| Author | Message | ||
     AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 849 Registered: 10-2004 |
PDG: Let me give you some personal advise. Rather than whining and complaining (which is generally my MO and I can tell you first hand it doesn't generally get you the results you desire) for Dave to do this or that for you (ie. changing thread titles at your whim). I would suggest that you hang out at Bunny's and buy Dave a few drinks. You are more likely to get the personal touch that way I'm guessing. It certainly seems to work for others on this board. I think the same strategy might work on Jamie too. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 7108 Registered: 4-1997  |
(I'm at Bunny's about once a week, so you need to get the timing exactly right. However, as you can see, it's not required.) | ||
| Pizzaz Supporter Username: Pizzaz Post Number: 2221 Registered: 11-2001  |
Alley: Come on by, you might be surprised as to who buys you a drink! The more MO (maplewoodonline) the better.....  | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 852 Registered: 10-2004 |
But we are in agreement that hanging out at Bunny's is good advice in general though. Right? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 1394 Registered: 5-2004  |
I think there are two issues here, and should be kept separate. One is the sculpture itself. Personally, I don't see this as the right time to spend the money on it. I like it in concept but, with all the money being pissed down the drain by our town, I don't think it is fiscally responsible to do this now. The other is the location of it. As others have said, I don't think the planned location makes any sense. A sculpture this large needs some open space around it to appreciate it, IMHO. As Dave (I believe) pointed out, sculptures like this may appear completely differently based on the viewing angle. Were it to be location like a park, it could be viewed from four sides. However the location selected will severely restrict the viewing angles for it. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 853 Registered: 10-2004 |
Pizzaz, I've been there but didn't meet anyone there. I generally prefer having my Bunny's 'za delivered to my home. I find it makes for a good movie night in front of the telly. Bunnies and Tivo -- perfect together. I am a beer snob and like my beer micro-brewed and generally dark and sweet. | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 500 Registered: 8-2004 |
Stuart- You ask us to keep the issues separate. In response to such: (a) the aesthetics of this sculpture; Response: It's ugly. (b) how are we going to pay for it. Response: We shouldn't have to pay andything. If it's a gift, it's a gift. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2004 |
Dave, thanks for the name change - not quite what I had in mind, but serves the purpose better. You are a gentleman AND a scholar. (And I'd most happily buy you a beer at Bunny's, but you'd have to be on the "other" side where I go w/my noisy kids to avoid the smoke and count the multitude of bunnys!) | ||
| Spitz Supporter Username: Doublea Post Number: 1245 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hi Sheena - I've gone fishin'. You're a gem - keep up the good work. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 2091 Registered: 1-2004  |
Pdg You pay a sitter $15? How old are you children? | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 357 Registered: 4-2005  |
Welcome Back Spitz... I was thinking you've been MIA for a while (I was beginning to miss you...) -wanna help circulate a petition?  | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 109 Registered: 5-2004 |
JTA, they are 4 & 6 (& they're awesome kids, imo!). I try to pay $10/hr, but have been forced to cough up $15 for the expensive sitter we know when stuck! Actively searching for another on MOL classifieds willing to commit to every-other-Sat. night for a few hours - interested? | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 2095 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hmmm, I might but there are two small problems. I've been getting at least $12 an hour for more then 12 years. Families are willing to pay that because they know I'm responsible, and won't blow them off at the last minute. Plus I'm a little older then your average high school or college student. Some of the other advantages are I own my own car, I don't have a curfew, I'm willing to sit much later then your average teenage, I've been willing to arrive at 5am! I'm actually on 'baby watch' now for someone I sat for regularly last year. Which means if she goes into labor in the middle of the night she's going to call me to stay with her other kids. I've also been know to sit at the last minute when a family runs into a problem with a sick child or last minute situation. But the other problem is I usually won't watch children under the age of 6. Due to a serious auto accident a few years ago, which left me with a limp, it's difficult for me to chase after smaller children. Nor can I pick them up to carry them. However, there are times I've made exceptions with the age thing. It depends on the parents comfort level with me, and my feeling comfortable the children's safety wouldn't be compromised. I couldn' believe it a few years ago one woman tried to talk me into watching her infant child. 'Uh, hellooooo! Didn't you hear what I just said? I told you I have trouble picking up babies!' 'Oh that's okay,' says the mom. 'You'll only have to pick her up if she cries.' I finally just hung up on the lady. I currently sit for several MOL people. If they want to PL you about me, they can. If you want to go to the BOT meetings maybe we can work something out. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 359 Registered: 4-2005 |
Pdg - kids are never to young to join the political process - bring them to the BOT meetings  I was watching CNN at the age of 6 (but I highly advise against that, lol). | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 110 Registered: 5-2004 |
Thanks JTA - I'll send you a private message about this later today. Now to display my ignorance - why do people write "PL" when I assume they mean send a Private Message? What's the PL stand for? Sheena - You don't want to see my kids up past 8pm - if I took them to the BOT meetings we'd quickly have a new village ordinance against bringing kids to the meetings! However, I feel they are getting a basic understanding of politics by watching nature shows about wild animals. Sorry for the thread drift.... | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 358 Registered: 1-2004  |
Private Line | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 120 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hi Mr. L! Care to share your thoughts on the proposed sculpture? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 2671 Registered: 5-2001  |
More importantly, I'd like to know where Mark & Eric stand. (since, unfortunately, Howard cannot vote) If I understand Mark's comments, he sounds skeptical of Calabrese's estimates of the cost, but yet, seems to be willing to have taxpayer money pay for it. I know Eric went to a fundraiser for the statue a long time ago, so I'm sure he supports its existence, but I don't know if he feels it should be done at taxpayer expense? | ||
| Howard Levison Citizen Username: Levisonh Post Number: 367 Registered: 1-2004 |
I think it appropriate that the town recognize accomplished residents no matter what the field. Though it should be transparent through public debate and dialogue with consensus on displaying or performance of representative work(s). My personal opinion on the placement would be a location other than the one proposed (it is my sense of dimensionality (huge) and time period (modern) as in relationship with the RR Station and Fire House). I also feel that there needs to be full disclosure of what the real cost will be to the Township. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 135 Registered: 6-2005 |
Can someone tell me whose idea it was anyway to locate this sculpture in a spot that was already improved with the gazebo and fountain? Its ludicrous to have to spend money to tear down something which was just done. Maybe we should propose locating it next to village hall in the VP's parking spot so that anytime someone goes to village hall to pay their taxes they will be reminded of how money in this town is spent. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 363 Registered: 4-2005 |
I believe there was a "committee" that made recommendations. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 137 Registered: 6-2005 |
Sheena- Who was on this committee? Do you know? | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 2672 Registered: 5-2001 |
There was also a "committee" that recommended the Trustees pay themselves with a "stipend" and a pension. However, when the discussion was opened to the public, the majority of the public spoke against it. The majority of Trustees ignored the public and did what they wanted anyway. | ||
| Dust Buster Citizen Username: Coyote Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2005 |
The Trustees should only get paid from the net earnings from SOPAC. Any monies for the statue should come from the net earnings from SOPAC. | ||
| jayjay Citizen Username: Jayjayp Post Number: 142 Registered: 6-2005 |
I have very little confidence in the artistic sensibilities of the VP and BOT. I am sure they were not voted in as patrons of the arts. And I certainly don't want them spending my tax dollars on what they regard as art. If they were truly sensitive to art in the village, let them start with the following: 1. Work to preserve the natural beauty of the trees and parks. 2. Put in place some ordinances that work to preserve the architectural heritage of the housing stock. 3. Restore the Baird Center and the Town Hall. (The insides of both places are hideous.) 4. Set some standards for storefronts. (With professional guidance, please.) After all of this, then we can discuss sculpture. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 131 Registered: 5-2004 |
I totally agree with you JJ!!! I'd also add to your list - Finish the firehouse already so we can stop paying $3K/month rent for the trailers our Bravest have been stuffed into for YEARS! (How many years has it been, MRosner? Any idea of the total rent paid to date?) But back to the sculpture - instead of just griping on MOL, I've decided to send a letter to our Village President and copy the trustees. (Which isn't as easy as it should be - the village website does not have the mailing address listed anywhere that I could find! Which is 101 South Orange Ave, if you're wondering.) I encourage others who are concerned about this project's location and/or funding by taxpayer dollars to also write a letter! | ||
| AntoninaKC Citizen Username: Antoninakc Post Number: 73 Registered: 5-2005  |
Thats the spirit, Pdg- writing actual letters to the towns government is a much better way to get your point across than just posting on MOL about it. good job | ||
| steel Citizen Username: Steel Post Number: 741 Registered: 2-2002 |
I think that some of you should not let your anger over other laxed public building and aesthetics projects in S.O. cloud your judgment of the opportunity here. Whether you have heard of, care about or even don't like the work of Tony Smith he is absolutely and positively considered to be of the highest order and influence of 20th century sculptors by all such grand pooh-bah authorities who collectively deem such things. As to value and taxes, I think many of you are not aware of, or if so do not deserve the financial bargain that is available here. If you were to go to auction you could not obtain a Tony Smith piece created in INCHES for the price of the monumental work which his widow and the grace of others has made available to the fine town of South Orange to add to the stature and status of it's own image and as testament of a finely enlightened and appreciative citizenry. Instead some of you insist that you would not even consider it unless it is utterly free, (which speaks what of your involvement?) Choosing to pay at least some small measure for such a work is precisely what speaks in part for the potentially exemplary character of South Orange. You should choose so and here's why: Tony Smith happens to be from your town and the display of one of his works sheds light on the possibility that persons of such magnitude and influence can arise from there. If that means so little to some of you then so be it but bear in mind that the bargain cost, as much of a bargain as it is and even more so when divided up is tiny while the value is a great collective one. Is it what you might personally want on your property? -Perhaps not. Can your kids play on it? No, playgrounds are elsewhere. -But there is a collective value in a town saying "great things have come from this place just possibly because it is a great place to be". I say get the sculpture while you can and THEN deal with the more pedantic matters, -not the other way around. Everybody has a friggin' fountain. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 889 Registered: 10-2004 |
and a frigging ugly gazebo for that matter. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 7121 Registered: 4-1997 |
…with a huge, ugly "Conserve Water" sign nailed on it as if a gazebo were the only possible place to put such signage. | ||
| AlleyGater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 893 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hey it's possible to hang a conserve water sign on a giant metal sculpture too. Just so you know. | ||
| Grspring Citizen Username: Grspring Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2004 |
It seems that a small number of people are debating a very large expenditure for this statue. Sice the majority of the town is not a part of MOL, I agree with Sheena a petition (town survey) is the way to go. Spock: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 139 Registered: 5-2004 |
A petition isn't a BAD idea, for in getting signatures it will help to spread the word to fellow taxpayers who are not aware of this topic. However, to ensure your views are made known, write a letter to our Village President, Bill Calabrese. In my letter I requested that the township publish all the details of the sculpture project in the News-Record, The GasLight and on the village website and that the taxpayers be asked for feedback on the proposed use of tax dollars and public property. If the township only hears from the people strongly supporting the location and freely spending our tax dollars, they will think this is something most residents want. And if it IS something most residents truly do want, then so be it. Personally, I think most people wouldn't approve it and just are unaware, which is just not right. Write him at - South Orange Village - Town Hall 101 South Orange Avenue South Orange, NJ 07079 and ask him to circulate a copy of your letter to all the trustees. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 372 Registered: 4-2005 |
Alright - this bad boy petition will be done by Wednesday and I'll get it on MOL somehow. Pdg - I gotta see this letter! What'd ya say? Tell me you included something about the location too! And while there's still pending debate on "trustee email accessibility" - you can send an email to the village clerk and she can distribute it to the trustees. | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 373 Registered: 4-2005 |
ANDDDD - There's very pretty places at the Baird Center to put this statue... I'm gonna go look around town this weekend and take pictures with my digital of "open spaces" that I think would be more appropriate. You can agree or disagree with me... doesn't matter - just something to think about. | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 141 Registered: 5-2004 |
Sheena - Will send you the letter text by PL (and anyone else who wants it, send me a message.) | ||
| Sheena Collum SHU Citizen Username: Sheena_collum Post Number: 376 Registered: 4-2005 |
Pdg - you rock my socks!!!! That letter was awesome!!! Go on with your bad self!!! POST IT ON MOL! | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 149 Registered: 5-2004 |
Don't be silly Sheena  - I doubt everyone would appreciate my 2 pager to Calabrese being posted here. The letter basically summarizes all the points made in previous posts. I may, however, send something like it as a letter to the editor if the BOT doesn't publish the details of this project. The taxpayers have a right to be fully informed before their tax dollars are spent on luxury items and before something so unusual is constructed on public property. Speaking of informing SO Residents - what's the plan with your petition? I guess it will be an on-line petition. Let me know - I may include the web address in my letter to the editor. | ||
| Old and Gray Citizen Username: Pastmyprime Post Number: 185 Registered: 2-2005 |
How many cops and fireman & DPW workers would the cost of this art pay for...salary and benefits? | ||
| Pdg Citizen Username: Pdg Post Number: 152 Registered: 5-2004 |
Well, I'm not exactly sure what those fine folks make, but $440,000 divides by 4 quite nicely in my book! |
