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Zet
Citizen
Username: Zet
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 10:53 am: | 
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Is it odd that a house listed for sale by a real estate agency does not have a seller’s disclosure? The explanation I got was that the owner does not speak English and could not fill one out. From what I found out the owner is an empty nester, kids long gone but the house looks well maintained with no visible major issues. I am a first-time home buyer so I don’t have that much experience but each house I saw previously had a seller’s disclosure ready. Now I know I would do the home inspection before closing but I am just wondering whether the lack of disclosure is suspicious or this just happens.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1739
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
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They have to provide you with a seller's disclosure. Any real estate agent that is trying to stall you from getting one is hiding something.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10579
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 11:03 am: |
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The disclosure is required by NJ law. |
galileo
Citizen
Username: Galileo
Post Number: 220
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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The seller's disclosure is not the law.It's definitely beneficial to buyer and seller but some real estate companies and some sellers don't do it. |
Jennifer Pickett
Citizen
Username: Jpickett
Post Number: 160
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 12:46 pm: |
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I think it is suspicious. If you don't have one, you have to rely on your home inspector to catch everything (ha!), and have no important info for your homeowners ins. (age of plumbing, when the roof was last replaced, etc.) Getting a translator can't be that hard. It's in the best interest of both parties. Most problems don't present themselves during the few hours of a home inspection. |
Tom N
Citizen
Username: Tjn
Post Number: 59
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 12:56 pm: |
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If the owner doesn't speak English, how are they communicating with their realtor? Sounds suspicious to me. |
Zet
Citizen
Username: Zet
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 1:40 pm: |
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Thanks for such quick replies.
Jennifer: That was my concern that the home inspector would obviously not know the history of the house.
Tom N: My thought exactly. If they were able to list the house, there had to be a common language or a translator and they should have been able to complete all the paperwork. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12385
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 1:43 pm: |
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So yeah, it's suspicious enough that you should not consider this house any longer. If they don't go through an effort to show they have nothing to hide, it's safe to assume that there is something to hide.
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emmie
Supporter
Username: Emmie
Post Number: 690
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 5:15 pm: |
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I am with Tom, I would never buy a house without the seller's disclosure. |
bklyntonj
Citizen
Username: Bklyntonj
Post Number: 589
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 5:31 pm: |
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Tell them you want the house and you're willing to put down X amount of dollars once they produce a valid seller's disclosure.
Believe me, unless this house is a steal, you'll get it. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10590
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 5:48 pm: |
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Galileo, I think you are correct. While the state Consumers Affair Department specifies the format, they don't seem to require it. Every Realtor I have talked to makes it sound like it is a state law. |
Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 49
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 7:10 pm: |
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As a realtor, I can tell you that it is NOT required by state law to have a seller's disclosure. And Bob K is right, the CAD only specifices the format. I will tell you that the broker that I work for will NOT allow us to list a house without a seller's disclosure, however plenty do.
I have represented plenty of buyers who have bought homes without a seller's disclosure. It does raise a red flag--except in instances where it is an Estate Sale--but even then, the disclosure allows for the executor's signature that says that they have no knowledge.
All that being said--a thorough home inspection will uncover most of what there is to be concerned about. Most sellers look at the disclosure as an opportunity to disclose something and not have to negotiate further about that specific item during a home inspection because the assumption is that the buyer makes an offer and signs the seller's disclosure indicating that they read it and acknowledges all that was disclosed while making that offer.
As to whether to persue or not, consult with your agent and your attorney about the risks involved... there are things that both can suggest that might make you more comfortable in making an offer. Lastly, don't forget that your contract will have an inspection contingency to protect you. |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1553
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 8:45 pm: |
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Run for the hills.....
Not only does lack of Disclosure raise red flags, the excuse is absolutely ridiculous.
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Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 50
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 - 9:56 pm: |
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Run for the hills.....
What exactly will Zet be running from? Is there a specific experience with a lack of a Seller's Disclosure that you were involved in?
If you have interest in the house, as I suggested above, discuss the risks with your real estate attorney and your agent (who presumably has dealt with this before) who are best to address this with you--and not likely to give you alarmist advice. Buying a house for the first time is stressful enough--you need information in order to make informed decisions--not freak you out more. No Sellers Disclosures is not NECESSARILY a reason to "run for the hills"...you will make the decision that you are most comfortable with AFTER speaking with those that are best equipped to advise you. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1043
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 4:35 pm: |
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IMO - If you're really interested in the house, firmly request a disclosure. If none is forthcoming, I would be very very cautious (ie, have $xx,000 on hand to fix whatever might come up).
Verbal assurances by the agent are worth the paper they're written on; and unless you have specifically retained a buyer's agent to represent you, I believe the person showing you the house is legally working for the seller. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1050
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 5:13 pm: |
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Get a good, licensed home inspector, preferably one who is local and experienced, with good credentials, i.e. membership in ASHI and an engineering degree. Trust your inspector--he's the only one who's really working for you. |
Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 54
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 5:19 pm: |
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mjc--unlike some other states (like NY)--we have buyer agency in NJ--and the person showing you the property does not necessarily work for the seller. If you see the house at an Open House, the agent sitting at the open house is working as a disclosed dual agent--but if you work with an agent to purchase a home--they are showing you a variety of properties listed with a variety of brokers. In that instance they are working with you as a buyer's agent if the property is listed by another broker and a disclosed dual agent if the property is listed with the same broker. Discolsed Dual Agency is an explanation not worthy of a message board post--it'll put everyone to sleep. However, in each instance, the agency relationship should be disclosed and discussed upfront.
And just ot be clear--i didn't recommend verbal assurances--but rather a clear explanation of the circumstances why there isn't a Sellers Disclosure with the agent and a cost-benefit discussion as to the risks/benefits of pursuing and what can be done to protect your interests with a Real Estate Attorney.
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TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 973
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 5:23 pm: |
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What does a seller's disclosure statement entail?
TomR |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 73
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 5:46 pm: |
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Very suspicious. I'm surprised the broker is going for this. Usually the seller's broker wants the disclosure almost as much as the buyer, because there is a clause in the disclosure that the info is based on the seller's knowledge and any future claims made concerning problems with the house must be made against the seller, and includes an indeminfication agreement that the seller agrees to indemnify the broker and hold him or her harmless for any claims regarding the condition of the house.
If the house is purchased and there is a major problem that the owner knew about but did not disclose, and an inspection does not catch it, the broker is put in a precarious position as seller's agent.
Someone can translate the document for him. |
Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 55
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 5:59 pm: |
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It's a survey/questionnaire of sorts asking questions pertaining to the property. Such as what is the electrical service, age of roof, what modifications were done to the property, where permits pulled, ever had water in the basement, age of furnance, hot water heater, etc....
Most reputable broker will NOT let their agents list a house without a Seller's Disclosure just for the reasons mentioned above. However, if it is an estate sale..that generally falls under acceptable reasons why not to have one. All that being said, there are occassions where there isn't one. And honestly--in most of those cases it's a result of a lazy agent. So, specifically asking for one is, of course, an option.
Lastly-- a home inspector, very often is NOT the only one working in the best interest for a buyer. I've seen too many poor inspectors to agree with that statement. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12417
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 6:04 pm: |
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Our home inspector found only a few noteworthy things and missed a ton of things we wish he had caught. Not that he was politically connected to the wrong person, but they're not all that great, it seems.
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Zet
Citizen
Username: Zet
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 9, 2006 - 11:22 pm: |
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Thanks for all the responses. The house hunting is definitely stressful. I feel like I have two jobs now. It helps to see what other people think.
I have decided to keep looking due to other factors but if I were still seriously considering buying that house, I would definitely add an extra clause to the offer and propose to pay for the translator. Depending on the reaction I would take it from there. I don't think I would decide to buy the house if at that point they would still refuse to provide the disclosure.
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Jennifer Pickett
Citizen
Username: Jpickett
Post Number: 162
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
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I agree that your home inspector is not necessarily working for you- after our inspection, he became very chummy with our realtor -sort of like "Hey, I don't make problems to interfere with your sale, call me again". Plus, he sucked us into $1500 of mold testing (not recommended by the CDC), that of course we had to decide that we wanted *on the spot*. Anyway, as a buyer around here, just put one hand on your wallet and the other to protect your vitals to get through it and then at the end- you'll be very happy in your very own house. It's all worth it. |
johnny
Citizen
Username: Johnny
Post Number: 1557
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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Make sure you get a good inspector. Ours missed a few things I wish he hadn't.
Then make sure you request changes based on the inspection report. If the owner refuses, you can always cancel the deal.
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Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1051
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 5:27 pm: |
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If your home inspector wasn't the best advocate for you, it's because s/he wasn't a good home inspector. Make sure that the inspector you hire is licensed by the state of New Jersey, has decent credentials, and is independent, i.e. not affiliated with or reccommended by any realtor. The cheapest inspector is not necessarily the best. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12453
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 10, 2006 - 5:29 pm: |
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Thanks, but we all have 20-20 hindsight. I guess another lesson is get a recommendation from someone you know.
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