| Author |
Message |
    
Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 625
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 3:14 pm: | 
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Mayor you handsome devil glad your back!!!! |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 404
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 5:00 pm: |
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Mayor-From experience, one should choose the largest of the punks. As you approach half of those assembled will flee. Tough guy kids generally hate being called on the carpet for their misdeeds and are scared of being confronted.
Make full eye contact with the "baddest" one and state your case. Example: "You throw this (hold evidence up). There will be snickers from the real wise asses (pay no attention). Regardless of the response, which WILL be a denial. Remind them of proper etiquette.
If/when you are "challenged" by a large group, make sure to stare right in the big guy's eyes and say "One of you comes near me, I will beat YOU (big guy) to a bloody pulp." You can use a litanny of expressions to remind them that you will not be intimidated. I find that most will sheep away. At least the offenders will know that someone is watching and could call the authorities.
Last Resort: If you are attacked, you are in trouble! So clench your teeth & swing for the fences,make lots of noise, and whip the hell out of the big one.
I do not advocate fist fighting. But it beats any cardio program out there. |
MARK CLAYTON
Citizen
Username: Bob_barker
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:11 am: |
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Mr. Foley you shoul really run for office in S.O. your idea's are great!! |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2173
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 6:01 pm: |
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Matt-
As much as I love your idea about the baseball bats, once you whack one of those sweet little boys, they'll whip out their guns and shoot you dead. And I don't mean with water guns...
My nephews want to play on the new courts, but they are too scared of the bigger kids. When my sister took them for their badges the other day they noticed there were only three kids on the courts. This was early in the morning. I told them I'd take them tomorrow morning to shoot some baskets.
Prehaps cmonty, hoops or any of the others who gave me a hard time when I shared the negative experiences my nephews had in the past with the olde courts would like to come down to protect us? We plan to go about 9am, after I feed my friend's cats.
If the bigger kids start showing up and start to try to chase my nephews off, well I'm not sure what I'll do. According to Hoops, the 'rules and etiquette' of basketball state my nephews maintain control of the courts until they no longer want to play. Ah, yeah I'll see how long that lasts.
I'll be sure to post how things went after. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1205
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 8:24 pm: |
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Just The Aunt:
You said in that other thread that some teenagers "threatened" your nephews, and I gave you a hard time for not calling the police about it. And people gave Dave a hard time for not calling the police after he was attacked with rocks (Dave suggested that to point out the accuser would only bring greater punishment on the victim, which makes me feel like I'm watching an after school special.)
I'm not trying to be a jerk, really. If I saw someone threatening you and your nephews, or throwing rocks at Dave, I'd be the first guy running in your direction to try to help out. But after I recovered from the beating we took -- since 80 vs. 2 isn't much of a fair fight (I'm a lover, not a fighter, and Dave is, well, something of a computer geek) I'd be using my one finger that wasn't broken to dial the police.
All I'm asking for is a rational response to irrational behavior. What should you do if a bunch of thugs gathering in the dark of night start throwing rocks at your head? Run, and call the cops! What do you do if big kids start trying to chase your kids off a basketball court? Give them a nasty look, and complain RIGHT THEN to the guy who runs the courts.
And, of course, call me, and we'll bust some heads together, old school. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 2328
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 8:52 pm: |
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It's very unpleasant for the residents of Vose Ave. when these b'ball players are getting to and from the court. Walking in the middle of the street with basketballs and big attitudes. The lights are movie-set bright at night. It's been an all-around negative experience. And I'm sorry to hear that Dave will no longer take that route.
That's a sad comment on the state of the village. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2177
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 8:53 pm: |
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monty-
I know you're not trying to be a jerk. And yes, they did threaten us a few years back and I didn't call the police. Got to give me credit though, after reading this thread, I did call Andy yesterday because of kids throwing rocks at my car Monday.
I'm sure they didn't target me for being me, or my nephews, and they were just throwing rocks at whoever drove by. I planned to call the police when I got home, but there were police cars and a fire tuck on my street when I arrived because of a gas leak. I figured the cops had more serious things to deal with at the time and didn't think they'd care.
I thought about posting a note about it, but remembered how that went over the last time. Then I saw Dave started this thread. I spoke with Andy and am confident if there is a problem it will be dealt with swiftly. I wasn't going to volunter to take the kids in the morning, but they asked. Recalling what you mentioned about the courts being empty in the morning, and then my sister and nephew saying it the other day, I decided if they asked fine, but there was no way I'd suggest it.
The bad thing is, I'm not able to run away if someone wanted to attack me and no matter how much I would yell for my nephews to run inside the building, they wouldn't leave me out there by myself. I think I thought of a way I might nip any problems in the bud. I told them once the bigger kids start to show up maybe they should go up to them and say something to the effect "I bet you're a really good player, right?" Or, "Hey, will you shoot some baskets with us?"
When the bigger kids say 'yes' Have my nephews ask if they'd show them how to do some cool moves! Maybe by inflating the egos of the bigger kids, they'd reconsider being mean. This will only work if my nephews are on the courts first.
If this doesn't work, well things might get ugly... Hopefully the squad won't take a half hour to respond! LOL |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2178
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 8:55 pm: |
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Bets
It's just as bad for those who live on Clark, and Meeker... |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 408
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:24 pm: |
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Matt Foley does not use baseball bats. Matt Foley uses his mind. If/when that fails, Matt Foley employs brute strength & 'ol fashion INTIMIDATION!
6'2" 250lbs. solid village hardbody tend to diffuse most hostile environs.
Wacha gonna do when Foley's 22" pythons reign down on you. C'mon Hulk-a-maniacs!! |
Lucy
Supporter
Username: Lucy
Post Number: 673
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:30 pm: |
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Matt they are running for the hills. I am sure they came to their senses. |
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 410
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:33 pm: |
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Lu Lu- are you single? |
vermontgolfer
Supporter
Username: Vermontgolfer
Post Number: 325
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:58 pm: |
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Drove by the courts tonight, luckily no rocks were thrown, but boy were there bunch of players at the courts. Guess the new courts have definetely been a huge success, let's hope a few jerks don't ruin it for everyone else. |
hariseldon
Citizen
Username: Hariseldon
Post Number: 408
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:01 pm: |
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Aquaman has it right. Rename the area "Freedom
Court" and have the rock throwers meet out
fundamentalist justice to women who drive, people who covet their neighbors wife, have sex with people of the same, opposite, or indeterminate sex, etc...They are just righteous folk.
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Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:45 am: |
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Just the Aunt, you should start a new thread and title it "I told you so!"
The courts are up and running and it seems SO has created a a rec center for the residents of Orange/E. Orange. Now there's no problem with non-so kids playing but when they take over the place what do we do? I have observed the courts for about a week now and here's the rundown:
-VERY few (if any) so kids playing
-Oh, there were two but they had their bikes stolen by two kids from orange
-fights
-the water fountain was ripped off the wall
-the kids refuse to leave even after the lights have been turned off
-don't forget about the rocks
-that genious idea of a fence allows wayward balls to fly onto mead and into traffic
-more fights
- I noticed when a police car dives by people feel the need to yell out "5-0" & "popo"
- They DO NOT listen to Mr. brady
There's more but I should've written them down!
Hey Hoops, where you at!!!
JTA, you weren't alone with your concerns. A lot of people feel the same as you do. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1208
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 12:21 pm: |
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How do you "observe" that there are "VERY few (if any) south orange kids playing?" How can you tell by looking whether someone is from South Orange or not?
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mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 2211
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 12:29 pm: |
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cmonty: I was wondering the same thing myself. I drove by the other evening and there were a handful of people playing ball.
However, we do need to make sure the courts are not used after the lights are shut off. If anyone has any problem (rocks, fights, etc) they should call the police station asap.
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Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 89
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 2:01 pm: |
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Besides actually knowing kids/people from town I interact with people/kids at the rec center. Many kids come in groups from orange or farther (as could be colaberated by residents of vose,meeker,clark etc) I know about 10 SO regulars, go by the courts around 7:30pn, note the large crowd, for arguments sake say that there's 10 so residents- that leaves us outnumberd.
Don't get me wrong the issue is not so much "outsiders" but it seems that many of the kids who are not local disregard our quality of life. Would you go to a b-ball/tennic court or pool in another town and leave your garbage on the ground? would you deface property by "tagging" you name on it with a marker? would you decide it's ok to take a piss right outside?
IMO there should be a sign up sheet, you should have to enter through the rec center and the number of non so players should be limited |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1213
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 2:33 pm: |
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Not sure why you think there's anything about the behavior that you described that has anything to do with zip code. South Orange kids do all of those things. (Actually, riders of the midtown direct do almost all of those things.) The issue is the behavior, not where the kids are from. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1008
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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How do you "observe" that there are "VERY few (if any) south orange kids playing?" How can you tell by looking whether someone is from South Orange or not?
Ditto!
I drove past one day and recognized one of my son's classmate at the courts.
As much as I love your idea about the baseball bats, once you whack one of those sweet little boys, they'll whip out their guns and shoot you dead. And I don't mean with water guns...
Now they're carrying guns. Hmmm… sounds like stereotyping. Gang-bangin ballers eh JTA? |
Sheena Collum SHU
Citizen
Username: Sheena_collum
Post Number: 409
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 4:50 pm: |
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The Village and Rec. Department has addressed this concern.
Dave - I suggest you call Andy.
P.S. It was very nice at the courts today when I went and there was a variety of different children playing (older, younger, black, white, etc) & it seemed as though they were all enjoying themselves.
Just my observation. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 472
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 5:00 pm: |
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I think we should close down the courts and make a park so that they have someplace to sell their drugs. Hahaha... just kidding.
I'm sure this will come full circle when one of these lads throws a rock at a car which turns out to be his mother's. After he sees his dead mother in the flaming car crashed into a tree, with the rock sitting on her lap, he will see the error of his ways. |
SO Refugee
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 858
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 5:45 pm: |
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Is it true that the "kids" are on the payroll for Pulte and are simply redistributing rocks from the Quarry? |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 6:16 pm: |
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Yes our kids do bad things too but I guess it's just a coincidence that the ones who get caught are mostly from out of town.
cmonty- I've already said that the sole issue is not "outsiders", but there are those who lack respect for places they don't reside in/near. for example when someone throws their fast food garbage on the ground you can ask "would you do that where you live"
phenix- just because you saw a classmate doesn't mean you saw a so resident.......ever watch where the chs students go after school?.....we can leave that one to another thread. |
longfellow
Citizen
Username: Longfellow
Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:45 pm: |
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Another voice may not make much difference, but:
putting aside Matt Foley's idiotic/ironic confrontation method, we need "real" solutions, and they can't be so expensive as to require constant supervision.
However, since someone DOES turn those lights out, why can't that person SHUT THEM DOWN whenever there's an incident reported?
e.g., rocks are thrown, the 'victim' phones or goes to office, office shuts down the lights--perhaps calls the police to clear the area as well.
VERY SOON after this ritual, the bad behavior will stop. Mostly because the serious players will discipline the clowns and miscreants.
It's very simple negative reinforcement: you act out, you lose privileges. It'll work.
***
As for who these kids are, passports are not needed for South Orange, and to be discriminatory as to residency would be onerous.
longfellow |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2198
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:32 pm: |
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Ace
Are you serious about the kids not listening to Andy? I got a different feel from what Andy told me. What happened to the water fountain and how did you determine it wasn't South Orange kids who broke it?
County, Why is it so hard for you to believe many of these kids are NOT from South Orange or Maplewood?
Phen -I was being sarcastic about pulling out the guns the same way mayor was about using the baseball bats.
Not sure when Sheena was playing on the courts but I was there this morning around 10ish with my nephews and a friends daughter. We approached the courts to play, but when the kids heard some of the things the kids playing were saying to each other they got scared and changed their mind.
Instead they decided to watch Columbia's Soccer Team practice kicking goals. While we were there we heard one of the rec staff yell over to this very large muscular guy Andy wanted someone on the courts to prevent problems.
As the man walked by me I asked if he was going to the basketball courts. He said 'Yes. I told the guy the bigger kids had scared my nephews, but since he's going to be there maybe my nephews would go back over.
Even after I explained to my nephews this nice man's going to be at the courts, they wanted no part of going back.
Longfellow-
I wish you were right about the bad behavior soon stopping. I tend to think not. Why do you think the basketball courts from other areas in South Orange and Maplewood have been removed over the years? |
talk-it-up
Citizen
Username: Talkitup
Post Number: 175
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 1:12 am: |
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Enough---
Fact, the courts are open.
Fact, the residents on Vose, Clark and Meeker, etc are once again subject to the following:
Increase in groups of young adults passing through.
Increase in litter, bottles, paper, etc.
Increase in noise, yelling, screaming up and down the street (one person actually screams, just screams.)
Increase in hanging out up and down the train track.
Increase in activityy at Mountain Station (hanging out, cars, etc at off and late hours)
Increase in drug activity in the track and station areas.
Question:
Why is this always turned into an issue referring to race and outsiders? Where ever the young adults are coming from these are the facts.
How many of you go to play on the recreational courts of our neighboring towns (and no I am not talking about Maplewood)?
Big Question:
Why is it that Orange does not have a basket ball court across the border at the Orange Park adjacent to West Montrose. Why is it Orange is not providing for their residents what South Orange so graciously provides?
If we were truely a diverse village we would not constantly using race and fear of outsiders as the easy way to defend the situation at hand.
I personally was enjoying the decrease in vandalism and such while the courts were closed.
Unfortunately that is a fact created by the players. |
Flimbro
Citizen
Username: Flimbro
Post Number: 16
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 5:11 am: |
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This is an "enlightening" thread and I've been waiting for it to break down to it's basic elements- which is the fact that unrestrained black kids are moving about freely in your midst and the thought / sight is uncomfortable for age old reasons.
It started out with one person's real concern about being accosted while traveling past the courts. A problem that would normally be solved by calling the police. Or maybe by approaching the Baird Center right away and lodging a complaint and following up on that complaint.
Once these mature suggestions were dispensed the majority of posts began to spin off into the real issue at hand which is the fear of young black men. The typical code- "outsiders" or being from East Orange or Orange- was used to describe who the offending ballplayers were and perhaps more importantly who they weren't.
Once the identity of the offenders was established, folks suggested hitting the ringleader with a bat or picking out the "baddest" one and threatening to beat him to "pulp" while another kindly informed that doing so would get you shot. Some of those posters have since suggested that they were "joking" but only after being challenged.
Well, I'm reasonably new to the area and I have questions- I haven't had any problems, yet but I'd like to know how to deal with them in advance. Here we go:
Do skateboarders from Millburn carry guns in those backpacks? Is the best way to deal with them mob violence? Do joy riding teenagers from Livingston increase drug activity? Do those weed smoking, tequila swilling Seton Hall students ever break into your house for beer money? Should I just make a pre emptive move and slash one of them with my hedge trimmer to show them who's boss?
I am your middle aged neighbor but I'm also an emissary from the "outsider" group. I grew up in Plainfield and spent my days and nights playing basketball- like all of my friends. When I stayed on the courts in Plainfield I was a 6ft, 160 lb small guard with a wicked 25 ft jumper, a crazy behind the back left hand crossover, a tenacious dunk and an honor roll student with scholarships. But when I journeyed to nearby Westfield I was transformed into a hulking 160 pound potential rapist or thief or mugger or drug dealer or who knows, maybe even a rock thrower.
Kids need supervision. Black kids and white kids. Large groups of kids need more supervision. You can't have a group of 50 kids anywhere at night, black or white and not expect noise or some trouble. If you don't want the headache scrap the court and put in a nail salon.
Diversity is not created or maintained by chirping about it in a newsletter or saying the word like a mantra whenever you get the opportunity. Diversity is something you create by accepting others into your midst without prejudging.
Two quick notes to Just The Aunt- 1.) You are a great aunt. 2.) Small kids are run off of b-ball courts by bigger kids all of the time. They're also kicked off of the swings, pushed out of the sandbox and pushed to the back of the line at the big sliding board. It's the natural order of things and has nothing at all to do with the zip code of the bigger kid. When your nephews are bigger they'll do the same thing. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 2202
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 6:47 am: |
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flim
I've already sent you a PL but I wanted to address one thing you mentioned at the end of your post I didn't notice before I sent the PL.
In reference to your comment about my nephews running little kids off the playground. No they will not do that when they get older and bigger. Want to know why? Because all of my nieces and nephews are being raised to be nice to all kids; especially kids who are smaller then them. Already they defend smaller kids who are picked on. They've also spoken out when they see children who are different being stared at or teased. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:08 am: |
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phenix- just because you saw a classmate doesn't mean you saw a so resident.......ever watch where the chs students go after school?.....we can leave that one to another thread.
Oh NO you did NOT go there!
These kids DO live in South Orange! And I KNOW their addresses.
"VERY SOON after this ritual, the bad behavior will stop. Mostly because the serious players will discipline the clowns and miscreants."
"Once these mature suggestions were dispensed the majority of posts began to spin off into the real issue at hand which is the fear of young black men. The typical code- "outsiders" or being from East Orange or Orange- was used to describe who the offending ballplayers were and perhaps more importantly who they weren't."
DITTO to both responses!
"diversity is something you create by accepting others into your midst without prejudging."
AMEN!
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cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1217
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:22 am: |
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so just checking: Has anyone called the police yet to report any incidents? What did the cops say?
Or are we all still hashing this out on a message board? Let's hope the rock throwers have an account on Maplewood Online. |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:31 am: |
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Phen- "These kids DO live in South Orange! And I KNOW their addresses."
good for you, but it doesn't change what I said, if you're saying there's no problem with non so/mpl kids attending chs youshouldn't go there.
it's not about prejudging, it's about dealing with the facts/incidents after they occur. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1218
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:34 am: |
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Flimbro: Hang around these boards, and you'll find countless threads about people getting nervous every time kids gather in any number, whether it's at the basketball courts, in Grove park after graduation, on the Maplewood playground, outside the Maplewood movie theater. But what you'll quickly realize is that these threads all have a common thread themselves: The gatherings in question generally involve black kids, not white kids. That rarely comes out in the first dozen posts, but it comes out eventually. Then after someone points that out, the defenses go up. What? Race? I never mentioned race! I'm not a racist! Race has nothing to do with it! I know black people! And so on.
And yet, time and again, when people talk about unruly groups gathering, it's not the baggy pants wearing, foul mouthed, smelling-of-dad's-liquor-cabinet prep school kids I see hanging out all over town (who fondly remind me of myself at that age) that people ever mention. It is, instead, the "others," the outsiders, the people from the next town over who are coming into OUR town, who don't respect OUR values, who are causing all the trouble.
Fear is a powerful thing.
But anyway, back to the topic at hand. About these people breaking the law at Baird -- throwing rocks, vandalizing your property, and the like. What did the police say when you called to tell them about it?
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Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1012
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:50 am: |
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THANK YOU CMONTY!
As usual, you are RIGHT ON TARGET!!! |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 473
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 2:28 pm: |
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cmontyburns
You may be right about grove park, I don't know, because I wasn't there. I don't think those others are great examples. The threads about maplewood village had police involved and the gatherings at the courts have people repeatedly throwing rocks. The common thread in these two is not race, but (searching for the right word) maybe criminal activity. I don't know what happened in Maplewood village, only that police had to be called in, and throwing rocks is assalt.
I don't care what color the person who throws the rock is, I just don't want to get hit by it. This really has nothing at all to do with race, but is a problem that needs to be fixed. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1223
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 3:14 pm: |
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Mayor:
I'm not talking about people throwing rocks. I was talking about comments to the effect of, "I can tell the troublemakers aren't from South Orange just by looking at them." Code words.
People who vandalize property and throw rocks are breaking the law, and should be dealt with by the police.
Separately, there's nothing wrong with admitting that you feel intimidated when groups of large black kids gather. Pretending that you don't, or that "race has nothing to do with it," is silly. (Note that I'm using the general "you" here to apply to wide swatch of residents of Maplewood/South Orange.) |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 474
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 4:27 pm: |
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cmonty,
African American is more PC. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1224
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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I'm more of a Mac guy, sorry.
(By the way... I meant to say "large groups" in my post up there, not "groups of large"...)
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monster
Supporter
Username: Monster
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 9:07 pm: |
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oh screw it, who really cares where they are from. get together and pick a few out, and beat them up a little bit, the others will get in line soon enough, it works every time.
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