| Author |
Message |
    
Judi W.
Citizen
Username: Judiwein
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 8:10 pm: | 
|
We adopted 2 adorable puppies (lab-terrior sisters) from JAC two months ago. They are now 6 months old. They are well behaved (as far as puppies go), however still have problems with housetraining. They were paper trained in a few days but haven't been able to transfer this to going outside. They have no problems when locked in the kitchen (where they sleep), but have accidents when let out of this room. They rarely eliminate on walks, and typically view the backyard as a place to romp and play. They also copy each other - so if one has an accident, the other will follow in a matter of minutes. Disciplining is hard because we're never quite sure who had the accident, so we discipline both and they just look confused. We are long time dog owners and have never had this problem before (granted previous dogs were quite bright and caught on immediately). We're just not sure how to approach the problem when training 2 puppies. Any suggestions from people who have raised 2 puppies at the same time is greatly needed!!! |
Cubby
Citizen
Username: Cubby
Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 8:44 pm: |
|
I have never raised 2 puppies . I have a 9 month old. This is what I have read everyplace and been told in puppy kindergarten:
1. There is no point in disciplining a puppy for having an accident because it is really the owner's fault for not supervising closely enough, not the puppy's. Also, if you discipline a puppy who has had an accident who is now playing, the puppy will think that playing is bad.
2. From everything I have read and heard, paper training teaches dogs to go inside, rather than outside.
Have you tried crate training? Perhaps, we are just lucky, but we crated our puppy from the beginning and he has had very few accidents since we have had him. I don't know how hard it would be to start crate training at this point, but you might want to consider it. Also, St. Hubert's has a great puppy kindergarten. They might be able to help. Good luck. |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 2875
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 9:44 pm: |
|
This worked for me (but my guy was about 14 weeks old when we got him; not sure how it will work on 6 month olds).
Leash them to you and have them walk around the house with you everywhere you go. Pay attention to the signs they may be giving you (or they may not). If they start to pee or poop, immediately take them outside to finish and lavish praise and give cookies. Take them out frequently, and if nature takes its course, lavish humongous amounts of praise and cookies on them. When you are not home with them, keep them crated or in your kitchen (with no newspapers down) since they do not mess there, and let them out as soon as you get home. If you need to, hire a dog walker during the day. Most importantly, especially for sensitive dogs like labs, do not discipline them harshly.
St. Huberts is wonderful, by the way, for a lot more than just puppy kindergarten. The people who train dogs there really know their stuff and absolutely love dogs, so you cannot go wrong talking to them. Or to your vet.
Good luck.
|
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 2676
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 9:58 pm: |
|
I HIGHLY recommend the book "How to Raise a Puppy You Can Live With." I don't think it really makes a difference whether you're training one puppy or two. Crate training can make a huge difference in the quality of life for you and your puppies and I strongly suggest you do it, particularly since you have two to deal with. Remember, puppies are a lot like babies in that they really need to be on a regular, predictable schedule. If I recall correctly (and it's been quite a few years since my dog was a puppy) it goes something like this: Nap in the crate, wake up and go immediately outside (no stops along the way, may be even better to carry them) to a place where you want the dog to go, and hopefully they pee or poop, for which they get much praise. Back inside for a meal and/or some playtime, tire them out, put them back in the crate for another nap, and then start the process all over again.
They'll get the idea pretty quickly about where they're supposed to be going once they've had a few successes outside. And when they're inside, happily snuggled in their "den" (crate), they won't be able to make mistakes they might get in trouble for, and your shoes and furniture will be safe.
One of the most important aspects of crate training is that you must always make the crate a happy, positive place for puppy to be. Give them treats to reinforce how wonderful it is to be in there. Don't ever use the crate to punish the dog.
Good luck. Personally, I think you might be a bit crazy taking on two puppies at once, but it sounds like it could be some fun too. 
Oh, and I also highly recommend St. Hubert's obedience training classes. |
mimi
Citizen
Username: Mimi
Post Number: 194
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:44 pm: |
|
judi,
we crate-trained our two using a similar technique to the one that meand (and others) described. i agree that training 2 is the same as training one. just requires more diligence on your part in the beginning. took about 2 weeks for ours to be almost totally reliable. it was really about us being super consistent. tough for a short while but well worth it in the long run.
a few additional thoughts:
food and water should be provided on a regular schedule so that you know exactly when they need to go.
a strong, firm 'no' really works only when you catch one of them in the process. if you can, halt the flow, pick them up, carry outside, and encourage to finish.
another tip regarding walks is that you take them on the same route for the same short amount of time. (in our house, an elimination walk isn't the same as a fun/exercise walk.) if they don't go the first time, come back in the house and don't let them out of your sight. if they signal a need to go, take them out again. same route. same short amount of time. (and if they don't signal, take them out again anyway after about 15-30 minutes since you know they need to go because they're on a set feeding schedule.)
another tip regarding the back yard: only use it as their place of elimination if you can watch them and, thus, praise them when they go. if they go and you can't immediately reinforce the behavior, it doesn't help with training.
i think our schedule went somthing like this at 6 months:
6 am wake, walk
6:15 am feed, walk again (crazy at first, but helps establish a link between eating and going.)
6:30 water, play until tired and then crate for nap
10:30 walk
10:45 water, play, crate for nap
3:45 walk
4 feed
4:15 walk, water, play, crate for nap
7:15 walk and water, play, crate for nap
10:00 walk, play crate
just typing this reminds me of how crazy initial training is. as soon as we could trust them to eat first and then eliminate, we were able to ditch those 2 prefeeding walks. i'm just glad it doesn't take long.
good luck.
|
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 2641
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 7:48 am: |
|
One added thing for the crate training advice...if you take them out to the specified "spot" and they don't do anything, they go back in the crate for maybe 15 min. Then back out. Keep repeating until pups finally have to go. Might be easier to do this one dog at a time.
FYI...there is a big difference in training 2 dogs at a time rather than 1. My trainer said you really have to train one at a time, and then once they get the command or whatever you train them together. Takes triple the time and energy. I admire your fortitude! Good luck! |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2122
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 8:27 am: |
|
It sounds like you’re using the Kitchen as the “Crate” so I’d follow the advice above. If the pooches don’t go to the bathroom when they’re outside, put them back in the kitchen for a while. Parker had to pee before he got to play, and if you’re turning them loose in the back yard, it may make sense to walk them on a leash until they go, then cut them loose to play.
|
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10325
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 8:34 am: |
|
I agree with Brett. Using doggie logic they view the rest of the house as outdoors, since they don't mess their home space, the kitchen. Makes perfect sense to a puppy!!
|
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 2682
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 8:34 am: |
|
The kitchen can not be used as a crate because there is way too much space. The idea behind the crate is that the puppy(ies) will have just enough space to stand up, turn around and lie down comfortably. Any more than that, and they will have enough room to "eliminate" in one corner, and move away from it and lie down happily somewhere else. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2124
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 8:37 am: |
|
"They have no problems when locked in the kitchen (where they sleep), but have accidents when let out of this room."
|
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 518
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 9:25 am: |
|
meand is correct in theory...but each dog is different to a degree. maybe judi says they have no problems in the kitchen because an occasional accident isn't a big deal in the room she is using to keep them...ie, linoleum, tile, etc. personally, i can't believe that a puppy or 2 gated into a kitchen aren't ever eliminating in such a large space. i'm getting my new puppy on saturday and i plan on using the crating method exactly as meand describes. it worked perfectly for my first dog. |
Judi W.
Citizen
Username: Judiwein
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 9:31 am: |
|
Thanks so much everyone!!! Yes, I think the kitchen does serve as our crate as they've never (not even once)}had an accident here. They are now 40 lbs each and would go crazy if put in separate crates. The kitchen works well for them. I agree, it's definitely our problem, not the puppies. We haven't been that consistent and must get on a schedule. Out of laziness I'll let them in the backyard instead of taking them for a walk - so it makes sense that they're not getting the routine since there really isn't one. Mimi, we'll try the one that you outline. Raising two is definitely different than raising one. It's a lot more work in some regards, but they get into a lot less trouble because they have each other to play with. They'll play tug of war, chase and wrestle each other endlessly. So they require less "play time" attention from us. We've also heard that we have to train them separately, and plan to start formal training soon. They initially became quite anxious when separated from each other, and now are starting to be ok apart for short periods of time. Thanks again everyone for the advice. I'll keep you posted! |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2125
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 9:32 am: |
|
I wouldn’t suggest starting with the kitchen, but the dogs are now 6 months old. Parker is 5 months old and is basically trained, no accidents in the last month. So they have most likely figured out that the Kitchen is the den (there are two of them) and not to pee there.
I’m also not sure that separating these dogs into two crates now is wise; I’m assuming they have been sleeping together for 6 months, and the change would be drastic for them. So if their not peeing in the kitchen, its serving the purpose of the crate.
|
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 2683
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
|
I wasn't suggesting seperate crates, but have no experience with 2 in one crate. I can't imagine it's not possible, but you'd really have to check with the "experts" on that. Again, I suggest St. Hubert's, they are a great resource and I'm sure they'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. |
Shawna
Citizen
Username: Lucies_mom
Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 10:44 am: |
|
whoa- 2 is alot to take on at once. I don't think one person can do it, because you have to watch both of them and physically pick the puppy up as it is going to let it know it needs to go outside. 40 lbs ea! Holy Cow!
moving soiled paper outside may help and give the puppies a hint as to where the proper place to go is.
Lucie was trained to go outside in 3 days after we tried the paper training thing. She just shredded all the paper. We won't ever do the paper thing again.
It took round the clock watching and prompt action when we saw her sniffing, but she learned quickly. We also made sure that if she hadn't been out in a couple hours to let her have some time outside.. always accompanied so we could priase her when she went outside.
it may help to borrow an older dog that can help train the girls. Lucie had an older best friend that would visit often. He helped immensely as he was a very obedient, even to me, and shoved her around a bit when she was acting up.
I hope you are cleaning with Nature's Miracle or vinegar solution. The slightest smell of an accident can cause recurring episodes in and around the same place.
Since you have had dogs before, I am guessing you already know this.
It's going to be tough, but I wish you the best. |
Joan Auer
Citizen
Username: Joan
Post Number: 134
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
|
We were having a lot of trouble training our puppy until we consistently gave her a biscuit after each time she went outside and peed. We'd take her out to the same spot in the back and say "go potty" repeatedly. If she did, she got the biscuit, if not, we just took her back in. She figured it all out pretty quickly once we started the biscuit thing. |
Judi W.
Citizen
Username: Judiwein
Post Number: 13
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 7:41 pm: |
|
Hi all. Well we're making some progress. We have them on a routine of walk (pee) and backyard (one at a time for poop). When they've both accomplished this, they can play in the backyard. They seem to be getting it, with only 2 accidents in 3 days. They're also spending more time in the kitchen (the 'crate'), which helps provide them some boundaries and puts us in control. I've just signed them up for puppy training at St. Huberts where my husband and I will each take one dog on different days. We've thought of borrowing an older dog as an example, and will do this if needed. Our teenage boys rarely seem to need us anymore, so I guess this is the reason for 2 puppies! Thanks again for all the advice. |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page