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Message |
    
Matt Foley
Citizen
Username: Mattfoley
Post Number: 561
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2006 - 4:32 pm: | 
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Mr. Fenstermaucher was the chorus teacher who retired in '93. His holiday shows were always tops. |
Kitchenguru
Citizen
Username: Kitchenguru
Post Number: 4
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 1:01 am: |
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I agree with the post from the special-ed student, but this is a problem nationwide.
I (a single parent)had a learning disabled, special-ed student with a very high IQ who barely graduated. I also had a straight A student who is now a senior at the highest ranked ivy academically with a 3.89 GPA.
Both are graduates of CHS since 2001. Guess which one thought it was a great school? In fact, she asked to be removed from a top private school in eigth grade to attend CHS. It's not at all about the school, it's about parenting and genetics. Incidentally, CHS has more Advanced Placement classes than Millburn and Millburn has dropped in state ranking quite significantly. |
Newneighbor
Citizen
Username: Newneighbor
Post Number: 109
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:13 pm: |
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My question is the following: sounds like CHS is a wonderful place from the above views. Yet, when you take a look at the Top 50 Public High Schools in NJ for the past 5 years, CHS has never been in the top 50. So my question is for the taxes paid in M/SO and the obvious caring and involvement noted above by parents and the community, why isn't CHS a top rated school?
The more important question is: WHat is being done to get it in AT LEAST the top 50??? |
Valley_girl
Citizen
Username: Valley_girl
Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
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MtM, I went to an average, but diverse high school just like CHS, then a "top-ranking," all-white school, when my family moved. I can't say enough for normal, average public schools. |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 651
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 9:48 am: |
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Newneighbor-As I mentioned in an above post...because of the large amount of students at the high school who did not have the advantage of an education from Maplewood/South Orange elementary and middle schools, the test scores do not reflect the great education that is available. I also mentioned that another reason could be students whose families are not home after school or in the evenings due to work or other obligations. You know that old expression: "when the cat is away, the mice will play".
FWIW- If a student is getting an excellent education and has the opportunity to go to excellent colleges/universities because of his high school education, does it really matter what # ranking the school has?
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10833
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 10:19 am: |
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While I have become increasingly uneasy with posting disaggregated test scores I had to rise to the challenge. Here are very long links to the School Matters website showing that white students at Columbia score in the top 20 on the 11th grade reading test and in the top ten on the 11th grade math test amongst their peer group in other districts. Many of the schools that do better are specialized schools with admission by competitive examination schools.
I will post similar data on our black students in a little while.
http://www.schoolmatters.com/App/SES/SPSServlet/BetterPerformersSearchRequest?Me nuType=&MenuLevel=0&Site=pes&StateID=31&LocLevelID=118&StateLocLevelID=227&Locat ionID=990272&Sel=990272&Page=50&StartIndex=0&SortName=default&SortOrder=D&Letter =&Init=true&PerformanceID=0&CompID=765&ResultID=205&MeasureID=275&StudentID=175& CritIND=P&Year=1&Op6572=m
http://www.schoolmatters.com/App/SES/SPSServlet/BetterPerformersSearchRequest?Me nuType=&MenuLevel=0&Site=pes&StateID=31&LocLevelID=118&StateLocLevelID=227&Locat ionID=990272&Sel=990272&Page=50&StartIndex=0&SortName=default&SortOrder=D&Letter =&Init=true&PerformanceID=0&CompID=765&ResultID=206&MeasureID=275&StudentID=175& CritIND=P&Year=1&Op6572=m
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10834
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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These results are not as impressive. However, many of the schools that do better are again entrance exam schools and schools with a small number of black students in a low poverty towns as shown by the economically disadvantaged percentage.
http://www.schoolmatters.com/App/SES/SPSServlet/BetterPerformersSearchRequest?Me nuType=&MenuLevel=0&Site=pes&StateID=31&LocLevelID=118&StateLocLevelID=227&Locat ionID=990272&Sel=990272&Page=50&StartIndex=0&SortName=default&SortOrder=D&Letter =&Init=true&PerformanceID=0&CompID=765&ResultID=205&MeasureID=275&StudentID=160& CritIND=P&Year=1&Op6572=m
http://www.schoolmatters.com/App/SES/SPSServlet/BetterPerformersSearchRequest?Me nuType=&MenuLevel=0&Site=pes&StateID=31&LocLevelID=118&StateLocLevelID=227&Locat ionID=990272&Sel=990272&Page=50&StartIndex=0&SortName=default&SortOrder=D&Letter =&Init=true&PerformanceID=0&CompID=765&ResultID=206&MeasureID=275&StudentID=160& CritIND=P&Year=1&Op6572=m |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 2750
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 10:56 am: |
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Ranking matters. Higher ranking increases home values. Ranking is a way (good or bad) of a potential home buyer determining how good is the town's school system.
I know us folks in Millburn are peeved at the "significant" drop in state rankings. Because it makes us concerned that the quality of our schools might be slipping. And it makes us concerned that this might make our house values go down. I think this is a good thing, as it keeps us focused on the education of our kids.
That being said there are only so many factors that can be measured to rank a school. Quality of arts programs, diversity, parental involvement cannot be measured and yet have a large impact on the quality of education.
In addition, the main reason taxes are high in MSO is not because they are wasting money on the school system. It is because surrounding towns (like Millburn) have larger tax generating businesses (like the Short Hills Mall) that alleviate the tax burden for their residents. If the SHM didn't exist, I'm pretty sure Millburn property taxes would be higher than Maplewood's. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1383
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Valley-girl, I never had the opportunity to go to an "average" school. I went straight to the all-white "top ranking" type in a community very much like Millburn. It had its benefits (safe, pretty, top-notch drugs), but it's not the environment I want my kids in. |
Kitchenguru
Citizen
Username: Kitchenguru
Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 2:37 pm: |
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Regarding why our school is not top 50:
The population is too diverse. Which may or may not be a good thing depending on which "side of town" you come from. It might be interesting to note for newcomers that in this area the non-white and non-asian community are the ones with the higher household income. We have an interesting set of variables here. It's not for anyone who does not want to raise their children in an urban environment. Personally my issues regarding this area have nothing to do with the schools. I am appalled at the lack of respect here which I am sure is a trend which will continue to increase. Do unto others...! |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 598
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 3:33 pm: |
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Lack of respect? On MOL or elsewhere in the community? |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2315
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 4:02 pm: |
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"IMO the kids in Millburn, Livingston and other minimally-diverse school districts are at a disadvantage in life in that they won't learn how to interact with other people."
"Good for you Chasm...you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned minimally diverse school districts... "
I'm sorry but I hate that sentiment (and I'm sorry for singling you two out but that sentiment runs rampant in this and other "open-minded" communities) it is so not true. I went to a predominantly white suburban school and an even whiter college and I and my fellow classmates have had absolutely no problem adjusting to the "real world." The fact of the matter is that my parents, and those of my friends and classmates, taught us to adapt and respect no matter what the surrounding populations were. To me it signals that your kids may have the problem if they cannot relate to a majority of one race or another. BGS would your child have reacted the same way if they attended a predominantly black school and its lack of diversity or was it only a problem because he/she was dealing with white students?
I'm not so sure that going to school in a non-diverse environment really impacts the vast majority of students. Of course there are outliers who will see it (attending homogeneous schools) as an opportunity to reinforce attitudes taught by their parents. I really don't see it as the disadvantage that most see. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1390
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 4:18 pm: |
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sportsnut,
Your points are well taken, but, for me, it's less an issue of "adjusting" to the real world (a phrase I dislike) as it is experiencing it. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2316
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 4:26 pm: |
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Dave23 your HS years last all of four years add another 4 years of college and you're just beginning to experience the world as we know it. I'd still argue its the attitude of the parents and family members that are far more influential in how you deal with the "real world" than the color of the skin of other students. Its almost like white people can't possibly have diversity of thought. |
Michael Turner
Citizen
Username: Resident_lune
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 5:29 pm: |
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For all this praising of school diversity both ethnicially and racially, I can't help but wonder about something.
Maplewood's Caucasian population makes up 58% of the town, compared to 32% who are African American. South Orange is similar, with a 60% to 31% differential. These numbers coming from the 2000 Census, mind you ... changes within 5-6 years could be considered negligable and not worth overanalyzing.
With these numbers in mind, why is it that the high school is an African American majority?
Don't assume I am asking from a racist perspective. This is a serious question that begs a serious answer, and undermines the concept of considering the school's "diversity" as a positive effect. Where are these students coming from? How many students are illegally entering CHS, both overflowing the school and avoiding taxes that would normally benefit the school district?
Or maybe it's something else. Perhaps there is a heavy population of Caucasians who forsake Columbia High School for many reasons and instead opt to go to private schools or other types of schools outside of the district.
Either way ... when an ethnicity's 31.5% population is over 50% within the school, one must consider if there are problems in the system not being recognized. |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 657
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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Sportsnut-I am just reporting my children's experiences. I graduated CHS in '66 and I think that there were 3 black students in my class and one Vietnamese foreign exchange student. I did just fine in the real world. ( and this with having a Mom born in the deep south who went to segregated schools)
The world and attitudes have changed in 4o years.
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catmanjac
Citizen
Username: Catmanjac
Post Number: 62
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 5:38 pm: |
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And the high school, as well as the middle and elementary schools will continue to increase in "minority" population. More kids per family. |
Michael Turner
Citizen
Username: Resident_lune
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 5:41 pm: |
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Quote:And the high school, as well as the middle and elementary schools will continue to increase in "minority" population. More kids per family.
While I don't dispute the possibility of a higher child per household rate amongst minorities (in this case African Americans, since this is the statistical example) in the Maplewood / South Orange community, I do dispute that it is so high that there is a nearly 19% differential between overall community population and school student population concerning this certain ethnicity or race.
Edit (5:50 PM EST): I want to stress once more, I am not trying to be prejudice and/or racist. Having to refer to a specific ethnicity or race when attempting to make my point is quite painful, and it smacks of racism no matter how hard I try to be tactful when addressing my concerns. So I am sincerely apologetic if I come off in a negative way that could be considered as such.
My concern is that the school's population does not emulate the community population. And that means there are questions that need answering. Why doesn't it? |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 658
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 5:45 pm: |
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Micheal- I love you son...I helped raise you...but I beg to differ.
I truly believe that the Maplewood and South Orange town governments are doing everything possible to out the illegals... |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10842
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 5:53 pm: |
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Michael if you look at the census data African Americans in our communities are younger and have more children than white people. |
Michael Turner
Citizen
Username: Resident_lune
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 6:15 pm: |
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Quote:Michael if you look at the census data African Americans in our communities are younger and have more children than white people.
To be honest, I am finding the census data rather frustrating. Beyond the division of population into age group percentages, I can not find a further division of races within age groups into more specific percentages of those groups.
... hopefully that made sense. Anyway, I'm not going to argue against it if the statistics show that the younger population does reflect the school population. If that's the case I'll pack up camp and resume standing by my only other school critical argument concerning the district's Special Education initiatives. |
Trent_Daddy
Citizen
Username: Tcedwards
Post Number: 168
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:25 pm: |
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If you want to keep the high school diverse why not simply keep your children in the school and support it's programs and your child while there? The outcome would be a win win.
To speak of diversity in word only isn't diversity.
TD |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10843
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 4:33 am: |
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Trent, which is why I posted the School Matters link above. It shows that white students at Columbia do extremely well according to the NCLB tests.
In math Columbia scores are in the top ten and second only to Millburn among general admissions high schools in the state.
In language arts Columbia is among the top twenty and among general admission high schools only trails extremely affluent towns such as Millburn, Bernards, Chatham and then only by a percent or two.
Both our kids are Columbia grads and their experience was extremely positive.
But then we are living in an age where perception trumps reality every time.
Both my posts on this subject can be viewed by some as, well, racist. This isn't the intent. The sole purpose is to encourage people in our communities to send their kids to CHS as "white flight" is not in anyones interst. |
Trent_Daddy
Citizen
Username: Tcedwards
Post Number: 171
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 3:33 am: |
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Interesting...JC has an extremely high efficiency number of 100%. That number shows up in a number of areas. Do you know if those are correct? As the number of categories go up one would think the percentage would likely slip (at least a little). |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 420
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 11:02 am: |
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Bobk, I continue to find your posts/experience informative....keep it up, you've got readership :-)
Let me dispell a couple myths that circulate on this board:
Myth #1: Kitchenguru's note that Black families have a higher household income than the White families- This myth seems to have started from an article years ago from the Star Ledger citing the fact that Black households in SO are wealthier than their white counterparts. Unfortunately, it was not footnoted, and there is no factual evidence supporting this claim. (in fact, the facts support the reverse statement). But people continue to throw that one around on MOL frequently, alas it is only a myth.
Myth #2: The increased population of Black HS students is due to the fact that Minority Families are younger and Have more children. This statement may be true from a macro perspective. But the numbers are so slight, that they barely impact the number of additional students at CHS to drive the Black population to 50%.
Myth #3: White familie are sending their kids to Private school, which is why they make up a lower portion of CHS population. Not true yet again. White families keep their kids in the public schools here at the same, or HIGHER rates than every neighboring community. The change in demographics is actually caused by ADDITIONAL minority students that were not in the Elementary school system. (Middle schools get a big influx, and the High School gets a BIGGER influx).
Myth #4: The unnusual demographic make-up means there are illegal students in our system. After a multi-year (and THOROUGH) effort the School spent addressing this, very few illegal students have been kicked-out of the system.
Much of this can be explained by several Private Elemantary schools that are largely Minority Students, and that feed into the Middle/High Schools here. The best explanation that I can find (that the facts also support) for the 50/50 Black/White population suggests that many people rent homes (explaining the 20-30% rental rate within our community) for their childrens High School Years. This effect, combined with the Private Elementary schools, probably explains the 50/50 make-up of CHS. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10874
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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Smarty,
As of the 1990 census (and I think the 1980 census) African American households had slightly higher incomes than white families in both South Orange and Maplewood. This changed with the 2000 census. However, the median household income for black families in SO was higher than the median for white households in Maplewood.
A factor in this was prior to the early to mid 1990s the Hilton area was about 90% white and this area has always been the least affluent area in town.
A few years ago we had a very lengthy discussion here on the census data. Basically, black families have more kids and this is how 1/3rd of the population provides 1/2 of the students. This is one of the reasons so many believe we have a huge non-resident student problem. My personal believe is there are more non-residemt students than the BOE admits, but fewer than the 10% many believe to be the case.
Data on private school enrollment is pretty poor. Again, a couple of years ago during the census discussion, the census tract we lived in showed very few students going to private schools. I could easily count more than the census estimate just from our street and friends of our daughter who was then at Columbia.
Trent Daddy, the Dr. Ronald McNair HS is Jersey City is an elite, admissions exam school similar to Bronx Science in NYC.
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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4531
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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"very few illegal students have been kicked-out of the system."
It all depends on what your definition of "a very few" is. Last year I think it was around 80 students who got kicked out over the course of a year. I do not find that number small. The board apparently does. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 421
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 5:43 pm: |
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Median White Household Income: $85,000 Median African American Household Income $70,000. (Right from Census 2000). I'd be really surprised if a difference that significant (avergaged from 20,000 people) would change over 10 years. What data set am I not seeing?
Ffof: I think that #80 was the entire school district, no? Given that it is about 7 students per grade, it seems trivial, and certainly wouldn't drive the racial breakdown to it's current 50/50 split. But while I don't think that it explains the racial balance of the HS, I do think that that 80 X $10,800 per head cost of students, translates to $850,000 of annual savings, which more than pays for the 1 special detective on staff adressing this.
Bob- If the explanation was that Black families have more kids than white families, than the 50/50 racial split seen in High School would be the same for Middle school and Elementary school, but that's not the case. Elementary school reflects the town breakdown of 70/30, Middle school is 60/40 and CHS is 50/50.
If you count the actual number of minority students graduating from the private elementary schools that feed into our Middle and High Schools, you will see that it explains a significant portion of the added number of minority students at these two points. The data on Private School enrollment (by race) is actually pretty complete, and explains 50% of the added numbers. It's the other 50% that's remains a mystery.
Given that the district actually investigated 700+ suspected illegal entrants, and given the towns 30% rental occupancy rate, I am left to conclude that these inividuals are temporary residents which would allow them in the district, but also throw them up as suspicous new faces.
Further, the 2000 census reports approximately 800 people under the age of 18 (African Americans) living in households as INDIRECTLY related (rather than children) vs. the white population of 80 listed in this fashion. This very closely matches the 700-800 un-accounted for figure that throws the ratios off in the middle and high school, which is why I've drawn the conclusions I have.
Whether or not you agree with people moving in with relatives to get into this school district is a different story, but as long as they are legal tenants, than it's a legal residency/school enrollment. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10881
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 6:45 pm: |
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Smarty, a lot of points to discuss:
1. Between 1990 and 2000 the Hilton area, the least affluent part of Maplewood for the most part, went from being 90% white to at least 2/3rd minority. At the same time the black population of the Town doubled. This accounts for the income changes.
2. The incremental cost for adding a student is much less than the average cost per student. There are exceptions to this, mostly Special Ed and students at the Alternative High School. I also suspect that the costs for remedial students at Columbis (Level 1) are higher because of the smaller class sizes. However, incremental costs are different than average costs. This doesn't mean I don't feel that non-resident students should be removed from the district.
3. I think the percentages you quote are a little off. However, you are correct in that in the higher grades minority representation increases. A fair number of students enter the district for high school, many of them from out of district schools or so I have been told.
4. Your research on indirectly related children is new. I don't think anyone picked that up before. Students who are not children of residents have to attend under an afidavit where the guardian indicates they support the student. There are relatively few students attending school here under these afidavits according to posts by the former BOE President. I rather suspect that most of the 880 children you discovered are just registered as the sons and daughters of local residents, although I have no proof of this. This fact could be very important, although it doesn't mean they are non-residents. I would love to hear what the BOE members have to say about this, especially the candidates.
5. Another fact is that for the 25% or so percent of students who live in rental housing, most don't have leases. This strikes me as somewhat unusual. These students attend under an afidavit from the landlord stating their parents rent the apartment or house. Most of the investigations you mentioned are for students living in rental housing and attending under an afidavit.
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Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 423
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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Thanks for the reply....Do you have the incremental cost per student?
Re: percentages, they are accurate (within a point ) as of 2005.
Re: Point #4, this would suggest the census data and the SMO distric info diverges. Where do we go to see what a) The Distric has on file and b) why it may differ from Census data.....of course its ENTIRELY possible I misread the data, but I'll go and recheck and post if it appears correct.
Why wouldn't a renter have a lease? Is Maplewood one of the few communities in the US where Landlords dislike using Leases?
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C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2481
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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Smarty, leases are NOT required by law and if a landlord chooses the "month to month" route it is easier to oust a tenant they are unhappy with. Smaller buildings, under 4 apartments, I believe, are not governed by the same rules as larger ones and owner-occupied buildings have even less restrictions. I lived in a number of apartments that had no leases, generally they were owner-occupied two-family residences, a type which is probably fairly common among local renters.
Of course, some rental units are not legal and are off the books. But the township is charged with dealing with that and the BOE cannot simply refer a family to the housing inspector.
The thing to remember about these is that the renting family is not legally at fault here and that the definition of domicile does not address legality. Any student who actually LIVES here, with parents or by affidavit with other relatives or foster family, is LEGALLY ENTITLED to be educated in our district according to state law, whether their dwelling is legal, illegal, safe, unsafe, or simply a tent in a park. This district was actually sued and found to be in violation of state regs on a case like this some years ago. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10883
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Cathy is correct as usual.
However, I have suggested that both the TC and the SO Village Board consider ordinances requiring leases on rental properties, probably excluding the two families that Cathy mentions. This one has gone over like the proverbial lead balloon, even though I think it would be a tenant protection sort of thing. 
Smarty, I have no idea what incremental costs are. I kinda doubt the schools do either.
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C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2482
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 11:16 am: |
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I agree with Bob that a lease law would be a good thing. However, if it is regarded and enforced similarly to our leash laws, we'll all be stuck in dog-doo. IOW, it would need some teeth, including serious fines for landlords. Perhaps the cost should be equivalent to a year of school tuition so the district has a shot at recouping some of the lost revenue. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 424
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 11:40 am: |
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Wow. I feel like such a sucker for signing 15 years worth of leases :-) Thanks for the great info!
Bob....Try this link to the Data Set from 2000 census....look to the far right, and let me know if you arrive at the same conclusion I did. I'm nervous you'll have trouble opening it up though:
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/CTTable?_bm=y&-context=ct&-ds_name=DEC_2000 _SF1_U&-mt_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B&-tree_id=4001&-redoLog=false&-all_geo_types =N&-geo_id=06000US3401343800&-search_results=01000US&-dataitem=DEC_2000_SF1_U_P0 19.P019001|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P019.P019002|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P019.P019006|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P019.P01 9007|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P019.P019008|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P025.P025001|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P025 .P025002|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027A.P027A001|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027A.P027A002|DEC_2000_SF 1_U_P027A.P027A003|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027A.P027A008|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027A.P027A014|D EC_2000_SF1_U_P027A.P027A015|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027A.P027A016|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027A. P027A023|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027B.P027B001|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027B.P027B002|DEC_2000_SF 1_U_P027B.P027B003|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027B.P027B008|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027B.P027B014|D EC_2000_SF1_U_P027B.P027B015|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027B.P027B016|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P027B. P027B023|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A001|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A002|DEC_2000_SF 1_U_P028A.P028A004|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A005|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A006|D EC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A007|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A010|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A. P028A011|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A012|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028A.P028A013|DEC_2000_SF 1_U_P028B.P028B001|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B002|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B003|D EC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B004|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B005|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B. P028B006|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B007|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B010|DEC_2000_SF 1_U_P028B.P028B011|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B012|DEC_2000_SF1_U_P028B.P028B013&- format=&-_lang=en
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10884
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
|
Smarty, the link doesn't work. There are probably some characters that don't work with Jamie's message board software. Try tinyurl.com |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 425
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 3:01 pm: |
|
Wow. Cool site...try this: http://tinyurl.com/j28gr |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10893
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:28 am: |
|
I gotta look at this for awhile. I always thought I had good reading comprehension, but this is confusing. |
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