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mimi
Citizen
Username: Mimi
Post Number: 219
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:31 pm: | 
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john,
we moved out here last spring after many years in the east village. we chose the tuscan section of town for a number of reasons:
we liked what we heard about the tuscan elementary school and the close proximity to seth boyden elementary because the curriculum there greatly appeals to us.
we also like our area because of it's proximity to springfield avenue. lots of people might consider it a negative. but it feels just enough more urban that we didn't panic when we moved to the burbs. we can walk a block to the post office, a chinese restaurant, a deli, and an amazing old-school italian foods store. i walk to my yoga center, a coffee shop, a diner, and a quick mart. there's a park right around the corner for the dogs. and a branch of the library. and i walk to town (10-12 minutes) and the train to manhattan when i have to go in to work.
we're a mixed race family (my husband is 1/2 chinese), and while i haven't noted a large asian population, i have noted a true racial diversity and lots of mixed families--especially in this area. and that means a lot to us. we woudn't have moved out here without that vibe. many of the other nearby towns that you've mentioned just felt too white for us. and too suburban in their layout. but i suspect you'll get your own vibe when you come to visit. we trusted our gut and it didn't fail us. we've been blissfully happy with our decision.
we shop at whole foods pretty much exclusively. i find the selection just perfect and am happy to pay more for good quality organic. since we don't consume much prepared or processed foods, we don't hit trader joes very often. but it is an option. there's also a food coop that delivers that you might want to explore called (someone correct me here) purple something? purple dragon?
i do love the houses that abut the reservation. we go walking and hiking there all the time. and sometimes even imagine what it would be like to live there. that said, i would have felt too isolated moving there straight from the city. (not to mention that it was out of our price range.) but if i became less compelled to walk as much as i do and had a little more non-urban time under my belt, i'd definitely consider it.
as i said before, you'll probably get a good sense of things when you come for a visit. we knew the first day that maplewood was the right town for us. i wish the same for you.
good luck. |
Lester Jacobs
Citizen
Username: Lester
Post Number: 91
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:32 pm: |
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John,
I would definetly consider Chatham, Madison, and Summit before MW/SO. The schools in those communities are consistently ranked the best in the state. Safety and property crime are much less of an issue, which in turn leads to lower insurance rates. Each has several nice quality newer grocery stores. Also the commute on the train is only about 10-15 minutes longer. Housing prices in those communities are about 30-40% more but taxes are much less, and you do not have to send your kids to private school when they hit the sixth grade. In terms of diversity there is not as many African Americans, but there are many more Asians, Hispanics, and Europeans. Also there is much less socio-economic diveristy as well (i.e far fewer kids that are eligible for free lunches). You will also see more of a balance of Democrats vs. Republicans (about a 50/50 split as opposed to a 90/10 split in MW). |
Miss L Toe
Citizen
Username: Miss_l_toe
Post Number: 473
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:48 pm: |
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Lester - John and his family would find that Millburn has extremely low crime rates (most crime statistics are for shoplifting from out-of-towners at the elite Short Hills Mall quite some distance from Millburn homes) and a top-rated school system too. However Millburn has more Asian and Asian-American families than can be found further afield in Chatham, Summit and Madison.
It's only a 5 minute drive from Maplewood village to boot and even less than that if resident near the reservation on the Millburn/Maplewood border!
There is also the thriving St.Rose of Lima RC parish church, pre-kindergarten - Grade 8 school in the township (across from the High School) and many students come from neighbouring towns including Maplewood.
http://www.stroseoflima.net/
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12772
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 3:49 pm: |
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Lester, when you state that in those towns, you won't have to send your kids to private school when they hit sixth grade, you seem to imply that when living in SO/M that you do. I suppose I should state that about 90% of us don't share that opinion with you.
With that said, the towns you mention do have some nice attributes. I like Madison, and Summit does seem to have tons of good shopping and restaurants, since it is a fairly large place. Note that John said he will be working in Basking Ridge, so he won't be taking the train eastward.
If you work in Basking Ridge, you will probably prefer to drive, and it will be an easy, stress-free 30-minute drive. I commuted there for a couple of years and was grateful for the commute.
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dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1433
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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All of the towns mentioned have their pluses and minuses. People are very passionate about Maplewood and, as a result, there is a distinct sense of community that I think is lacking in Millburn. I'm particularly fond of Summit's community organizations like the Connection and YMCA. And they even have a little record store run by some great kids that you can duck into when the Stepford Wives are on your tail. |
Lester Jacobs
Citizen
Username: Lester
Post Number: 92
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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Tom, I respect your opinion but if you look at topschools.net you will see that every school in the district is noted as being in need of improvement based on NCLB. You will not find that for any school in the towns I mentioned. Also keep in mind that our high school is about 70% black and poor or in other words the kids that do not have the option to go to a better school. I think the facts speak for themselves. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1434
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:14 pm: |
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Thanks Lester. Now comes the part of the thread that charms the potential newcomer... |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12774
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:14 pm: |
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You should note that John (the guy who is considering moving here) disregards mean tests because he is a sophisticated mathematician. You might want to do some research to understand why test scores are not the beginning and end of a decision to go to a school.
Consider that the milieu that a child is in will have more of an influence than mean test scores. If his peers work hard and plan to go to college, your child probably will, too. This happens a lot at CHS.
CHS is not 70% black. It's 57% black. The facts speak for themselves, but they speak better when they are correct.
And yes, I recommend considering Millburn. And as confusing as it is, Short Hills is a zip code within Millburn. Some would have you think it's a separate town, but it's not. Though I have been warned it's snobby, even by Millburn (and Short Hills) residents! I have no experience with that, though.
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crabby
Citizen
Username: Crabbyappleton
Post Number: 499
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 4:34 pm: |
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Lester- Haven't you moved yet? If not, then quit yer BS. Your statistics are wrong too. 70% poor? It's about 18% who qualify for free/Reduced Lunch, so it's nothing near 70%. And so what, anyway. But of course, as we all know, you've recently struck it rich, so in comparison we're all just poor slobs here. When is your moving date again? |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 696
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 5:14 pm: |
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John- Hope that you enjoy your visit next week. Having moved with my family to Maplewood when I was in junior high school many years ago, this is the town that my husband and I chose to buy in when we married. So, for over 40 years, Maplewood/ South Orange have served me and my family very well. You will find some of the nicest people around, here. They are friendly and helpful (and yes, sometimes very opinionated too). You will find every race and religion that you would ever want to know about here. You will find beautiful homes and great landscaped parks and terrific librarys and in my opinion, excellent public education. Within a ten minute drive there are some very good grocery stores. There is more than one really good oriental market within easy driving distance as well. Our crime rate is no more than what similiar towns nearby experience.
Please PL me if you and Mrs. John are in town and would like a tour by a private citizen.
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doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1165
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 5:39 pm: |
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John,
When we were considering moving here from Brooklyn (Park Slope), we took a tour from http://twotowns.org/
and appreciated the enthusiastic, non-realtor's view of things...we combined this with realtor visits.
best on luck on your quest!
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John Nance
Citizen
Username: Johnnance
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:35 pm: |
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My continued thanks for the comments.
It's not my intention to start an internicine battle about how many children from poor families attend the schools - let's just say that ANY poor people will be more than live in my current ZIP code, which is, per square foot, the most expensive in my county. The main concern I would have of any neighbourhood would be to ask the parents immediately around the house, what is the ratio of hours spent in your home watching television versus reading books? I don't care if they are poor or well-to-do. I think Tom Reingold is absolutely right about this one.
We will look at a home or two in Millburn, Chatham, etc. There is a home on Linden St in Millburn, just on the border with Maplewood, that looks very, very nice. Ultimately, the 'feel' of the community is going to be very important. |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:46 pm: |
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You might want to consider Edgewater and Fort Lee because of there large Asian populations, restaurants, supermarkets/stores and proximity to the city. There are a lot of really nice towns (Englewood, Teaneck, Weehawken) up there, but I live in Maplewood so clearly I like it better and can afford to live here. |
John Nance
Citizen
Username: Johnnance
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 6:54 pm: |
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Alley -
those places, when looking on the map, are just too far for my commute. I think South Orange is about as far as I would be willing to go. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7094
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 7:27 pm: |
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John:
If you have the time do try to contact the organization (CCR) Doulamomma refers to in her above post. The organization offers an excellent tour of South Orange/Maplewood which will take you through all parts of our two towns to give you a complete picture of the area. You will also find the volunteers who conduct these tours to be exceptionally knowledgeable about our community.
I would also suggest that you consult the Community Calendar (accessed through the MOL home page) for a listing of community activities which are being held during the week you will be here. Next week for example one of the local neighborhood associations is sponsoring a candidate forum for the up coming board of education election. This is a really good opportunity to learn about the issues of primary concern regarding our school system and some of the approaches being suggested for dealing with them.
Good luck in your search. Here's hoping you find the perfect home.
FYI: There is direct train service between Maplewood/South Orange and Basking Ridge on the Gladstone line if you would rather take the train than drive, assuming your place of employment is near the Basking Ridge train station. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1704
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 7:34 pm: |
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John,
We've lived here 7 years and it keeps getting better.
Other posters have weighed in on the schools and diversity, so I'll skip a lengthy treatise except to say that our experience with the M/SO schools has been excellent - the teachers, the curriculum and the lifelong friends my kids have made are just a few of many, many highpoints.
What I really love about Maplewood is that in many ways it's still an old-fashioned family-friendly town. Better than the "good old days" because people think and debate and aren't reluctant to address the problems (see MOL Soapbox for several examples) but for the most part, people stay.
Almost every neighborhood has sidewalks - people walk and socialize. While I have real "best friends" there are scores of people that I just "know" from walks and waving. For me, it's the casual interactions that really make Maplewood feel so welcoming.
My girls love it here, and it's very very safe. Kids still walk to their neighborhood schools - after 3:00 the village is full of 6th grade and older kids stopping for after school pizza and snacks...
well, you get the idea.
I don't want to sound too PollyAnna-ish, but IMO the quality of life here is delightful.
What I don't like?
1. The deer eat my garden, can't plant tulips if you live near the reservation.
2. Muggy and hot in July and August.
3. Cars drive too fast and don't stop for pedestrians, but it's getting better lately.
4. Election season
Good luck with whatever town you decide to settle down in.
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LibraryLady(ncjanow)
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 3088
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 7:46 pm: |
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Quote:would be to ask the parents immediately around the house, what is the ratio of hours spent in your home watching television versus reading books
Welcome to MOL John. South Orange and Maplewood are reknowned for have an inordinate number of book groups in relationship to its population.
The schools have, I believe, tv turnoff year, with various levels of participation.
The library in South Orange, while the physical plant is poor but being upgraded, is always busy. Last night alone we had three different programs running at the same time;one for kids and their parents, a book review group and a lecture/discussion on the Academy Awards.
We are a "reading' community!
Nancy
BTW, there are some South Orange residents living in Oakland Hills. If you are nearby, I'm sure they'd love to talk to you. |
Lester Jacobs
Citizen
Username: Lester
Post Number: 93
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 9:38 pm: |
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crabby,
We are putting the place up for sale this spring. My wife and I can't wait to move out. |
Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 300
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 9:48 pm: |
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John,
Is Montclair/Upper Montclair too far to commute? Remember it's a reverse commute. You could get a nice I mil house there and many of your social/diversiity issues satisfied.
I grew up there. I was educated in the PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
I turned out okay.
Of course, I think South Orange is the best.  |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1403
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:00 pm: |
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(belated response...)
Tom, S1701 is a dreadful law, but IMHO not as dreadful as California's Prop 13, which essentially froze property taxes except when a property was sold.
When I lived there in the late 80s, I rented a room in a 4 house court in Palo Alto. Two houses were occupied by senior citizens who paid property tax on an assessed value of about $150K. One was occupied by 50-somethings whose kids were out of college, and were paying taxes on an assessed value of $250 or 300K. The final house was occupied by a young couple with little kids, who were paying taxes on an assessed value of $500 or 600K. Basically, the law discriminated against anyone who had the gall to be young or need to move to a new home.
Even worse, it applied to commercial real estate also, so Macy's at the Stanford mall was also paying property tax on its 1978 valuation.
Once taxes were capped so drastically, the degradation of services began to follow.
S1701 is selectively dreadful to schools, while Prop 13 cut services across the board while creating huge taxation inequities. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1404
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - 10:27 pm: |
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John, as you can tell, most of us love it here (except for Lester, who is a resident grouch...I still remember the time that he posted to tell us that our high school students are ugly!).
Having spent a lot of years at Stanford, I think that if you liked the Palo Alto vibe, you are likely to like a Maplewood/South Orange vibe more than some of the suburbs further out, in my opinion. More collegiate feel, more ethnic food, more diversity (racial, sexual orientation, career choice, etc.).
By the way, the bilingual preschool is on Wyoming near the Maplewood/South Orange border.
www.bilingualbuds.com
Best of luck with your house hunting trip |
John Nance
Citizen
Username: Johnnance
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 8, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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Jersey:
Montclair I think is a bit too far; there are many attractive homes there, but the additional 10-15 minutes in my car just is unappealing.
Susan: your encapsulation of the effects of Prop 13 (and worse, its progeny) is pretty accurate. It is a pretty canonical example of how poorly run our state is - the legislature seems totally uninterested in doing anything other than voting to make Zinfandel the 'official' grape of California. Thus, problems fester until they become oozing sores, and the cure is ham-handed voter initiatives. I am told that, in the 1970s, rising property taxes literally were forcing older people out of their homes. So, rather than a sensible, nuanced solution, we got Prop 13. Let's say that the fellow across the street from me, whose house is twice the size of mine, with a 50 per cent larger lot, pays about 25% of the property taxes that I do. All because he had the good fortune to be born 30 years before I was. Oh, and when he gives his home to his son, the tax basis is transferred as well. Thus, as long as the home stays in his direct line, it will NEVER see a tax increase of more than 1%.
Thanks as well for the tip on the BilingualBuds pre-school. That looks like a very enticing option (our son is seven months old). |
Nancy S. Chu
Citizen
Username: Nancy_chu_remax
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 12:19 am: |
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As a pregnant Asian real estate agent in an interracial relationship living in Maplewood, I have to respond to issues about crime and schools in this town. These two towns are some of the best deals in housing that you can get with proximity to the city - you can get more house here for your money than just about anywhere, and still be in NYC in under 40 minutes - this is a HUGE thing - I can't get into the city this fast from Queens or Brooklyn! These two towns have always managed to be very successful with schools with an incredibly diverse population. Of course, with the new regulations of standardized testing, children of recent immigrants (which is a population we do have here) or of populations with traditionally a differing cultural emphasis on education are going to be at a disadvantage in standardized testing for mathematics and language! This doesn't mean the school's teaching methods and philosphies are problematic - as a matter of fact, these two towns spend a greater percentage of money per student in order to help develop better teaching methods and to keep their teachers at the top of their game. Columbia high school, which does have some issues, also produces Rhodes scholars! The tools are there for your child to excel - if you teach them well to learn, they will - if you leave them to languish, they will. People ask me all the time about schools in other towns - Verona, Nutley, the Caldwells - lovely towns, but also suburban in a somewhat insulated way. The population there is quite uniform - not a bad thing, just not what everyone is looking for. My point is, if you are looking for suburban safety and comfort without losing cosmopolitan population, this is a good place to land. As for crime, yeah, we get the occasional car window smashing or someone steals an I-pod, but a friend of mine got mugged in the afternoon in Larchmont - I guess multi-million dollar houses don't stop petty crime. You have to be smart no matter where you live - and we all know enough of our own kids run around town on their bikes and skateboards safely. There is no such thing as a perfect town or perfect house - you just have to decide what your priorities are in each and make the best decision you can. |
WendyP
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3210
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 8:14 am: |
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Very nicely said, Nancy.
Happy to welcome a new, rational, intelligent, informed poster to MOL! |
BGS
Citizen
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 731
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 8:35 am: |
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Nancy- I am printing out your post for future reference....Well said!!
Thanks!!!!
BGS |
Nancy S. Chu
Citizen
Username: Nancy_chu_remax
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:27 pm: |
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Thanks - sorry, I could write a virtual treatise on the school system - it's very important to me.
"The main concern I would have of any neighbourhood would be to ask the parents immediately around the house, what is the ratio of hours spent in your home watching television versus reading books? I don't care if they are poor or well-to-do. I think Tom Reingold is absolutely right about this one."
In reference to the above quote, ultimately, I have to say, the more important question is "How much time do YOU plan on letting your children watch TV verses reading?" I'm not trying to be flip, I am simply saying that proximity to water doesn't mean you know how to instinctually swim. Each family here has their own approach to child-rearing - and if one parent lets their child watch 3 hours of children's public television a day and reads with them for 1 hour after dinner, who is to say their child won't excel? I know a lot of parents around here, and they all have very different children and very different styles of parenting - all the kids seem pretty bright to me. Plus, if you really are that concerned that your talented and gifted child be surrounded by similar children, remember that like most systems across the country, the ones here are quite heavily tracked in the major academic categories of study. While not everyone agrees with tracking, objectively, it does mean that your child is surrounded by peers at a similar level - this promotes good (and negatively stressful) competition. This means they will develop their skills in relation to those around them in their smaller classes. My point is every school is going to have some kids who need a little extra attention and help, and they will not necessarily end up in all the same classes as kids who need a more accelerated program. Anecdotal statistics concerning one child's attraction to reading doesn't mean another child within close proximity will be attracted as well - it really does mostly depend on the rules and values you choose to set at home.
Sorry for the didactic tone - I used to teach kids with learning disabilities, behavioral disorders, etc... |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 447
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:33 am: |
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Nancy, how has the Market been so far in '06 in our towns? I've noticed everyone getting the Sale signs up in time after last weekends Spring weather.... |
Camnol
Citizen
Username: Camnol
Post Number: 271
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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So, John, how did your weekend of looking go? Did you make any decisions? |
Nancy S. Chu
Citizen
Username: Nancy_chu_remax
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:33 am: |
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Smarty - you are right on the money - we were a little quiet up until last weekend. It's always scary when the market is quiet because I always think it reflects the country's confidence in the economy, so I was a little worried that people were NOT feeling good. However, last Saturday, there was an instant jump in the number of buyers, which meant an instant infusion of energy into those looking to sell as well - who knew it was just a weather thing? One good thing is that I do think there will be a slight calming of those outrageous bidding wars - maybe only 3 offers per house rather than 11 - for most homes. Nutshell - market stable.
Yeah, John, let us know how it went this weekend - I want to know what you thought of our town and the others you visited?
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