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delin wareham
Citizen
Username: Dwareham
Post Number: 42
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 9:17 am: | 
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What exactly does a listing real estate agent do to merit the tens of thousands of dollars we'd pay in commission?
Our house would sell fast (comporable neighbor's house just sold in less than a week), and aside from listing it on the MLS -- which may not be useful given the fast sales on our street -- what would we be getting for our money?
Also, do agents representing buyers work with for-sale-by-owner situations, if we're willing to pay them a commission? |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1759
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:39 am: |
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Your biggest problem is going to be that nearly all buyers are working with agents, and nearly all of those agents won't go anywhere near a For Sale By Owner. One reason, of course, is that typically FSBO = no commission for any real estate agents. But even if you put the word out that you're willing to pay an agent, most firms aren't going to let their people do a deal with you. They're not looking to encourage FSBO. (Likewise with Foxtons -- even though Foxtons will pay a small commission to agents, you'll almost never find a buyer's agent who shows Foxtons properties.)
Real estate agents will give you their standard speech about the epertise they bring to the table, how they can get you more money for your house than you could alone (thereby more than making up for the commission), etc etc. What makes this a tough decision is that all those things are indeed true for many agents. Our agent was stellar, and we'd definitely use her again. But several friends who have sold have had agents who were lazy, jerks, incompetent, or some combination of the three, and truly did nothing except plant a sign in the ground and collect $40,000 at closing.
If you're in a high-visibility area -- that is, plenty of people would be driving by and seeing your house -- I'd certainly be tempted to try FSBO first. If you're not in a hurry, you can always list with an owner later.
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BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 616
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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Licensed Realtors do an awful lot for the money that you pay. When a respected realtor brings people to your home, the potential people are already pre-qualified regarding ability to afford property and get a mortgage. Saves you time by getting excited over a potential sale on your own and the buyers can't get a mortgage.
A good realtor will help you get your house really ready for the sale with good tips before hand so that you do not lose what is called the first blush in showing your home. A good realtor knows where to advertise your home to draw the people that can afford it. A good realtor makes sure that you have qualified home inspection people to do the inspection before the sales. A good realtor is there for the open house(s) so that you do not have to sit there and listen to people make comments about your home which is just another house to them at the time. A good realtor walks you thru all the little things that you do not even think may come up. ...and by the way...unless the realtor owns the company that you use, the realtor gets a percentage of the commission, not the whole thing.
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Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 5768
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:21 pm: |
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Quote:When a respected realtor brings people to your home, the potential people are already pre-qualified regarding ability to afford property and get a mortgage.
Is this new? Cause when we were looking in Maplewood 10 years ago, we were not pre-qualified nor were we asked any questions about that. And our Realtor was a Respected/Good/Successful one at that.
Unless something has changed, anyone can approach a realtor and look at property even if they don't have the means to buy it. They could easily say "I'm looking in the 500K range" and there is (to my knowledge) no need to prove you can afford that in order to be shown homes. And a realtor who asked that up front might well lose more business than they gain as it could well be considered some form of profiling or discrimination. But I don't know.
My singular experience was that I didn't have to prove anything to be shown a home by a qualified and respected realtor. |
IShep
Citizen
Username: Twinsmom
Post Number: 143
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 1:58 pm: |
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You can certainly look at anything you want, but good realtors will usually want you to get pre-approved or pre-qualified (I forget which one it is)pretty soon after you begin the search. It makes you a much stronger buyer. When we finally bought our first house we looked at homes in MA/SO a couple of times before our realtor steered us over to a mortgage broker who got us this pre-approval. It was pretty simple. That way, if we were serious about putting an offer in, we would have an upper hand. When we sold our last house we had 3 offers right after the realtor open house, all with pre-qualified buyers. That really says that you're serious. |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 618
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 4:23 pm: |
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Duncan, My experience has been more recent than yours. When my Mom sold her Maplewood home last April her realtor only showed the home to people who had mortgage approval. Her realtor did everything that I mentioned above and then some. Made the whole experience easy for my Mom. The big difference between doing it yourself and having a professional help you (IMHO) is the risk you take of losing what they call in the industry the "first blush"... |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 591
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 6:08 pm: |
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What is "first blush"? |
Zach Williams
Citizen
Username: Babyzach
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 11:23 pm: |
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It all depends on how much patience you have and how thick your skin is. Like everything in life, it's about tradeoffs. If you do your homework and price your home right and you have aforementioned qualities, I would do it yourself.
There's plenty of information on the web about how to prepare your home for sale - declutter it, clean it, fresh coats of paint, etc. Have a fresh set of eyes look at it - a good friend will give you the honest skinny on it. Heck, buy me a beer at Gaslight and I'll pass on my learnings :-). I sold my last place and my parents place for them. |
Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 58
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
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BGS-- As a professional, full time realtor--Thank you for so eloquently explaining that. Much appreciated! |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 620
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
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The first blush is what realtors call the first time that a home is listed for showing...everyone comes to the open house because they haven't seen the house before and usually the "blush" is the impression that they get. When someone tries to sell on their own and people trek thru your house and then eventually you have to list it, the "blush" is usually gone...the house has been around the block so to speak...am I making sense??? |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1760
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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One problem for realtors is that it doesn't take many bad apples to color the whole bunch. You see enough houses and deal with enough real estate agents and you realize there are some bizarre personalities working in real estate, to say the least. Our agent was incredible, and we'll definitely use her to sell our house. But we met several who were rather unprofessional -- including the agent who represented the seller when we bought.
A friend down the street used one of the biggest names in town to sell her place. She saw this agent twice -- once when the sign was planted in the yard, and once when the commission check was handed over. The rest of the time she spent dealing with endless assistants. She was extremely dissatisfied.
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MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3385
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:19 pm: |
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Does anyone else think those endless "Cherre does it again" postcards are hysterical? How insecure (although rich) can someone be?
We bought our house from the owner & I am so glad we did not have to deal with a realtor. At one point, we were dealing with an agent & when we told her we found a FSBO that we were going to buy, she said "I can help you, if you like". Yeah - right...we should pay her $10K for what? Once we had a contract, our attorney took care of everything and it certainly didn't cost $10k. |
Zoesky1
Citizen
Username: Zoesky1
Post Number: 1383
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:36 pm: |
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MHD, why would you, as buyers, have paid a realtor anything???? Buyers never pay realtors. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3386
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:42 pm: |
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Zoesky,
The seller was doing a FSBO, so they had no intentions of paying a realtor. If we used a realtor, we would have to pay the fee.
No thanks! |
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 556
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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no, the seller would pay the realtor. |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 621
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:49 pm: |
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Oldstone and Zoesky are absolutely right...it is the seller that pays the fee to the realtor. |
Zoesky1
Citizen
Username: Zoesky1
Post Number: 1385
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 1:49 pm: |
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Buyers do not pay realtors. As Oldstone says, the seller would have to pay. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3387
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 2:09 pm: |
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FSBO = For sale by owner. I am quite certain a FSBO can stipulate no agents. (How can you insist on using an agent and force them to pay $10k if they are selling the house on their own?) |
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 558
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 2:31 pm: |
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you can't. at that point, a realtor may try and work out a deal with you if you decided you needed their help. a realtor will find every creative way to get a cut of the transaction. if you found buying from an owner a little disconcerting, you would have to pay a realtor to help you through it out of your own pocket, i think. |
Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 60
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 2:45 pm: |
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Old Stone--That's a pretty strong accusation about realtors finding "creative" ways to get a cut of a transaction, to only end your explanation with "I think".
Most reputable realtors will explain, up front,(not at a point when the buyer found the property--like Old Stone suggests) with a buyer about agency relationships--AND at the same time tell the buyer that the seller is responsible for the commission for any real property listed through the MLS. In addition, for a realtor with a strong working relationship with a buyer, will not only know of all the FSBO's in the area that their buyer is looking but will have already called and asked the owner if they will "cooperate" with brokers and pay a commission (which btw, is not generally the full 5-6%, but rather the 1/2 that would normally go to the buyer's agent of 2-3%). Most often, a FSBO will agree--and then a good buyer's agent will introduce the property to the buyer. Sometimes, a FSBO will NOT cooperate--and that's ok-the buyer then has a choice to whether persue on their own or if they choose, pay the commission themselves...very uncommon. The most common scenario is that most FSBO will cooperate to have their property shown to a pre-approved buyer.
And oh, btw--it's NOT uncommon for a buyer to want to be represented by an agent when a FSBO will cooperate--some people aren't comfortable negotiating face to face with a seller and want the guidance in not just "getting" the house but making sure the deal gets to the closing table smoothly--not something that happens all the time--especially when only dealing with an attorney...who may not have time to remind the buyer of certain deadlines (home inpsections, mortgage committments, etc) until it's too late.
Remember, when a FSBO agrees to cooperate with a Broker, the buyer is the only one represented by that broker/agent..not the seller (hence the 2-3% commission). And, as BGS explained earlier, the individual agent brings home a fraction of that commission collected at the closing. |
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 560
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 2:53 pm: |
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jen, accusation? tell me realtors don't creatively try and make every transaction work.
i wasn't accusing anyone of anything untoward.
the "i think" part was about my last line (which i admittedly thought on my own) and you explained...so now i don't think, i know. thanks for that.
also thanks for being so charming...and remind me to not use you to sell my house. |
Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 61
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 3:01 pm: |
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There is no creativity here--it's very straigtfoward. Realtors are salespeople, and like most salespeople want deals to work--but to use the word "creatively" implies an underhanded, unethical way of working (even despite your claim otherwise)--which I attempted to explain is to the contrary.
I honestly didn't think my post warranted such a strong reaction by you--but that's ok Oldstone--I am not insulted by your unnecessary comment about not using my services--based upon your obvious discomfort with the Real Estate profession, I can't and won't take it personally. |
delin wareham
Citizen
Username: Dwareham
Post Number: 43
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 3:07 pm: |
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I'm leaning more and more toward FSBO. It'll be a lot of work, but I just can't see paying $30-40K for maybe two week's worth of work. The real work, as Zach points out, is in getting the house ready for the market, which it almost is.
Beyond that, I think I'll put a stack of flyers outside with digital pictures, put a web site up with more picts, and host a couple of open houses. I may even go as far as sending a letter to local agents with the flyer and telling them we'll pay a 2% commission to any buyer's agent. Oh, and last but not least, I'll be sure to list it on MOL! : )
I think the only real downsides are the hassle and the potential of not selling it straight away, in which case we'd simply sign with an agent. We are fortunate to have time on our side -- if we had to, we could take it off the market for some time, then put it on again with an agent.
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Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 562
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 3:24 pm: |
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jen, maybe the word "creatively" implies underhanded or unethical methods of working to you (which is a little troubling, given that you are a realtor)...but that's not what i was implying. i was implying that realtors want transactions to go through. they will find any creative way they can to make things happen...that's their job.
in my business, "creative" is a positive. you are the first person i've heard say otherwise.
my strong reaction was to you saying: "That's a pretty strong accusation about realtors finding "creative" ways to get a cut of a transaction, to only end your explanation with "I think". BECAUSE it wasn't an accusation. i call it an observation.
i think it's pretty silly that you are picking on me for trivialities when a lot people don't trust realtors and don't think they earn their commission. i never said that, though. i happen to trust the realtors that i've done business with, thankfully. |
Jennifer
Citizen
Username: Jkohan
Post Number: 62
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 3:42 pm: |
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Oldstone-- I didnt want to hijack Delin's thread any further-- I sent you a PM. |
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 564
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 3:49 pm: |
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okey dokey |
Zach Williams
Citizen
Username: Babyzach
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 8:31 am: |
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MHD,
I'm with you on those Cherre does it again postcards! What a celebrity...
Recently I received a pic of my house in the mail with her bus card...kind of creepy...what does this mean - I'm watching you?
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phyllis
Citizen
Username: Phyllis
Post Number: 474
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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We bought from an owner here in Maplewood 6 years ago. It was a hassle - for example, he had no contract prepared, and once we made a verbal agreement it took forever to move to the next step. Our lawyer didn't really want to draw one up and his lawyer didn't have much experience in real estate. We made lots of rookie mistakes that a good and attentive agent would have prevented, I believe.
We were living in NJ but read about the house in the NYTimes. We had been working with an agent here and when we told him about the house FSBO, he simply asked for the address and price and said "Sounds like a good deal" and we went off on our own. He stayed uninvolved.
Anyway - if you are going FSBO and have a starter home, that's one thing. But if you are marketing to or are in a price range for more saavy buyers, know that some of us might think twice before going down that road. That is, unless you are passing some of that savings along to the buyer and your house is priced really well.
Just my 2 cents from the other side of the transaction. |
fiche
Citizen
Username: Fiche
Post Number: 76
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 1:18 pm: |
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There is a website, www.fsbo.com which you may like to investigate. I am not recommending it but did consult it when I was searching for a home several years ago.
Duncan, yes the requirement for a prequalification is fairly new but most current new home buyers are aware that they need such a thing and will most likely have it handy when they visit an open house. |
Zach Williams
Citizen
Username: Babyzach
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 9:27 pm: |
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www.fsbo.com is good, as well as forsalebyowner.com.
If you have time, why not try and sell it yourself...go for it!
Cherre will be there if you don't...watching...waiting to pounce :-) |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3393
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 9:33 pm: |
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We had a neighbor who tried to sell on their own and at first didn't have any success. Cherre kept calling them saying she wanted to list it for LESS. My neighbor kept at it on their own for a couple more weeks and sold it for what they originally were asking and got to keep it all for themselves.
Cherre didn't do it again this time! |
delin wareham
Citizen
Username: Dwareham
Post Number: 44
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 9:51 pm: |
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I hadn't thought about having a contract drawn up and ready to go -- thanks, Phyllis. I'll have to look into that. What other rookie mistakes should I prepare myself for?
Ours would be considered a starter home. I'd say it's relatively affordable to other homes in Millburn but it's still on a nice, quiet street with a big yard, and everything has been updated.
I'm pretty confident we'll get our asking price -- we've been watching the market for some time and at least six homes have sold in the past year on our street -- quickly and in our asking range.
It's just gonna be tricky juggling an infant, a toddler, a full-time job and all that's involved in FSBO!!
But what the heck, right? It's not like I ever sleep anyway...! |
Zach Williams
Citizen
Username: Babyzach
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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Get ready to be lowballed by some folks who take liberties thinking that they can "negotiate" there way to a sharper deal.
I agree with a previous post, that you should try and incorporate some sort of slight discount that you are passing along by saving on the commission. And just be careful that you are accurately benchmarking the other homes on your block - same condition, similar updates, size, curb appeal, etc.
Now stop reading these posts and declutter, paint, etc :-)
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Kibbegirl
Citizen
Username: Kibbegirl
Post Number: 376
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 8:02 am: |
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I'm a firm believer in leaving most things to the professionals. My husband briefly discussed, once the time came, selling our home solo. I nixed that idea immediately! I don't want to be alone with strangers showing them my home. God only knows what could happen! I love my home and I think I'd get pretty pissed if I heard derogatory comments about it! When you're trying to sell, you're also thinking about moving, your future renovations, etc. That's more than enough pressure. Let the realtor do the selling for you so you can concentrate on other things. |
cmontyburns
Citizen
Username: Cmontyburns
Post Number: 1764
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 9:29 am: |
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I'm all for leaving things to professionals, too. But it's one thing to pay a plumber $900 to do some work you're not comfortable with, and quite another to pay a real estate agent $40,000.
Again, I think it all comes down to whether the agent earns the money. Some do, some don't. The agent who represented the sellers in our transaction was a joke. Our agent was an aggressive professional who kept in constant contact from the moment we first met, until the final signature was on the final document at closing.
The seller's agent, meanwhile -- and I'm not making this up -- was on a ski slope during the three-day review period while the final sales contract was being hammered out. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1825
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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While the sellers "pay" the commission -- who is it that is paying them -- the "buyer" -- so, come on, the buyer does pay the commission!
That said, I have sold several houses myself -- without an agent. I advertised, made signs, fliers, brochures to hand out, etc. At the same time had my lawyer ready a standard contract (for the buyer at offer time).
IF you are comfortable doing all of that -- I think its very worthwhile to sell yourself. Especially with the internet -- there is tons of information on pricing of other homes, so you can really judge the market (or look at those fliers from Cherre that list all the sales!!).
Quite frankly, never had to deal with people making "low ball" offers or any of the scare tactics that the Realtors advertise. But again -- if you're not comfortable with the aspects of fsbo -- then its not a good idea.
/p |
akb
Citizen
Username: Akb
Post Number: 394
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 12:28 pm: |
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As a recent buyer, I would definitely have expected the price to reflect the FSBO. In fact, we offered the equivalent percentage below asking price as our sellers' contract with their realtor expired the day before we offered.
EMMV. |
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