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Spitz
Supporter
Username: Doublea
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 7:20 am: | 
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There's live coverage of a police chase on Channel 7. |
tupperjo
Citizen
Username: Tupperjo
Post Number: 154
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 8:31 am: |
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Good news, it took a little over 30 minutes, but the 2 thugs in the stolen Jeep Liberty were caught in Branch Brook Park and brought to the Essex Cty Jail.
The guy was some driver though, he did not hit one thing while running through all the towns. He went through Newark, East Orange, Orange, on to Rt. 21 and exited off in Bellevile and then worked his way back into Newark and under the Colonade Apt's, and then into Branchbrook Park.
Congratulations to the Newark Police and State Troopers for controlling a situation and getting the guys in the end without anyone getting hurt. Also "job well done" to all the news helicopters who aided in the chase.
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TomD
Citizen
Username: Tomd
Post Number: 153
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 8:55 am: |
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Good to see the east cost getting in on the whole televised car chase=news ratings movement. Why should California have a monopoly on televised police chases? |
NORA
Citizen
Username: Norav
Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 9:39 am: |
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It looked like he may have been in South Orange at one point. I thought I saw Seton Hall from one of the Helicopters |
NORA
Citizen
Username: Norav
Post Number: 79
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 9:51 am: |
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http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/traffic/wabc_081705_newarkpolicechaseAM.html# |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1378
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:00 am: |
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The chopper pilots did an amazing job. I thought it interesting that the state police chopper(s) were not on the scene until almost the end.
I did hear them say they thought the car was in SO as well.
Hope they throw the book at those guys for the danger they placed all those people in across ~5 towns.
Pete |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 7130
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:05 am: |
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I hope they throw a whole shelf of books at them. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 326
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
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NORA thanks for the link. |
NORA
Citizen
Username: Norav
Post Number: 80
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:14 am: |
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glad it worked |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 4985
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 1:22 pm: |
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I watched the whole thing from beginning to end (and was quite late to work). The driving was incredible. Those guys are lucky that the cameras were on them; otherwise, they might have had the crap beat out of them.
Now, I am not one for police brutality, but after watching all the close calls (one pedestrian, what looked like an oil tanker, etc.) on residential streets, I have to say that they deserve a good beating. |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 188
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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It's sad that the police have to worry more about the rights of the criminal then responding to the needs of victims.
How come twenty years ago we didn't cry when the cops beat the snot out of a burglar or a car thief, and now we want the cops to make sure he gets three square meals, air conditioning in jail, access to expensive and free medical care, and a free lawyer, who you or I probably couldn't afford to retain...
THE SYSTEM IS F'D UP! |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 4988
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 5:14 pm: |
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OG- I think my objection is that very few crimes call for having the suspect beaten up. Also, it is a question of evidence. IMHO, too many innocent people go to jail, etc.
There is a difference between burglary and rape, murder, child abuse or car theft with a high speed chase in a residential neighborhood.
Now, when there is irrefutable proof of these types of crimes, IMHO, all bets are off. Then again, I don't think it is up to the cops to inflict punishment. Child molesters? Leave them alone in a room with a parent holding a baseball bat. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 394
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 5:31 pm: |
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Put 'em in a cell with a long hose on 'em!
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Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 190
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 9:05 pm: |
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I don't think too many innocent people go to jail...I think there is a good reason most are in Jail and prisons...Most are frequent flyers...rarely is a choire boy singled out by law enforcement and takes the fall for something someone else did...If someone goes in for something they didn't do, there was probably a reason the police were looking at him... |
Richard
Citizen
Username: Rikky
Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:30 pm: |
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Just because the car jackers didn't harm anyone doesn't mean they shouldn't be given a fitting beating. What if they did kill someone? What if a mother was walking her baby down the street and these maniacs ran them over?
I'm sorry but these two punks deserve a good caning, plain and simple. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 384
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 12:15 am: |
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OMG RICHARD??!!! R U 4 REAL?
(GULP)... Yikes
Do you remember what happened with the cops in LA?
The Justice System will prevail... it's not the job of law enforcement to beat a suspect after he no longer poses a threat...
Yikes again!!!!
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Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
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Sheena, Sorry to say but the justice system doesn't alays prevail. Infact in essex co it (IMO) usualy fails us. People that get caught for crimes such as this thread are back on the street in no time-most of the time the culprits are between 15 and 17 yrs old. It's well known that in this area you pretty much have to run over a group of nuns to get into any trouble.
On the other hand i in no way think cops should be jacking people up left and right, O & G has a point, 20 years ago the public respected the police, when they brought a 15 yr old kid for something the parents were grateful (& BTW dished out their own punishment) now they wanna know why the police harassed their kid! Criminals today are empowered by knowing how society has chamged, they know certain folks are standing by with camera in had waiting to catch a public employee in (what they assume) some type of illegal act. O & G is right, bad guys have rights, but it seems like they have all the rights, the same guy who would put a gun to your face (and have no problem pulling the trigger BTW) has to be treated like gold when he gets caught. to me there's an imbalance there.
BTW Sheena, thanks for your thanks  (email) |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 193
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 12:21 pm: |
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Sheena, Your comparing actual criminal act of police brutality in LA where they just didn't stop, too giving a(lack of a better term) a beat down to a street thug. But carjackingGangMembers who point guns at the police are people too I guess? |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 717
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 1:28 pm: |
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Well, in this country, yes. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 766
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 3:14 pm: |
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I've been biting my tongue about this 'cuz I don't like to get into controversy on MOL, but gotta say I'm appalled by the number of posts advocating use of excess force by police. Wow, right here on MOL.
Punishment is for the courts, after trial (important concept). The police (bless them) get to defend themselves and use enough force to apprehend, anything beyond that totally un-American IMO.
(ducking for cover)
MC |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 194
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 9:13 am: |
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Not all of us are liberal criminal huggers on MOL...Im not supporting excessive violence, but its like walking a dog, you need to give a corrective leash pull every now and again.
Obviously the criminal justice system in Essex County is broken and court intervention isn't detering criminal acts...In fact the County can't even prosecute many serious violent crimes because of witness intimidation...Criminals have no rules, and the police have too many. Im not losing any sleep if the police rough up someone who just car jacked a car with a baby in the backseat and then while in flight pointed a gun(which could have KILLED someone if fired) at the police. |
Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 718
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 10:26 am: |
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Problem: the court system is broken.
Call me crazy, but if I had a problem, I'd try to fix it instead of compensating for it in another area. If there are problems with the courts, they should be fixed (and if you feel so strongly, I hope you're doing something about it other than typing here). but in the meantime, don't compensate with a breach of civil rights. Remember the Constitution? The courts get to punish the criminals.
Yes, I know the criminal likely violated someone else's civil rights. But that's the whole reason that they're being hauled in, and they'd deserve it.
I expect police to use all due force to apprehend a suspect. Point a gun at the police? Expect and deserve a bullet. But once a suspect is in custody, no further force is required or permissible by law. Saying otherwise is essentially giving the police permission to break the same laws that the criminals do. Criminals do have rules; the fact that they break them is what separates the criminals from the citizens and the police. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 846
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 1:42 pm: |
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O & G- The problem is that cops who use excessive force end up in jail longer than the criminals they arrest, who are back out robbing again while the remaining cops, demoralized by the fate of their peers, lay down and give up for fear of being betrayed by the system they served.
It isn't worth it for cops to dish out a few lumps, no matter how deserving their suspects are. It only removes more cops from the quotient. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 390
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
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Touche Albatross! Your argument analysis gave me goose-bumps and I couldn't agree more!
I heard there is a vacancy on the Supreme Court, think it over, lol. |
Richard
Citizen
Username: Rikky
Post Number: 20
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 6:28 pm: |
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Sheena, you sound a bit idealistic. Nothing wrong with that, but sometimes reality can intrude. For example, what if that was your baby in the back seat of that hijacked car? What if your baby was irreversibly harmed? You might sing a different tune. I've been there, and many others, and it takes a bigger person to really be able to say let the court system deal with it.
I don't have the answers, but what I do believe is the law enforcement agencies should have broader powers to do their jobs and not have to worry as much about the ACLU doing a twist job in the courts.
Sensitive subject, but I think good discourse, particularly considering the particular dynamic Essex County holds.
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Albatross
Citizen
Username: Albatross
Post Number: 719
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 12:16 am: |
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Richard - I think when we're talking about broader powers and roughing up suspects, we're talking about two different things. It's been advocated on this board that we look the other way on (if not blatantly permit?) police violence against suspects in custody.
Vis-a-vis it taking a big person to let the courts deal with it: who else is equipped to? By your own reckoning, the people affected by the crime are biased, and I'd venture to say that legal theory has long held impartiality as the crown jewel of justice. The courts, by design, are the only institution equipped to pass judgement on criminals.
What you call a 'twist job' I call a necessary part of the system. Without that constant pushing of forces against each other, there would be no balance at all in the system. Agreed: that this is not perfect either, but I'd say we get a little closer in the course of each case. |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 397
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 1:13 am: |
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Richard,
I totally see where you're coming from but I have to disagree.
The police force should always react with a proportional response.
i.e. If a criminal gets into a physical altercation with law enforcement, they [police] need to do what it takes to get said person into custody. After the assailant no longer poses a threat, it's not the place for the officer to kick him in the back of the head a couple extra times because he's a little POed.
I'm not saying let's buy these felons some pillows from Martha Stewart and ask them for tea before taken to the slammer, but common sense and basic human rights principles tell us not to harm someone who is no longer a threat to us.
I'm enjoying the little soapbox - does anyone have comment on the issue with the detainees in Guantanamo Bay? Abu Ghraib prison? Is it justified when people may have information about possible terrorist actions?
That's a gray area for me... I do aim for consistency with my logic but I'm willing to hear if anyone has a strong comment on this. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 807
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 10:17 am: |
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So what amount of beating should be meted out for the baby "irreversibly harmed"?
What if the police nab the wrong guy? Is 86 shots excessive violence?
And, torture, isn't justifiable EVER. Tough to fight terrorism when you continue to give the "evildoers" more ammunition, eh?
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Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 196
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 6:43 pm: |
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I don't think 86 shoots is excessive...just poor aim obviously. |
Old and Gray
Citizen
Username: Pastmyprime
Post Number: 197
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 6:48 pm: |
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I think in the past NJ court decisions have severly crippled law enforcement's ability to combate even the most basic of crimes.
A police officer told me one time, "we all know who the criminals are...its just a matter of time of catching them in the act, and then being lucky enough to get it to stick in court."
I at no point advocate police brutality, but I think if an officer needs to give a subject a corrective tug on the preverbial leash while being arrested, then do so, because we all know they will be released before the paperwork is dry looking for thier next victim.
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