may be circulating. The finances of SOPA are public record. If there are specific concerns regarding SOPA financial or otherwise, I invite you to voice your concerns at the next SOPA meeting on August 16th 7:00pm Village Hall. |
growler
Citizen
Username: Growler
Post Number: 734
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Quote:"No funding available for a DMC"
Then why are there discussions of buying a $250,000 sculpture? I mean come on. This is flagrant mismanagement of our money.
I wonder if Tony Smith is related to any of the BOT or anyone within the current administration... |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 325
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Thanks for the clarification Jeff
If you don't mind, what's your take on the situation now and with the SID? What do you offer is the best course for the village to take at this time.
P.S. Appreciate your work with SOPA. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 327
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 2:42 pm: |
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Growler - the money for the sculpture was approved a couple years ago by the board and there is a contract...
But I couldn't agree more - there was another discussion thread on this topic.
He's not "related" to anyone (that I know of) but I believe this is very important to the VP. |
Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 349
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 7:39 pm: |
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Jeff, it is my understanding that the Township pays for all capital improvements to the parking facilities leased to the Parking Authority. I think there was a $500,000 addition to the budget just for that purpose.
Would provide how much and when was the last time the PA "funneled" profits to the Township. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 358
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 9:48 pm: |
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................................................................................ ................................................................................ ............................................................ bump
I believe this will be brought up for discussion very soon by our governing body... and I'm still convinced a SID is the way to go --- has anyone come up with anything different? New developments? Towns in which a SID has failed?
Eric - any comments on this? |
Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 212
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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I will not be allowed to participate in my official capacity as Village Trustee in the BoT discussion and vote regarding the SID, because the commercial property I own is located within the District. So here are my thoughts as a private citizen and commercial property owner.
The DMRC/SID issue was discussed at a 6/21/05 meeting of the BoT Finance Committee, of which I am a member, with three DMC Initial Board reps. When, at that meeting, Trustee Rosen presented the hard fact that if the Village were to finance the DMRC the residents’ taxes would increase by 4% I gasped. I certainly didn’t want our taxes to go any higher than they are now, so I expressed my preference for a SID supported by the businesses, rather than another 4% tax increase.
I proposed to the Finance Committee that the BoT calls for a special public meeting on the issue, where the financial impact of a DMRC would be explained to the public, and get a sense of the public’s reaction to a 4% tax increase vs. a SID. My proposal went into deaf ears.
Since I came back from my summer vacation I had further discussions on the issue with other Trustees and with some business owners and residents. I read the DMC Initial Board’s recommendations of 07/08/05, and I read the posts on MOL. With this new knowledge, I am not sure that the Finance Committee exerted enough effort to explore the means of funding a DMRC. In the past I have found the BoT very adept in discovering funding sources for their favorite projects. So let’s make the establishment of a DMRC a BoT favorite project.
The BoT has insisted for years that funding of the DMRC was not an issue of the DMC Initial Board’s concern, and that they should focus in the organizational and operational issues, which they did in an excellent fashion. That request of the BoT would lead anyone to believe that the Trustees would seek themselves the funding sources. I consider it therefore the job of the BoT to find funding sources for the DMRC.
I believe that the Finance Committee should have a better look at financing a DMRC with funds from the extraordinary aid we've just received from the State, or using some of the $3.1M budget surplus.
Experience tells us that a SID can only work if the business community buys into it. We know that most of our business owners resist the additional assessment of a SID and that fact alone can doom our SID to failure. I propose the following: let the BoT fully fund a DMRC (structured as per DMC Initial Board's recommendations) for, say, the next two or three years, and let its success show to the business owners the benefits of an improved downtown; then our business community will not resist as much a SID assessment that will pay for the continuation of the services provided by the DMRC.
This will be a residents/businesses cooperative effort where we, the residents - who after all do benefit in many ways from an improved downtown - will help our businesses in their initial effort to improve our downtown, and the business owners, who will eventually take full responsibility for their environment.
I express my opinion above as a private citizen who is eager to see our downtown get better than it is.
To dissipate any thoughts that my opinion is biased because I am a commercial property owner who would be burdened by a SID assessment, I inform the reader that, according to my leases, any future assessment imposed on my property will be passed on to my tenants. So I have no direct personal interest whether we have a SID assessment or not.
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hariseldon
Citizen
Username: Hariseldon
Post Number: 393
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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Eric: That's pretty disingenuous. To pass on the taxes you have to raise the rent, which will contribute to making your property uncompetitive. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 1405
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
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Um, Hari, your question appearsr a bit disingenuous as well...
I would suspect that all landlords would pass on these assessments to their renters. So the competitive landscape would remain the same.
Now, if some landlord wanted to suck up the cost, then he is essentially lowering the rent. I'm sure other landlords would respond to remain competitive. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2161
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 10:17 am: |
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Eric: First off, if you have to recuse yourself from discussing as a trustee, I don't think you can seperate your thoughts as a private citizen. You can check with an attorney who knows how this works but pretty sure based on past history. You even say you had discussions with other trustees since you got back from vacation. If you know you are not supposed to discuss as a trustee why were you having such a discussion? (And for the record, Bill Calabrese cannot discuss a SID either).
Extraordinary aid can not be used for anything other than tax reduction. Besides that is a one time influx of $100,000.
When the BOT told the DMC not to get hung up on funding, it was also stated (and agreed to by the majority) that at one point a SID would be needed to supplement the funding of a DMC but we would try to figure out a way to do the initial funding.
I think the 4% number that Trustee Rosen quoted was on the high side, but the point remains on how to pay for a DMC (residents, commercial property owners or a combination).
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Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
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Having lived in South Orange for over 25 years and owned and operated a business in town, it always puzzled me as to why there was a reluctance by South Orange to embrace Seton Hall and be proud to be a quaint college town. Not an “Animal House” town but rather as both Princeton and Georgetown have done. As well, I often said the same as to why SHU had not made more concessions/overtures to The Village.
As SHU’s campus began to grow in the 80’s and the need for off campus housing increased, the immediate areas around SHU were adversely affected (i.e. who wants to live near loud college students renting houses). The once proud residents began to sell in droves –particularly Ward and Seton Place. Once these area we considered in a “college zone” the areas close by began to sell (not wanting to be considered near a “college zone”). And so on, and so on….. It was like a plague and sad.
Whether SO likes it or not –it’s a college town. By that –I mean, there is a rather major University located in it.
I have always thought the shopping district in SO was too long (extending from Ridgewood Avenue all the way toward Prospect Street). Like the rest of Main Street America, most of the storefronts could not compete against the Livingston Mall and chains such as Home Depot and began to really struggle for a buck. Those of you who remember Becks Hardware would proably agree they may have been good for the 60’s and 70’s but would be hard pressed to survive today.
Why not make a deal with Seton hall to move all of the SO Ave businesses from Valley Street all the way to Prospect Street –into the heart of the village –thus creating a more compact shopping district? Seton Hall could convert all of the now vacant buildings into “Brownstones” for under and/or post grads. This would resolve some of SHU’s housing woes and put students in a central area (in walking distant to everything and away from quiet residences). Even though the SOPD has done (what I consider) a stellar job of controlling the college rentals, SHU could be more involved in doing so.
With the right planning, the Brownstones could lend themselves to the “Gaslight” look of SO while still not allowing Frat Houses etc….
Finally, why not create a system for local businesses to accept SHU meal cards and/or library cards for local purchases? Or has SO looked into creating a SO credit card for the students that all local merchants would accept?
Probably a costly venture but perhaps one worth looking into.
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Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 213
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:25 am: |
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Mark,
Thanx for the scolding.
As a Village official I am supposed to recuse myself from any public discussion and voting on the issue and step down from the dais. As a private citizen I am free to discuss the issue with anyone I choose, until our Village attorney shows me documentation that prevents me to do so.
You say: it was also stated (and agreed to by the majority) that at one point a SID would be needed to supplement the funding of a DMC but we would try to figure out a way to do the initial funding.
Exactly my point. Now, let's see the BoT try (but try harder) to figure out a way to do the initial funding.
------------------------
Hariseldon,
Disingenuous? It is stated in the lease which was signed by the tenants before they moved in.
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2162
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:40 am: |
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Eric: I did not mean to scold and actually I am pretty disappointed that you can't participate in the discussion. I just don't see how you can discuss on MOL (or in some other public forum) and claim that you are not discussing as a trustee.
It is not a matter of trying harder, it is matter of tax dollars. Even if we started to create the SID today the village would still have to come up with the initial funds. I have said before this is a partnership and I think the funding should come from both sources (taxes to residents and a SID).
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Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 117
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:19 pm: |
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Hello S. Flood! I've been reading this thread with much interest, but not enough knowledge/experience to offer anything.
However, I MUST say that your recent post was very interesting and I hope others will comment on it. Sounds like some very good ideas to this non-business owner/S.Orange-Businesses-First Shopper/Taxpayer!
Anyone else? |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 361
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:41 pm: |
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Sean - You are the man! Come work for SHU or run for Trustee - we need more people like you!
The South Orange Credit card you speak of is actually now known as the "Pirate's Gold" card (brand new for next year). SHU is working with businesses to have a swipe machine - so it's underway (smart thinking though).
Eric - Thanks for responding, it really is great to have you back!
If you a) "realistically" feel that the rest of the BOT will find other sources of funding while we have several major projects underway that all need funding and b) think they will accept in practice (not in theory) all the recommendations requested and establish a DRMC -- after several volunteer committees, marches, letter writing, petitions, etc. etc. etc. ..... then I will reconsider my thoughts on the SID.
But I think we both know that will not happen.
I'll concur with Trustee Rosner's thoughts on the SID.
I don't want to see anymore delays and the several years of people pleading for a DRMC has done what? Nada |
noracoombs
Citizen
Username: Noracoombs
Post Number: 103
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 1:00 pm: |
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Sheena: I think that the chances of the BOT doing all you mentioned above are about as good as getting all the businesses in this town to agree to fund a SID. I wouldn't bet on either happening--which means we the residents have to live with status quo.
Which makes me very depressed.... |
Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 23
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
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Thanks Sheena. I may have to pass on the Trustee idea. There is no way in hell I'd make it through the background check. |
Eric DeVaris
Citizen
Username: Eric_devaris
Post Number: 214
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
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Sheena,
Your "but I think we both know that will not happen" is a defeatist attitude that surprises me coming from you, a steely fighter.
There are few things that can change a course traced by the BoT: a roomful of outspoken protesters at Village Hall meetings, a letter writing, e-mailing, and telephoning campaign, and an election to the BoT of more people who are against the status quo.
I suggest you work on this with Noracoombs. Working with you will take her out of her depression.
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Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
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I fail to see what you are depressed about, Noracoombs. We have some fabulous businesses in this village. For example, Center Shoes. Raphael is a master craftsman. When the upscale stores in the Short Hills Mall need shoe repair, they send the shoes to Raphael. But he is much much more than a repairman, he can customize shoes, bags and belts to suit your taste. Have you ever been there? You would be proud that your village has such a special service.
Have you ever been in Victor's Florist? He is a nationally recognized expert on Orchids. Have you seen his new, charming store? Did you ever order flowers from him?
Did you read Friday's Star Ledger? The Munchmobile praised "It's a Wrap" and "Blue Moon Diner." Two of the five places visited were in South Orange, and THEY like them. Maybe somebody could post the link for me.
I am sorry to disagree with you, but I am tired of sitting back and hearing your complaints about the downtown when truthfully, most of you are not as well acquainted with it as you should or could be.
I am going to give you some blurbs about our other great businesses, too, but not all at once.
Perhaps you will learn to see the businesses in a different light. |
noracoombs
Citizen
Username: Noracoombs
Post Number: 104
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 3:27 pm: |
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Elaine: You fail to see what I am depressed about? OK. Let me be very, very clear. Stand in the center of town, and look long and hard at the ShopRite site. Then walk a few yards and take a look at Beifus. Turn and look across the street at the boarded up hole in the ground that used to be the rug store. Feeling depressed yet?
Look, no one knows more than I do that the Village is dotted with (and I use the words "dotted with" VERY purposefully) great places to shop and eat. I patronize all of the businesses you mentioned on a regular basis. While you're at it, throw in the jewelry store, On Track cleaners, Cate and Abby, Village Camera, Sayan Living, Dancing Goat, Hot Bagels, Dunkin Donuts, Urban Femme, Street Rock, every single Village eatery--those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head that have received my business. With all due respect, I don't need a lecture about how I "am not as well acquainted" with Village businesses as I should or could be.
But opening up my wallet and divvying up the contents among all existing stores in the Village will not for one second change two VERY critical facts: 1) the centerpiece of downtown--the area across from Sloan Street--the heart of our Village--looks like utter s***. 2) There is no indication whatsoever that any sort of professionally-created master plan (other than whatever it is that the Village "redevelopment committee" has put together) exists at all. Which means that the Village downtown will continue to be "dotted with" great business establishments, but will never be a cohesive, well-thought out and planned retail community.
And yes, Elaine, that makes me very depressed. Understand now? |
Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 26
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 5:38 pm: |
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Yes, Nora, I do understand and I am in complete agreement with you. I am not the person you should direct your anger at. The part of town that looks like you know what is, as you say, the "other" part, the Redevelopment project areas. This is the part that the residents wanted, not the merchants, and this is the part that is an eye sore. To say that the downtown will never be a "cohesive, well-thought out and planned retail community" is an understatement. However, the same administration keeps getting voted in, so expect no changes, and thank you for your continued support of the businesses that do survive. But they should not have to pay for this monumental mistake. |
mary brenner
Citizen
Username: Marybrenner
Post Number: 53
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:08 am: |
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Elaine Harris you are 100% correct. I have used center shoes to make a custom belt for me and it is absolutely beautiful! I love its a wrap for lunch and the candle shop is a wonderful place. I use the candle shop for personal use as well as gifts. Sayan living has wonderful home items,Victors florest always does a great job! |
Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 24
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 8:27 am: |
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I agree there are some great places to shop in SO Village but I believe the problem may lie in the mere size of the shopping district coupled with the difficulties (for both shoppers and business owners) related to parking.
Places like Roberts Shoe Store, The Tennis Shop, Grunnings, GM Starks, Vose Stationary, Sid Millers Butcher and so many more "old school" past SO businesses did not close shop because they had made it rich. Trust me, as a small business owner myself, getting rich is not in the cards. Competition with two Malls in close proximity has made it all but impossible to compete.
If we agree that SO may not have the infrastructure, traffic, parking and/or affordability to support 100+ small businesses in its large "business district", why not downsize, condense the district (to something more manageable and alluring) and allow EXPERIENCED (not first time) developers to bid on the properties from Valley Street all the way to Prospect?
If Seton Hall is unwilling to participate with SO (to use this for housing –as I suggested earlier), then let it be known. Publicly call out SHU and let them know the town wants to embrace them. If they refuse then so be it but that will eliminate the sound of their cries for "partnering" in the future. At least everyone will know SHU did not meet SO ½ way.
If local developers created quaint "walk ups" or "Brownstones" in the vacant buildings (created by moving the current businesses to a condensed shopping district or -dare I say it, eminent domain) young professional adults would be clammering for an opportunity to live there. The commute to anywhere via train and bus would be awesome! The young professional statistically eat/drinks out more and simply spends more because of a lack of children etc....
Often SO has billed itself as "The Next Hoboken". Take a ride and check out the quaint walk ups in Hoboken. That look would lend itself to the Village nicely.
Otherwise, I think the turnover will continue, good business may leave while people wait for “what ifs”, “somedays” and “coming soons”.
I’m not expert on town re-development. I would suspect there are parking, sewage etc… implications for doing such. By why not visit it? I am sure LEGITIMATE developers would pay a pretty penny to build in an area like SO Village.-thus increasing tax revenue and everything which “ripples” from more professionals.
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Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 142
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 8:42 am: |
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Sean, I said it before - you have some terrific ideas, in my also non-professional opinion! But convincing the MOL readers/posters is almost like shouting in the Grand Canyon.
Please consider sending your ideas by letter to Calabrese and the BOT, or if your schedule permits & you're not too shy, speak out at the next BOT meeting!
Write Calabrese and ask him to copy the trustees:
South Orange Village Town Hall
101 South Orange Avenue
South Orange, NJ 07079
ATTN: Village President, William Calabrese |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 925
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:18 am: |
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I wince when you say the next Hoboken...
Hoboken's redevelopment was plagued with trouble. I've heard that, in the early days, arson fires were used to make properties vacant, with some fatalities.
Jersey cronyism was rampant. I can't remember if any of the elected officials ended up in jail or not.
The building across from my husband's sat half demolished for a couple of years when some developer did things wrong. We complain about empty lots here...my husband lived across the street from a building that had seen about two swings of the wrecking ball before demolition was halted. It sat there with a corner missing for a couple of years.
Hoboken got there, but it took at least as much pain as South Orange is now seeing! |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 9169
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:42 am: |
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I think SO is more comparitable to Westfield than Hoboken. An interesting point is how far Westfield has gone with redevelopment of their downtown area over the last ten years while SO hasn't made all that much progress.
You can debate the desireablity of chain stores, but they do bring in other smaller businesses as well. |
Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 25
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 1:47 pm: |
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I would agree with your assessment that SO is more like Westfield than Hoboken and by that I mean -geared towards a much more mature professional and/or family. I mentioned Hoboken because of the desirable and romantic brownstones which line the streets -not necessarily the infrastructure. As well, they would fit in that particular area perfectly.
To dismiss the idea because of graft or inactivity is too strong though. Why punish those for the actions of others? If there is no confidence in the elected officials, that is another matter.
I saw the corruption in Hoboken, the evictions, the mess but that should not be the barometer for rebuilding a town/city but rather a disgrace. I would hope SO residents "take to the streets" if those things happened. I think better of SO residents. It was easier in Hoboken because it was a transient town. The average Joe only lived there for a few years ... and probably never voted.
These actions start with ideas. Most politicians would love to know well in advance just how the public feels about a certain issue before publicly introducing or voting. Parhaps this is the first step?
Why would SO not want to throw their hat in the ring and make it happen? Be the poster child for how to do it right? There certainly is the talent, the concern, the passion.
Perhaps too optimistic but what’s the alternative … complaining without some sort of solution?
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Elaine Harris
Citizen
Username: Elaineharris
Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 2:58 pm: |
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Sean, I, too, find your ideas to be thought provoking. Out of curiosity, what are the street numbers of the buildings that you think could be remodeled into "brownstones"? |
Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 26
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 3:14 pm: |
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Elaine, though not sure if feasible. I thought the Village could examine the area from Valley Street all the way up to Prospect Street but not sure of the exact street numbers.
Of course only if the Village and/or County could offer incentives to the current businesses and landlords to move/sell.
This could create a condensed shopping district and help eliminate vacancies.
Once again, probably a dream but an idea.
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 399
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 8:08 pm: |
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Ohhhhh Growler and Spitz and... everyone else!!!
South Orange News
VILLAGE HOLDING PUBLIC FORUM TO DISCUSS SIDS
On September 8th, 2005 at 7:00 pm, the Township of South Orange Village is holding a public forum in Village Hall. The forum will consist of a panel of representatives from Special Improvement Districts (SIDs) from our area. The panel will review the pros and cons of SIDs, in addition to answering questions from attendees.
We hope all interested parties will attend!
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Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 205
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 8:36 pm: |
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MRosner, will we be able to watch that via the website? (Sorry, I forgot the projected date of that being functional.) |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 400
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 1:47 am: |
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Pdg - get a sitter! You need to be AT the meeting!!!!
Common' now... I won't smoke for a whole day if you come |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2187
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 9:45 am: |
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Pdg: I am not sure if you will be able to watch via the internet.
By the way, that meeting is not yet on the village calendar and do not know if that is an official date. I am assuming the Finance committee organized this meeting, but whomever is repsonsible has chosen not to keep the rest of the BOT up to date regarding the potential SID meeting or if it is to be a meeting with the full BOT. Either way, I won't be there on the 8th.
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Howard Levison
Citizen
Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 373
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 11:22 am: |
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Mark, from the SO Web site:
http://www.southorange.org/news.asp?page=1
South Orange News
VILLAGE HOLDING PUBLIC FORUM TO DISCUSS SIDS
On September 8th, 2005 at 7:00 pm, the Township of South Orange Village is holding a public forum in Village Hall. The forum will consist of a panel of representatives from Special Improvement Districts (SIDs) from our area. The panel will review the pros and cons of SIDs, in addition to answering questions from attendees.
We hope all interested parties will attend!
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