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jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 108
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 10:42 pm: | 
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The curbing in many areas of town is in sorry shape, due to age, snow plow damage or substandard material. It is not clear to me who actually is responsible for maintaining curbs. Plus there seems to be no standard for how it is reconstructed, when homeowners individually get it repaired. The curbing in front of some homes is even non-existent, and the lawn runs up to the roadbed. In other cases, it is crumbled and disintegrating. In other areas, the town has put in Belgian block.
What is the story? Are there standards for curbing, and is there code enforcement or not? The place is starting to look like a hodge-podge in many of the town's neighborhoods. |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 613
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 10:49 am: |
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I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but when I read something like this, I always want to say:
"If you really want an answer to this question, call town hall. If you want speculation and non-definitive opinions about how it should be, post here."
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jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 112
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 3:25 pm: |
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Argon_smythe:
A valid point, but I have tried that and I get mixed responses. On some streets, like Vose Ave. the town replaced the curbs (not sure why). Then I was told that curbs are the homeowners to repair, except if damaged by snow plows. That seems like the only real way they would get damaged, so it would seem like town responsibility. HOmeowners get disgusted and fix them, but to no standard. Or they just leave them to look crumbled and awful. No one enforces any code because I think they don't know who's at fault. Its a vicious circle. |
Nonymous Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 8669
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
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Asking here is more fun, even if less useful. It's like looking for your contact lens in the kitchen because the light is better there, even though you know you dropped it in the living room. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1341
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 4:05 pm: |
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I've never lived in a town before where homeowners were responsible for sidewalks and curbs.
In my experience -- once a home or development of homes was built, the town does its own QA of the work -- the builder bonds in case its poor quality -- and then its the towns responsibility.
Last winter the snowplow took a chunk out of the apron/curb by the driveway. I received a "friendly" warning to fix from the town. (I ended up fixing it myself using a bag of quikcrete).
I have a feeling that homeowner responsibility for this stuff is more the norm in northern NJ, though.
Pete |
campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 183
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 4:19 pm: |
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I've never lived in a town where you weren't allowed to park in front of your house overnight, or had to drive 2 miles to make a left turn.... - I think I remember hearing/seeing somewhere that you can be ticketed for having bad sidewalks. NJ sure has some weird regulations to go along with their weird traffic pattern |
Walker
Citizen
Username: Fester
Post Number: 192
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 4:44 pm: |
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My understanding of it is if the town damages your sidewalk or if a tree on the Curb side of the sidewalk pushes up the slabs then the town is responsible, otherwise you are. I may well be wrong, check with the town. |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 2389
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 10:12 pm: |
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Occasionally there are special projects that redo the curbs and sidewalks along with street paving. However, the norm is for the homeowner to be responsible for the curbs and sidewalks.
I would actually prefer that the town be responsible for doing the work (even if the homeowners were assessed when the major "redo" times come around.) This would keep things consistent and also ought to cost less for the homeowners in the long run due to economies of scale of doing a whole block (or several) at once rather than just in bits and pieces as happens with the current system. Worst is when (as a homeowner) you finally go ahead and do a needed sidewalk/curb upgrade and then one of those projects comes around to your block and they tear it all out and replace it. This never actually happened to me, but it came close once about ten years ago when we lived in the Hilton section. (We procrastinated just long enough, so we got the benefit of the upgrades that were done in that section with HUD grants at the time.) |
Daniel M. Jacobs, PP, AICP
Supporter
Username: Conrail
Post Number: 51
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 1, 2005 - 8:50 am: |
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I don't know about the Village, but in NYC, the property owner is responsible for the sidewalks and the City is responsible for the curbs. This is because the curbs form part of the drainage system for the roadbed. |
redY67
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 2707
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 1, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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FYI, the town is not responsible if a tree pushes up your sidewalk. Maplewood/SO created some loophole around the law, so homeowners must replace it. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 117
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 10:34 am: |
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I would like the town (and I am not sure who it should be on the staff) to actively take a look at the state of the curbs throughout the village to document how badly they have deteriorated and to set a standard for how they should be constructed. In my neighborhood, there are some curbs which have a metal cornice running the length (which I suspect are the original curbs), other curbs which have rock in the cement, sone which have expansion joints and some which don't, some are just lousy looking cement jobs, some are patch jobs, some are lower than others, some are Belgian block, etc. If homeowners are responsible, (which I don't think they should be since most times destruction is due to snowplows), then standards should be set for contractors to meet. If there are codes, they should be updated to include the standards, and then they should be enforced. Shoody streets make a neighborhood look neglected. (Mr.Rosner, can you and the other BOT members weigh in on this?) |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2136
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 11:47 am: |
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As many have noted, the town has been re-doing the curbs in the village. It is the hope to have all belgian block curbs where possible. Once we have attained the goal, I think we should set that as the standard for homeowners to maintain.
I agree that some damage is done by the snowplows but there are obviously other factors too.
As of now, homeowners are responsible for the curbs and sidewalks on their property. Code enforcement is responsible for making sure homeowners maintain their sidewalks and curbs. They do drive around and sometimes neighbors complain (actually usually joggers and dogwalkers who get tired of tripping on uneven sidewalks). |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 119
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 12:08 pm: |
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I don't know who the code enforcer is. Is his/her citation record publically available, and what follow up is done?
Is there a timetable of public record as to what the schedule is for curb replacement, so that home owners know when to expect the belgian block replacement. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2137
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 8, 2005 - 11:23 am: |
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Jayjay: The village engineer keeps track of the streets and approx. when they might be done (and if they will be done).
Tony Grenci is the department head for code enforcement. If a summons is given it is followed up. You can contact that office if you have any specific questions (973-378-7715).
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hariseldon
Citizen
Username: Hariseldon
Post Number: 387
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 11:13 pm: |
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RedY67:
If tree roots damage the sidewalk, my impression is that the town or county is liable if that entity owns the tree. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 8961
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 11:27 pm: |
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Not in Maplewood, which is where I think RedY67 lives. Interestingly, the town plants the tree on town property, yet the homeowner is responsible for what the tree does. Such a deal!
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sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 2488
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 7:48 am: |
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Tom, I don't think that's correct. When we got a new sidewalk put in, the town came to deal with the tree roots ... we didn't have to pay for it but our sidewalk contractor had to coordinate scheduling of the work. |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 2493
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 8:21 am: |
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Oops - I realize you're talking about the sidewalk fix, not the tree root fix. Yes, we did have to pay for that. |
jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 121
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 9:39 am: |
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The SO Engineering department says that the BOT wants to have Belgian block for the curbs throughout the town. (Where that falls on the capital expense budget in terms of priority is anyone's guess.) But they can't say what their schedule is for replacement or how much money is in the budget for this project. That being the case, how are citizens supposed to know what to do about deterioated curbing, if there is no replacement project schedule? All they could say is that they will be working on Ridgewood Road. Also, this suggests that homeowners are not responsible, if the town is replacing the curbing. I don't know why you can't get a straight answer from anyone in city hall. |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2149
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 9:58 am: |
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jayjay: Every year we spend $400,000 on repaving and curb repairs. The engineer has a map that lays out the plan for streets although sometimes there are changes for various reasons. Another $100,000 a year is spent on chip sealing (although it goes by a different name now) which is done as part of a program to lenghten the time needed before a street needs to be repaved. The current BOT could vote to spend a different amount on road repairs in the future but it has been very consistent for at least the past 8 years.
If you call the village engineer, he can let you know if your street is scheduled for this year or next year.
If your street is not on the list, you should do the repairs. If it has been more than 15 - 20 years since your street was repaved, you can probably be safe in saying your street is on the list to be done in the next few years.
Quite frankly, this has been one of the areas where we have been very consistent and recognize that we need to always commit to spending money for road repairs. If we were to skip a year, it would just cost more in the long run.
The county has their own schedule for their roads and sometimes paving is delayed because of potential grant money, which I think is the reason for Ridgewood Road delay.
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jayjay
Citizen
Username: Jayjayp
Post Number: 125
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 10:07 am: |
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MrRosner-
Thanks for the info, but in fact the Engineeering office could not tell me what their curb replacement schedule is. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1356
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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My street was repaved last year (and boy was it overdue).
That said, on my street the curbs and sidewalks are integral (no grass strip between sidewalk & curb) -- which, btw, is a terrible design -- in the winter the sidewalk gets completely covered each time the plow comes by.
While there can't be belgian block curbs on this street -- it does mean that the curb design and quality vary greatly along the street. I agree, some sort of "standards" document would be a good idea.
Pete |
Sean Flood
Citizen
Username: Campus_sub_shop
Post Number: 27
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 9:37 am: |
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Call the DPW. Great guys. Loyal and kind.
Or grab a "cold one" at Bunnys Happy Hour. You're bound to bump into some of the crew there.
...and you'll get and awesome pie too! |
SO1969
Citizen
Username: Bklyn1969
Post Number: 81
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 5:42 pm: |
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To engage in some thread drift, I would think everyone would agree that providing and maintaining roads is an essential government service. In fact, one of a small number, probably, that the libertarians on the board would agree with.
Yet, according mrosner:
"Every year we spend $400,000 on repaving and curb repairs. The engineer has a map that lays out the plan for streets although sometimes there are changes for various reasons. Another $100,000 a year is spent on chip sealing (although it goes by a different name now) which is done as part of a program to lenghten the time needed before a street needs to be repaved. The current BOT could vote to spend a different amount on road repairs in the future but it has been very consistent for at least the past 8 years."
First, let me say I'm glad this plan exists and this is being done systematically. Second, I'm glad that the BOT has consistently recognized for 8 years that you have fund this, delaying ultimately leads to higher costs.
So, what, if anything, is wrong with this? To my way of thinking - and seeing and driving - and according to at least one post, the level of funding is too low (good that it is steady, but too low)to address what appears to be an existing backlog of deteriorated streets. Some sections of town, I've noticed mostly in Montrose, appear to have several severely deteriorated streets. I'm guessing this comes from a period when a prior generation of BOT members were shortsighted and cut funding for roads.
As further thread drift, I think this topic puts the Tony Smith sculpture expenditures into an interesting light...it's not whether its $30 or $90 or whatever per household...we're talking about spending as much as our entire annual budget for road and curb replacement and repair on installing a "gift."
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