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Ms. Cooper
Citizen
Username: Ms_cooper
Post Number: 55
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:11 pm: | 
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Is there really a difference? If so, what is it? Is there a way to substitue all-purpose for cake flour by either adding or subtracting from the recipe requirements?
Also, why do some recipes require sifting ingredients more than once? Has anyone ever skipped this step and found success? |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:16 pm: |
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just found this (but no personal experience)
Substitutions
For 1 cup of cake flour, substitute 1 cup minus 2 tablespoons all-purpose flour. You also can try wubstituting 3/4 cup all-purpose flour plus 2 tablespoons cornstarch for every 1 cup of cake flour called for in a recipe. To substitute cake flour for all-purpose flour, use 1 cup plus 2 tablespoons cake flour for every 1 cup all-purpose flour called for in a recipe.
If a recipe for a delicate cake, such as angel food or sponge cake, calls for cake flour, do not try substituting all-purpose flour. Such a substitution could cause the delicate cake to collapse. |
Ms. Cooper
Citizen
Username: Ms_cooper
Post Number: 56
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:20 pm: |
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Thanks! |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:22 pm: |
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I think I'd sift the all-purpose flour as well... |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 546
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:29 pm: |
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Never fail to sift, when a recipe says sift!
And, when measuring the sifted flour, be very careful not to tap the measuring cup and use a flat edged knife or spatula to carefully scrape off the excess and make it a level cup. And then re-sift the flour you pushed around while scooping up flour to measure.
(I make really good pie-crust and always get compliments, and I think the "trick" is carefully sifted flour.) |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1080
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 1:41 pm: |
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I think that originally, back a couple of hundred years or so, flour was sifted to remove the vermin and other impurities from it. |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 2:35 pm: |
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pdg
I'd love your pie crust recipe, if you're willing to share.
I made a blueberry pie the other day using frozen pie crust, but would love to try homemade for giggles.
meet you in the Recipe section?
thanks!
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sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2314
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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Yes there is a difference. I believe it has to do with the amount of Gluten in the flour. We needed cake flour a couple of months ago and someone here was kind enough to point me to the almost exact spot where you could find it in Shoprite. There are alternatives to using cake flour as listed above. |
ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 1230
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:18 pm: |
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I have to say that, unless I am making a very specific cake, I pretty much never sift. All of my baked goods are pretty delicious with great texture (if I may say so myself) so I have not been convinced that sifting is required.
Just an observation. |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1134
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 7:48 pm: |
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Pippi,
I'm sure it doesn't compare to Pdg's, but I get lots of compliments on my pies/crusts (perhaps people are just being kind!) & it's Pillisbury dough (refrigerated, not frozen), which I generally brush with milk or egg wash & might sprinkle some sugar. The insides are homemade though...
Perhaps I should put that in the confessional! |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 1856
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 12:29 pm: |
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doula - I used milk and sugar on my frozen crust, too. I understand pie crusts are difficult to make from scratch, which is why I want to try at least once. FWIW, my mom has been using Oronoke Farms crusts for years and they are yummy. That's what I used for the blueberry pie. Easy to find in Pathmark, Kinds, Shoprite |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 663
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 2:08 pm: |
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Pippi- They are really not as hard as you think...what always makes me want to use the Pillsbury is getting out the flour and rolling pin etc...stuff that is not always out...(because of course I have stuff on top of and in front of the flour canister). |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 664
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 2:16 pm: |
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Pippi- They are really not as hard as you think...what always makes me want to use the Pillsbury is getting out the flour and rolling pin etc...stuff that is not always out...(because of course I have stuff on top of and in front of the flour canister). |
Winniegirl
Citizen
Username: Winniegirl
Post Number: 26
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 3:58 pm: |
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Pie crusts are actually very quick to make and not scary! If you have a food processor they are exceptionally painless. Just put the butter and flour in the processor and pulse until crumbly. Then add ice cold water by the tbs (I usually measure the water and add ice cubes to the measuring cup to make it very cold). Dribble the water in until the dough forms a ball and you're done. The secret is not to add more water than necessary (it may be less than what the recip calls for -- it also maybe slightly more. go by the texture). The next big tip is to make sure to refrigerate it for at least an hour or more before you roll it out. I also regrigerate it after i've rolled it out and put it in the pie plate (sometimes I even put it in the freezer to get nice and firm). This helps with shrinkage. One other tip that can be useful if you have a hard time working with an all butter crust is to use some shortening. I usually use 1/3 shortening and 2/3 butter if I'm doing it this way.
If you don't have a food processor, all of the steps can be done with your fingers (which is I how I usually do it). This may seem like a lot of steps, but it's realy only about 15 minutes of active time, the rest is just opening an closing the refrigerator door! This probably is more information than what you were looking for, but I'm very pro pie crust!  |
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 1859
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 4:33 pm: |
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thanks winnie!
I know I shouldn't be afraid...
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ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 1248
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 6:20 pm: |
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I am still afraid of pie crusts! Pippi, if you try this, let us know how it turns out! |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 554
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 7:06 pm: |
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Thanks Winnie - I'm a pastry-cutter, then by fingers pie crust baker. I've never tried the food processor, but next pie I will - it would make life a lot simpler!!!
"My" pie crust recipe is pretty standard:
2 1/4 cups sifted flour
3/4 cup shortening (I use Crisco sticks for easy measuring)
1/2 teaspoon salt
4-5 Tablespoons ice cold water
Sift flour onto good sized piece of waxed paper. Carefully spoon sifted flour into measuring cups, using a flat edged knife to level it.
Add the salt and mix it around a bit.
Add the shortening and using a sharp pastry cutter, mix the flour and shortening together. I mix with the theory that the object is to coat every tiny piece of shortening with flour, cutting until the dough is primarily in pieces the size of peas.
Meanwhile, dump any excess flour off the waxed paper and save the paper to wrap the finished dough in.
Then, you add 4 - 5 tablespoons of icy cold water. Add the water all over the dough, not all in one spot. (I actually float ice in a small bowl while I prepare the other ingredients so it is good and cold. The ice water will also be needed for small repairs later.) I use judgement about how much water to use based on how humid the house is. (It's a "call", but you get used to it after a few pie crusts.)
I use a sharp knife to cut most of the water into the dough and then use my fingers (not the whole hand - you don't want to warm up the dough, that will melt the shortening and make it tough) and teh sides of the bowl to mix the water in well. You want all the pieces of dough to be able to be formed into a ball. Try not to handle the dough more than necessary to get this ball, while still mixing completely.
Then, put the ball, squish it into a slightly flat round shape and wrap it in the waxed paper. Put it in the fridge for at least 30 minutes. It has to "rest". (I think this means the flour has to soak into the shortening a bit.)
Take the dough out of the fridge and cut it in two pieces, one slightly large than the other (the larger piece will line the bottom of the pie plate, the smaller will be the top.)
*TIP* I use a wooden roller and the pie crust fabric you can find in most grocery stores. There is a sort of sock that goes over the pin and a flat cloth that you roll out onto. Flour the flat cloth and the covered pin and place your piece of dough on the surface and flour the top of it lightly. Roll it out from the center to the edges, trying to make it roll out as round as possible (it's never really round). Place your pie plate over the crust in the air and judge if it is thin enough to cover well.
When you are done rolling it, fold the dough in half using the cloth. Then pick up the dough and carefully place it in the pie plate. Try to place it well so you don't have to pull the dough. Don't worry if you end up with some small tears or holes - they are easily repaired using ice water as your glue with an excess piece.
You have to use a fork to pin prick the bottom and sides if you need to have a pre-baked pie crust, like for lemon meringue pie or pudding pies. If you are doing a pumpkin pie or apple/other fruit pie don't prick it.
Add your pie filling and then roll out the other half of the crust (which has been waiting in the fridge, btw)
Roll it out as before only smaller. Fold and place on top. Seal the top to the bottom with a bit of cold water on your fingers and press gently. Roll up the excess and make a decroative edge. Some use a fork to make the edge, but I find that burns easily. I use one finger between two fingers of the other hand to make a sort of wavy edge that is thicker.
Some people like to brush on egg white or milk and then sprinkle lightly with sugar (kids like that crust better, but IMO for a quiche that won't taste as good - unless you like Cait & Abby's quiche, b/c they use sugar in all their pie crusts, yuck!)
Bake according to your recipe. A lot of recipes call for pies to be baked at 425 degrees for 10 minutes and then much longer at a lower temp. This ensures the crust is cooked during those 10 minutes and then the insides cook for the remainer. Check the pie as it cooks to make sure the edges don't burn. If they are, take out the pie and try to carefully cover the edge with some aluminum foil.
Cool pie on rack and love it!
Whew! That took a lot more effort than it should have - it's really not that hard and when you do it a couple times you will get confident and will see that it is a piece of cake to make your own crust - and people are so easily impressed by that! I use a pastry wheel and cut little strips and make lattice crusts for blueberry and cherry pies, and they look so pretty, especially with an egg-white wash before baking.
Good luck!!! 
(PS. I never wash my rolling fabric thingies. I toss them and buy new after about 6 months. After each use I just shake them out, outside and put them away in a ziploc bag. I tried washing them once and the flat cloth gets frayed, very wrinkled and never really gets completely clean anyway.)
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Winniegirl
Citizen
Username: Winniegirl
Post Number: 27
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 1, 2006 - 7:43 pm: |
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we actually have mostly similar techniques. I use my fingers only because it's faster for me. I used to use a pastry cutter, but I find if you cube the butter/shortening into half inch cubes, add it to the flour and then kind of toss it like a salad while rubbing it between your fingesrs (can't really think of another way to describe it),it goes really fast. I do rinse my hands in cold water periodically to keep them cool. (as a side note, always use cold water to wash your hands if they are flour-y. hot water turns flour into glue and makes it very hard to wipe off)
Putting the crust in the refrigerator does help relax it, and it also helps the butter re-chill which allows for the flakiness to occur in the crust. The butter in the crust gets firm and when it's baked the steam released from the water content in the butter creates layers in the dough. That's why just sticking it in the frig really, really helps get a flaky crust.
Also, another easy way to get the crust into the pie plate is to roll it up on the rolling pin (after rolling it out of course) and then rolling it out over the pie plate.
I lost a bet and the payoff is an apple pie, I plan on making crust on Friday. If I think of anything else I'll pass it on. Did i mention that you can make the dough ahead of time and freeze it, so that you can always have it on hand -- just like store bought |
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