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Message |
    
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6944
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 5:31 pm: | 
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I recall something last summer about the new fundraising method of NJ Courts, but can't remember the details.
I think that if you go to court to plea down points, there is now an insanely high surcharge. Has anyone done this or know what that charge is?
This was an illegal right turn in Irvington, which is 3 points. Has anyone had any luck pleading down in Irvington and how many points did you end up with?
Thanks. |
John Caffrey
Citizen
Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 120
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 8:22 pm: |
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The deal is that the courts are overwhelmed with case load. If the judge has to listen to eveyone's sob story, the poor political hack won't get out of court until late at night and won't get much sleep.
Sooo.. they usually offer a plea bargain wherein you (the perpetrator) agree not to take up the court's time in exchange for paying less money or lower points.
First you go to the court to meet with the prosecutor who probably will offer you the deal. If you like it, take it. If you don't think its a bargain, plead not guilty and take your chance.
However, don't expect justice. The object of the courts is not to make the roads safer but to raise revenue for the municipality. To support this contention, I refer to the case of the magistrate in Metuchen who was fired...not because he was unfair or a bad judge. Rather, he didn't bring enough money into the town's treasury.
I would like to see a situation where the rules are changed to require money to go to the state and not to the municipality.
Anyway, good luck and let us know how the outcome.
If you want further information, register and post on New Jersey Law Network.
JC |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6946
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 7:34 am: |
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Um, thanks, I think. I know the drill. What I need specific info on is the amount of the new court surcharge. It used to be: show up, plead down, pay court cost and fine. The result was the reduced points. Now there is some sort additional of fee associated with doing this.
And, don't you think that a teeny-tiny amount of the blame here goes to the insurance industry? I doubt that most people say to themselves "Hey, I have a 3-point, $85 dollar ticket. I think I'll go sit in court for 3 hours and take up the court's time". Fearing having insurance dropped or being raised $1000 per year has nothing to do with it, right?
And I'm in the good driver pool, with ZERO moving violations and 1 minor fender bender during an ice storm on my record, so don't go there.
BTW - the fee structure is not on the websites and I am curious to know if anyone has had actual experience and what they were able to get in Irvington. |
Purplebug
Citizen
Username: Purplebug
Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 9:04 am: |
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I believe that the surcharge is roughly $350.00. I was stopped by a blind police officer and I started to take her husk to court and fight it, but it was doubtful that I would win (notice my anger over the situation). Anyway, they look at your driving history. If you have a good driving record, they will usually erase the points, and chrge court costs + the surcharge. However, I believe there is a catch. Double check this info: if you are pulled over for another 2 pt or higher ticket within a certain period of time then you are BLASTED with 5 points, and then you pay a higher surcharge, and it is reported to the insurance agency. |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 617
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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Reduced to no points, with a total payment of $425 (or thereabouts). |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6959
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 12:22 pm: |
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Ouch! Handy - what was the citation for? |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 619
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 2:13 pm: |
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Driving while routering 
It was totally stupid - and the only ticket that I have ever gotten (which makes it even stupider because I previously had a squeaky clean record). I was in Livingston and needed to make a left turn onto Northfield from Livingston Ave. I couldn't get into the left turn lane because the cars stopped at the light extended back too far. Well, I was late for work so I gingerly and slowly crossed over the double yellow line (there was no oncoming traffic at the time) in order to access the left turn lane. Note that I did this RIGHT UNDER THE NOSE OF A POLICE CAR, who was clearly sitting there purely for revenue generating purposes. So beware motorists because I see people do this all the time. The ticket was $85 and 3 points. I took the deal and ended up with zero points, a smaller bank account ($425) and shame - oh, the shame!  |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1061
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 6:08 pm: |
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greenie, last spring, for modest speeding, my kid was permitted to plead down from 3(?) points to zero. I think the total cost was as noted above, about $400 for the new violation + court cost + the fee-for-plea. Sorry. Way cheaper than the insurance would have been, though, I think.
That was in Maplewood, good luck in Irvington.
MC |
Purplebug
Citizen
Username: Purplebug
Post Number: 149
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 8:00 pm: |
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Wow. I checked my records and paid $350, but this was early 2005. So this fee goes up every year just like property taxes? HA!! |
Natb
Citizen
Username: Natb
Post Number: 108
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 8:21 pm: |
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I am actually going to court tomorrow for a similar thing. I got my first speeding ticket ever and it is 2 points and $90 so I am going to try and plead down the points but now after hearing all of your stories I don't know if it would be worth it to pay $300-400 more. Does anyone know how much your insurance really goes up for a small speeding ticket? |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6970
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 11:09 pm: |
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It depends on your insurance company. I have NJM, so it means no more violations for 3 years or I get kicked out. Some companies raise you signficantly, others kick you out. It's criminal what auto insurers are able to get away with here for basically good drivers.
Those of us paying the $400 are not the ones driving up insurance costs.
Natb - where was your ticket & how much over the speed limit? Years ago, TS pled 4 points down to 2 (for $100, including court costs). It sounds like you weren't going that much over the limit & weren't in a school zone. For two points, I'd think about letting it go.
So, do we pay & go for 0 points or take the 3 points/$85 and spend the next 3 years driving like little old ladies?
Opinions? |
TomR
Citizen
Username: Tomr
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 12:09 am: |
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Have you looked into taking the points, and then taking a safe driver's course to get the points removed?
Just a thought.
TomR |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 346
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 7:08 am: |
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TomR
You beat me to it - take a drivers safety course (2 night classes) and you get a 2 point reduction. I did this a few years ago on a tailgating ticket (talk about a bullsh*t revenue ticket). I pleaded down to careless driving (I guess this was before they added the surcharge) to 2 points, took the night class and was point free. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13087
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 7:19 am: |
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What's wrong about a tailgating ticket? I think tailgating is usually more serious than speeding on a highway. I wish they ticketed for it more.
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newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 347
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 7:27 am: |
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When you're not tailgating....
Ship Bottom, NJ - Memorial Day weekend - 7 or 8 at night - 5 police cars on the side of the road pulling people over...you tell me they're not collecting revenue |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 623
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 9:51 am: |
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I didn't know that there WAS such a thing as a "tailgate ticket". I REALLY wish that they would ticket people for that more often. I hate tailgaters - aside from newone, that is  |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6975
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 10:17 am: |
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Yep, and it's 5 points. I agree that it is not done often enough.
I called the Irvington clerk. It took me an hour and a half to get thru. My ticket is not in the system yet. Call back at the end of the week.
Can I just ask you if the prosecutor ever pleas down and what the costs are?
I can't discuss this ticket until I see it.
But does the prosecutor ever plea down?
I can't discuss.....
Note to self: do not drive in Irvington.
I just should have stood on the corner and sold some crack. That I would have gotten away with. |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 625
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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It only took Livingston 1 day to get my ticket onto the system. Ahhhhhhhh Irvington.... I would expect that, unless you have a terrible record, the prosecutor will plead - saves court time and makes the town money. $85 v. $425 (in my case) is just nuts. |
Purplebug
Citizen
Username: Purplebug
Post Number: 152
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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I say take the ticket and the points. My earlier posted situation was my second offense. At that point I would have had 4 points on my license. It was better in my case to plead down. I agree with the others. If it really irritates you, take it and then take the defensive driving course. |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 628
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
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Although you may get a better plea if you have a clean record to start with (i.e. this time vs. when you already have points). If you bite the bullet and take the deal, you won't have to stress for the next three years about getting pulled over again. Whereas if you already have 3 or so points on your license, you might be more stressed about driving. Just a thought |
Purplebug
Citizen
Username: Purplebug
Post Number: 155
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
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Now this is where I got confused. Even though you plead down and pay the surcharge. Is there something that shows that you plead down and paid the surcharge? The prosecutor made it seem like if I got busted again within a certain period all points would be retroactively added back to my record. Also I think there is a lifetime amount of times you can plead. |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 630
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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Hmmmmm, don't know. I think that there is a maximum number of times that you can plead during a three year period. I guess I should have asked the prosecuter. |
Natb
Citizen
Username: Natb
Post Number: 109
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 1:50 pm: |
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Greenetree- I also have NJM so who knows what will happen now. They told me they only reevaluate once a year so I hope they don't kick me out until next year.
I went to court in Elizabeth this morning and it was a nightmare!! Was told be there at 8:45 and then they didn't start until 9:30. The prosecuter called me at 9:45 and told me she would knock it down to 0 points for $400!! I said forget and walked away. I will just have to wait and see what happens with our insurance.
Does anyone know how you find out about the driver class? |
newone
Citizen
Username: Newone
Post Number: 352
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 3:19 pm: |
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Natb - I took the drivers class at SOMS for 2 nights (total of maybe 3 to 4 hours). Basically, it is a joke - you listen to the instructor..I don't recall if there were any exams or not and you get a certificate stating you went to the class.
Handygirl -  I also hate tailgaters - with my ticket, I can honestly say I wasn't tailgating. My word against the cops so you know how that would turn out. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6985
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 3:31 pm: |
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I seem to recall reading somewhere that the point reduction classes don't carry any weight with the insurance company. I remember thinking "what's the point"?
I think we'll go with paying the fine, taking the points, being really careful and staying out of Irvington. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6986
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 3:39 pm: |
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Nat - don't worry about NJM since this is your first offense. Unless you are a new customer, they'll let it go. I'd been a customer for about 6 years when TS got her ticket. It was the first thing on either of our licenses. Then, I had the at fault fender-bender. With two incidents in a short time, I got letter reminding me that "even good customers go thru bad times" and to be careful. It was the nicest "don't do it again" letter I've ever gotten. And I still got my year end dividend check.
I think that NJM realizes that traffic happens to good people and if they eliminated everyone who ever had a single moving violation in NJ, they wouldn't have many customers. |
Proud Daddy
Citizen
Username: Proud_daddy
Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
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It is amazing how much our culture has changed that only one or two MOLers above actually complained about the dollar amount. In essence what has happened is that you will pay a huge chunk of money, regardless if you are guilty or not. There is less of a check and balance to the officer pulling you over. Once the ticket is written, the municipality generates revenue.
In the middle of hearing my wife's case, the Maplewood judge actually stopped and told her that the surcharge is strictly a revenue generator and has nothing to do with innocence. My wife only innocently asked why she had to pay $400 when she did not do anything wrong.
Something is very wrong indeed... |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7014
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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I agree. I can't say that the illegal turn was not made (in my case). But since only good drivers are eligible to even plea down, it is grossly unfair and unjustly punative.
In comparison, drivers with multiple points (dangerous drivers) pay a $100 surcharge. What the hell is the logic in that? |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2345
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 1:40 pm: |
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I got a speeding ticket a month and a half ago (the first one in over ten years and no other violations ever) and its a 4 pt. ticket. I plead not guilty and hope to have the charges reduced to unsafe driving. Is it possible to contact the prosecutor prior to going to court? If so how does one do so? I'll gladly pay the $400 fine to avoid the increase to my insurance. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7016
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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You don't need to contact them ahead. Just show up. It's part of the game. It seems that most speeding tickets find that the driver was going enough over the speed limit to give a 4pt ticket. It encourages you to go to court and plead down to 2. |
mjc
Citizen
Username: Mjc
Post Number: 1064
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 2:17 pm: |
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Actually, I believe the surcharge for multiple points is now $225 a year for multiple years. I wish I did not know this. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7018
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 2:39 pm: |
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Then DMV needs to update the website. But, it's still cheaper than the Plea Extortion Fee. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2346
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 2:49 pm: |
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I guess you need to look at your policy and see what discounts apply to your premium. I think you'd be very surprised at the discount you get for being a good driver. The premium discount for being a "good" driver on my car is almost 2K every six months. So its worth it for me to plead guilty to a lesser charge, pay the lousy $400 and chalk it up to stupidity on my part. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7020
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 3:05 pm: |
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Sports- no question. I think what blows my mind is that the PEF is cheaper than the bad driver assessment.
My insurance allows me very occassional indiscretions. Otherwise, you bet we'd be paying the $400. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1060
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 3:19 pm: |
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Sportsnut , normally they do a triage before the judge shows , they call your name , in order of your listing it on a legal pad {the 1st thing you do is get there early & find the pad} once your name is called, you have a little conversation with a court officer , they lay out the plea deal, you @ that point say ya or nay . The judge shows , the ya's get called in order of the legal pad that said ya. Judge gives a short speech , go pay the window check or CC . |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1061
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 3:29 pm: |
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BTW, Sports , How fast ? My personal best is 116 on gsp 77', 70' GS stage 1. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7022
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 3:43 pm: |
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Jet - I think it depends on the court. When I went in Maplewood, they asked for everyone who was there with a lawyer to come to the front. Then, they asked for everyone there to see the prosecutor (pretty funny; 3/4 of the room got up). These were the traffic pleas, but it was done in the order of the line. You are right about the judge waiting until all that was done, tho.
At the time, I was challenging a ticket for home alarm, so I was there until the very end. The sweetest little old lady was there. She'd been arrested for possession of heroin, found in her bedrrom. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1062
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 4:14 pm: |
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Hey greentree, you ever see people line up on their own in a Newark court ? Hence the pad. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2347
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 4:14 pm: |
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Jet, I was "only" doing 85. He gave me a ticket for 84 though.
Did you actually get a ticket for going that fast?
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jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1063
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 4:29 pm: |
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Yea, sports , it was back in day when the Man didn't freak out & make you kiss the asphalt for throwing gum out the window. It was night time ,summer 77 ' head'in down the shore somewhere between 117 & 114 , he lit the lights up , I pulled it down as best I could , turn'ed off the engine, put the interior lites on, my hands on top of the steering wheel & listened to the speech , he wrote me up for 116. They suspended that licence . |
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