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Spitz
Supporter Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1217 Registered: 3-2003
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:10 pm: |
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Thanks Mark - That explains a lot. Excuse me for my outburst, and I owe you an apology. |
   
mary brenner
Citizen Username: Marybrenner
Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2005
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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First of all in this setting it is absolutly UGLY. It is fighting the design of the building. This type fo art belongs in a park |
   
aquaman
Supporter Username: Aquaman
Post Number: 341 Registered: 8-2001
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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As I live and breathe water, I will start a new chewed-gum collection all over this piece of dreck if they bring it into town.
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Stevef
Citizen Username: Stevef
Post Number: 75 Registered: 5-2005

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:12 pm: |
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This "gift" is like giving a door for a homeless person! |
   
aquaman
Supporter Username: Aquaman
Post Number: 342 Registered: 8-2001
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:13 pm: |
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Put it by the old water-pumping plant by the JAC. what a hideous monstrosity. |
   
Kristen Williamson
Citizen Username: Kris219
Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2005
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:14 pm: |
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Alley, I know the piece in South Plainfield, and I don't know anyone in that town who regards that as beautiful. Everyone I know from that town hates it because it looks like an angry shark-like helicopter is attacking the city or something. That is worse then what we could possibly have here, so I agree that there are worse options, I just don't understand why someone would shoot for the worst, instead of the best. I say high standards for all!! But seriously Alley, let's think about this...maybe even an informal MOL poll... Which do you prefer to look at: art that you hate, or art that you love? If I see something I hate I will most likely say, "Who wasted their time and money?" and I will walk away. If I see something I like, which isn't shocking and out of context...I will say, "Wow, I'm proud of this town for supporting such a great artist with such superb tallent!" (well not exactly, but it would be close) But I think that unless someone can correct the current knowledge, the town is hoping to fundraise, and if not, the cost is picked up by the town. That is the main issue to most people. Other issues that Mark pointed out, like a safety hazard, and other issues that posters have voiced, only goes to show that this piece should not be put where the current plan intends as its destination. |
   
mrosner
Citizen Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2117 Registered: 4-2002
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:16 pm: |
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Maybe we can put on top of Kozlowski Hall.
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Dave
Supporter Username: Dave
Post Number: 6982 Registered: 4-1997

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:20 pm: |
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quote:The Public Needs to Know The Tau Is More Than a "Black Thing" Lee Cohen Elaina Royter's first impression of the big black sculpture adjacent to the Hunter West Building was not that much different from many students. "Wow," she said, referring to it as the "big black thing in the courtyard. I saw it from one angle and it looked like half of a house." Some students congregating between classes in front of Hunter West often hide under the wings of the big black sculpture when it rains. Contrary to popular belief, "the black thing" is not a refuge for rainy day smokers nor a wall to lean on for those chatting or checking out potential dates between classes. The sculpture symbolizing the Greek letter Tau is one of the last sculptures erected by the late Hunter professor Tony Smith. Smith built the Tau in 1965 using painted steel. The architect, painter, and sculptor used geometric figures in his designs. The Tau is a 14-foot structure comprised of one figure bounded by eight equilateral triangles on one side and four equilateral triangles on the other side. Smith taught at Hunter College from 1962 until 1974 and then returned in 1979. Smith died in 1980, but his legacy remains outside Hunter West. The College purchased the sculpture for $160,000. Some students who've taken art history can actually identify it. Royter, of Bay Ridge, Brooklyny, is not the only one unaware of Smith's architectural styling. "I thought it was a seven," said Jennifer Amabile, 18, a freshman from Park Slope. "I thought it was part of the address." While Royter said that she finds it almost magnetic, Amabile said there should be a plaque on it or that the Tau be replaced with something living like a tree. Her friend, Lindsay Camp, 18, said, "It's an architectural mishap. It's so boxy and big, and it doesn't match," said Camp. She said that something representative of Hunter, like a statue of Thomas Hunter, or something with the names of special alumni or donators to the college. Amabile was not the only student who spoke of adding life to the courtyard. Junior Robert Cleeve, an art major, said that there should be flowers on top. "It would bring it to life," says the 23-year-old Cleeve. If the sculpture was to be replaced with another work of art, Cleeve says he wants it to be inspiring. "If there was something really beautiful there, it might inspire students to read," he said. Could another sculpture do justice to Tony Smith, who has had his work in museums around the world and across New York City? Camp said, "Something should be attributed to Tony Smith, acknowledging him." The thousands of students who gather in front of it, gaze at it and touch it don't know that it was built by one of Hunter's most esteemed professors. Only Cleeve, the art major, of those interviewed for this article, knew the significance of this sculpture but everyone had something positive to say about it. "It symbolizes something," said Royter. "It's part of the ambience of Hunter," said Amabile. "It kind of stands out ... gives me a sense of pride," Cleeve said,
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Dave
Supporter Username: Dave
Post Number: 6983 Registered: 4-1997

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:22 pm: |
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MHD
Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 2623 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:24 pm: |
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aquaman & mary, I completely agree and I have said it from the beginning. This is the biggest joke and not one dime of taxpayer money should be spent on such nonsense. I'll gladly "donate" my pocket lint for $250,000, too. |
   
Kristen Williamson
Citizen Username: Kris219
Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2005
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:24 pm: |
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Mark- Then we can rename Kozlowski Hall to Tau Hall, or Bronze Hall, or Tony Hall or Smith Hall...wow the possibilities are endless!
Kristen |
   
Dave
Supporter Username: Dave
Post Number: 6984 Registered: 4-1997

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:26 pm: |
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Every angle shows an almost entirely different scuplture. |
   
Lizziecat
Citizen Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 760 Registered: 5-2003
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:33 pm: |
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Even if the taxpayers are charged only $3.00 per head for this so-called sculpture, I do no wish to pay my $3.00 for it. I would rather that my $3.00 be used to purchase a new book for the Library. It seems to me, that on this board at least, the majority of the citizens do not want this thing. Why not submit this as a line item to the voters at the next election? If the posters on MOL are a representaive sample of the larger population, I'd bet that the voters would reject it. |
   
Spitz
Supporter Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1218 Registered: 3-2003
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:38 pm: |
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Let's put it on the patio at Voro. (Blame it on Dave - his photo above made me think of it.) |
   
AlleyGater
Citizen Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 658 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:41 pm: |
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quote:This "gift" is like giving a door for a homeless person!
I agree. What would we all do with something that makes us think? We don't even have a brain. Most people are unequipped to appreciate artwork. Which is a real shame. Most everyone here has helped prove that well enough.
quote:This type fo art belongs in a park
I think it is RIDICULOUS that one style of art is only appropriate in certain locations. I would agree that different locations may give different meanings to the artwork (recontextualize it maybe), but there is no "right" place. While I am not a HUGE fan of minimalism, I do appreciate how it can seem to get EVERYONE'S fires going. "That's not art." "My two year old could do better." "It's butt ugly." Suddenly I find myself liking it much more. |
   
AlleyGater
Citizen Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 659 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:49 pm: |
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quote:It seems to me, that on this board at least, the majority of the citizens do not want this thing.
That or this board is made up mostly of money grubbing Republicans who want to pinch their pennies so they stay in their own pockets. Or maybe the people who know very little about art are also the most VOCAL people on the board. Maybe the people who don't care for or know much about art want to hear themselves talk the most. Or maybe they just like to impose their close minded wishes upon the rest of us. Could any of these be the reason? |
   
Kristen Williamson
Citizen Username: Kris219
Post Number: 72 Registered: 4-2005
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:49 pm: |
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MHD, I'll take your pocket lint for $205,000, but NOT A PENNY MORE! Kristen ps. I'm not republican or penny pinching. I have no pennies to pinch! |
   
MHD
Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 2624 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 3:56 pm: |
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Kristen, DEAL!! I provide my guarantee that my pocket lint grew right here in South Orange. However, please note that I will only be selling you a LICENSE to my pocket lint. Any additional costs to prepare and maintain the site to display my pocket lint will be your responsibility. Just think about the incredible investment you are making.
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snshirsch
Citizen Username: Snshirsch
Post Number: 373 Registered: 1-2003
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:11 pm: |
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The most ridiculous comment on this page is: "It is also the first choice of the village president" Somehow I don't think it should really matter what BC's first choice is. Some real thought should go into something of this magnitude, and I don't think he can pull that off. At least he hasn't yet.
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Spitz
Supporter Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1219 Registered: 3-2003
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:18 pm: |
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Alley - I think you live in Maplewood? |
   
bets
Supporter Username: Bets
Post Number: 2105 Registered: 6-2001

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:23 pm: |
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Tony was a great guy. His widow is still alive, as are most of his daughters (who babysat me). He loved South Orange, was born in his house on Stanley Road, was great friends with Jackson Pollock, gave my father some sketches for a sculpture in my dad's conference room at work, and is a part of South Orange's history. I can't wait to see it. |
   
Spitz
Supporter Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1220 Registered: 3-2003
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:25 pm: |
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bets - Regardless of the cost to the taxpayers? |
   
Brett Weir
Citizen Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 779 Registered: 4-2004

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:30 pm: |
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I may not know what "Art" is but I know what I like... ...(this isn't it)... Tau is the Greek letter for T. Let the Greeks spend 250-400 K and build it in front of ATHPac or SPARTPac. Kevin Spacey was born in South Orange and has arguably put together a greater and more significant body of work. I'd sooner see a statue of him there. It is after all, a Theater. |
   
MHD
Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 2625 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:32 pm: |
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Why don't we also buy a pair of Max Weinberg's drumsticks, or a "reproduction" of the nomination for Elizabeth Shue's Oscar? I bet both items combined would be less than $250,000 and both items combined would draw more people to South Orange. |
   
AlleyGater
Citizen Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 664 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:32 pm: |
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Does my physical location alter my words and their meaning somehow? My opinion meant NOTHING to you before because it is different than yours, and now that I am "found out" to be a Maplewood resident, it means even less than nothing. |
   
Kristen Williamson
Citizen Username: Kris219
Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2005
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:35 pm: |
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MHD, A few questions: Is this lint mostly cotton? I should let you know that I choose to display this valuable lint in a location where there are many people who are allergic to cotton, even though I am probably using their money (MUAHAHA). If this lint isn't at least 63% cotton, then I cannot accept it, sorry. Now, am I allowed to recreate this lint? I am thinking about decorating my room with it. This is all a part of the liscense, right? In that case, THE PRICE IS RIGHT! Thanks MHD, I will pick it up this weekend! Kristen ps. Good point Brett & MHD |
   
MHD
Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 2626 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:41 pm: |
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We should probably add one of Lauryn Hill's Grammy's to the list of things that would also draw more people to South Orange. Kristen - For only $205,000, you don't really expect REAL cotton, do you? It is a "reproduction" of real cotton, though. Consider it a lithograph of Pocket Lint. |
   
Kristen Williamson
Citizen Username: Kris219
Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2005
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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MHD- You drive a hard bargain. I'm really look for the real thing. It is important to disturb those with the cotton allergy. I'm really not sure now Kristen |
   
Dave
Supporter Username: Dave
Post Number: 6986 Registered: 4-1997

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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pretty cool |
   
Dave
Supporter Username: Dave
Post Number: 6987 Registered: 4-1997

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 5:06 pm: |
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Tony Smith helped Pollock paint a Pollock. Jackson Pollock's Blue Poles
quote:The genesis of Blue Poles attracted a good deal of attention following the publication of an article by Stanley P. Friedman in the New York Magazine in 1973, in which he reported that he had been told by Tony Smith, a close friend of Pollock, that Smith himself had initially painted on the canvas that subsequently became Blue Poles.3 Smith told Friedman that he visited Pollock early in 1952: We were drinking. We decided to paint something together. I wanted to get him out of himself and into colour again. We spread out a large piece of Belgian linen. It must have taken an hour, because it was wrapped in a canvas sack, and inside, it was wrapped in a kind of wax paper. Jackson started taking down paint. Tube after tube of cadmium red. Jackson said, 'I can't start a painting in red'. The tubes came in sets of three. He kept discarding them. And I thought, hell, we are getting away from what I'm trying to do. So I said I'd start. And by luck, the next tube was cadmium orange. It was the fifteenth tube so I squiggled it on. We had eighteen feet of canvas rolled out. And then I laid the wax paper over the squiggles because they were just lines, and I walked on the paper. I flattened the paint out, and then I took the waxed paper off. And Jackson said, 'So that's the way you do it. Here's how I do it,' end he took a pot of Duco that was black and threw the paint on. It turned out a sort of bilious green. And then we started to lay it on. We were drinking. The paint ended up a half-inch thick on the canvas. You can see it. We took off our shoes because we were walking on it. Jackson was using glass tubes filled with paint. They were basting tubes, with rubber bulbs on one end and about an eighth-of-an-inch opening. But he was gripping the bulbs so hard — because he was in this state — that they clogged. He would throw them down and they would break. So he broke them all.
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Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 297 Registered: 4-2005

| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 7:44 pm: |
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Dave - what's your opinion on this whole thing? |
   
Lizziecat
Citizen Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 763 Registered: 5-2003
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 8:41 pm: |
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With respect to Bets, I really don't care if Tony Smith was a great guy, or his widow is still alive, or his daughters baby sat for you. What I care about is seeing my hard-earned tax dollars go for something that is not as necessary for the common good of South Orange as say, repair of the Library's roof, or maybe hiring another police officer, or repair of some of the village streets. We don't need this large sculpture. It seems as if a lot of us don't like it. We do need other things. AS cicizens and taxpayers of this town, we should have the right to a voice in the decision process. Sorry, but baby sitting doesn't count. |
   
talk-it-up
Citizen Username: Talkitup
Post Number: 168 Registered: 3-2004
| Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:47 pm: |
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The statement is "it was a gift" - I need to know - What was a gift ? - The right to build a sculpture based on his design? Should South Orange have to accept this? Why would anybody suggest "undoing" those items completed to create a spot for the sculpture? Is this an appropriate piece for either location near the train station? The scale is large and more suited to a location next to a large city building or a wide open space in front of a corporate park. It is not appropriate in the confined spaces of South Orange. We have smaller scale sculptures around the village now. They appear appropriate in their locations. South Orange loves to indicate it is an artist's community. That is great but, at this point I would rather see more effort on keeping art and music in the schools than placing an oversized scuplture in a village park even if no cost was attached. People come from the city with kids and the one thing that was different about this area is the art that is was offering in its schools. Second I object to undoing existing completed projects that work well. Third, I object to ANY money that would be spent to "undo" existing conditions such as the gazebo and fountain to build a place for the art to be fabricated. You can't just factor in the money required to undo, you also need to include the money that was wasted to build something such as the gazebo fountain in the first place. Fourth there is a maintenance cost that I do not hear being addressed. (and what I really don't understand is why start new projects at cost to taxpayers when you cannot maintain what you have. Village properties require maintenance. Many of the Village properties are historic and art in their own sense. Before you try to do more, take care of what you have.) What is the intent for the future of South Orange. As this point it appears you want to take every bit of open space, every square inch of the Village and build something on it. Is the intent to turn our little village into a city?
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Lizziecat
Citizen Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 764 Registered: 5-2003
| Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:17 am: |
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Sometimes you have to look a gift horse in the mouth. This horse could be Trojan. |
   
bets
Supporter Username: Bets
Post Number: 2114 Registered: 6-2001

| Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 12:28 am: |
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Lizziecat (I suspect we share a first name), You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine own. I think it would be the greatest thing since sliced bologna to have an original Tony Smith smack dab in the center of the village. It should be forever memorialized that this incredible, world-famous sculptor made his home in South Orange, NJ. For those of us who'd like to memorialize the other great talents this town has produced, I'm all for it. I love that Andre Braugher lives here, and that Lauryn Hill attended my high school. Lisa Shue was my sister's close friend at Marshall School, and I (sorry!) picked on Andy as a kid. But Tony Smith is world-renowned and 50s-baby-boomer popular. His daughters ain't no slouches either. You should be proud that growing up in South Orange influenced and inspired such greatness. I'm with Dave on this one. [Edited to add: And I would love to have a picture of me and my Dad at said sculpture, and I'd bet anything I could get most of my sibs to show up at the dedication, especially if there were Smiths invited. How cool would that be?] |
   
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 298 Registered: 4-2005

| Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 2:51 am: |
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Like I said earlier, I'm not opposed to the statue but I'm not fond of the location one bit... I would suggest possibly a park location would be more suitable. IN REGARDS TO THE MONEY!!! $250,000 is just the estimated cost of the statue (as I said before I believe $30k has been raised) and that's not incorporating the cost of removing the gazebo and the fountain (which should be several thousands more) and maintaining the statue - which is made of steel. ALSO I think it's highly unlikely to get a lot of grants when there are many redevelopment projects going on around the state. Is a statue in South Orange going to take priority over a really substantial request from another municipality? ALSO I'm not sure if the village has received funding from a Community Development Block Grant but I believe a request has been made. (Side note: those funds are normally used for low-income housing but there is some funding available for stuff like this). SOLUTION - IMHO The Village should hold off on this project until the fundraising committee (should it still exist) raise enough funds to support a QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLAR PROJECT) - NO MONEY has come in from the family - just the "rights" to create the masterpiece. (Just to be fair, maybe raise enough money to offset the costs by at least half Furthermore... I still don't think Sloan Street is the appropriate place for it. LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD BOT MEETING this MONDAY NIGHT! If this matters to you, I certainly would bring it up. I thought it was interesting at how quickly Trustee Rosen's request was brushed off at the last meeting... that's the only reason I looked up all this information... |
   
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 299 Registered: 4-2005

| Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 2:57 am: |
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AND IT GETS EVEN BETTER!!!!!!!!! Agenda for Monday Nights BOT meeting includes: "Contract for Consulting Services for Site Improvements for the Tony Smith Sculpture" So......in addition to the aforementioned funds - there is now consultation fees to be approved for engineering and landscape architecture. Okay all done... but just saw that and thought you all may wanna know... QUESTION TO TRUSTEES: Does anyone know how much it's gonna cost for the consultant? I imagine it's not petty cash or MHD would pay for it with his pocket lint. |
   
Just The Aunt
Supporter Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 1858 Registered: 1-2004

| Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 6:05 am: |
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Bets- Sorry I'm with the others. We do not need to spend a lot of money the town doesn't have for this. South Orange has seen many famous people put down their roots here. Before the Shues moved to the 'other street' and Marshal School, after they came back from Africa they lived 4 houses from me, and went to Montrose School. I'd much rather see a statue of Lisa, Andy and even Willie then this piece of 'art.' And while we're out it how about a big shark for Roy Schroder (sp), a drum set for Max, a piano for Jerome Hines, a football for Ottis Anderson, a record for Don Kirshner and John Sher...
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Howard Levison
Citizen Username: Levisonh
Post Number: 328 Registered: 1-2004

| Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
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Sheena, I think your read the July 11th agenda - I assume it was passed. |
   
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 300 Registered: 4-2005

| Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 10:15 am: |
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Howard, It's under the conference agenda and says "general board discussion". So I was assuming that issue would be discussed. |