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Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 12:50 pm: | 
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TS and I are considering buying a new car and would like your advice. Please keep in mind we haven't started to look yet AND neither of us are car afficionados and couldn't name any specific model to you.
We would like something big enough to fit 2 adults in the front and room for a child in the back and a dog (even further in the back). TS doesn't think it is a good idea to have the dog and child together -- I'm not sure how I feel about that to be honest.
TS is considering a Minivan. We both like cool features and so she is mystified and attracted with the one where the back seats magically disappear into the floor. With the rising prices of gas, I'm terrified of anything big and ostentacious. Having said that, I did have my eye on the Nissan Murano a few years back. The geek in me has always been fascinated with the hybrids, and IF gas prices sky rocket then they might be worth the extra price tag.
So I'm not sure, do I embrace the big beast SUV craze (maybe pick up an older model new one for a steal since they are no longer en vogue)? Give in to my wife's desire for a Minivan (which she keeps insisting isn't actually large...yeah right!)? Or do we look into something a bit smaller like a hatchback or (gasp...!!!) a station wagon? TS hates the Scion B because it's boxy but I find myself wondering if it or the Honda Element might work? I guess something like the Toyota Matrix has most of the things I'm thinking about 4 door, relatively reasonable price with a back area for the dog.
Anyone a bit more in the (car) know want to provide some suggestions for us to start looking at? |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 2884
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 1:05 pm: |
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I have a Subaru Outback wagon and it has been awesome for 2 adults, 2 kids and 2 dogs. Any of the wagons or small SUV's do this job fine. Other examples are the VW Passat, Audi A4/A6, Subaru Forrester, Honda CRV, Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute.
Now with 2 kiddos it does get tight if we ever have to cart someone else along. As in a 5th person does not fit in between 2 car seats. So if you wanted to go bigger the top minivans are the Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssy. I also like the Honda Pilot (SUV with 3 rows but not huge) and Toyota Highlander. The Highlander in particular is built on a sedan chassis so it "feels" smaller than a normal SUV/Minivan (it is really a cross between the two) but it does have 3 rows of seats when you need them.
I think the main way to answer whether you need a big suv/minivan is to ask yourself these questions:
- Is this your only car?
- Are you going to keep this car for a long time?
- If you have another car, what is it?
If it were me, I'd go with a wagon or small suv for the time being. You won't really need that much more space (or 3 rows) unless you have multiple kids. And they are a beast to drive, at least from my perspective. Then if and when you need to upgrade get rid of your other car to get the bigger model. But if you only plan on having one car, maybe get a smaller "large" car like a 3 row Highlander.
I know nothing about the Nissan Murano, although friends have a Chrystler Pacifica that is similar and they love it. The Element is cool looking and might work, check it out.
Good luck! |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2571
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 1:24 pm: |
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If I didn't have my Pacifica, with which I'm in serious "like," I'd be looking at the Chevrolet HHR (very cool looking) and the Dodge Caliber (vcl). I'd wanted a PT Cruiser at one point, but too little now. I'd wanted a Volvo Wagon just cuz. But, I like the looks of these 2 new ars.
I like the boxy cars but I couldn't win that battle in my family. |
peteglider
Citizen
Username: Peteglider
Post Number: 1889
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 1:29 pm: |
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The reality is that minivans are utterly practical (far more so than any SUV), and utterly car like, even luxury car like. Better seating, more storage, etc. They get superior mileage than SUVS (compared to Exploers, etc). But, they are not "cool" of course. If I had younger kids (with friends/team/etc.), dog, and occasional camping -- a mini van would be my first choice.
I know a couple of owners of Matrix (and its twin, the Pontiac Vibe) -- great cars. Very practical. Can hold a very large drum set with ease!
Hybrids continue to be debunked -- with novel "green" appeal, of course, but ultimately there is no ROI -- higher purchase, service and insurance rates mean they make no economic sense (Consumer Reports had a detailed ROI analysis recently, NY Times an article within the past 10 days).
My ex-wife has a Murano, very nice car indeed. But, like every SUV, gets far worse gas mileage than advertised. And because is has such a raked back, really not more storage than the trunk of a large sedan. Completely reliable.
How about a *cool* station wagon, like a Sportwagon from Saab? The 9-3 model is new this year, the 9-5, been around a few years, but is restyled. Both, with 4 cylinder turbocharged engines, will give FAR better gas mileage in the real world than any SUV. On the highway (if I don't push it to 80 - 85 mph!), I easily get 32 mpg, more if I keep my speed down (9-5 wagon). The 9-5 has more storage capacity in the back than typical SUVs, too.
The April issue of Consumer Reports is the annual car issue -- lists lot of key info -- especially repair records and safety. I think its on the stands no(undfortunately, their web site is pay access only!)
Good luck and have fun with your choice
Pete |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2754
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 1:40 pm: |
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We started thinking about a Mazda6 wagon, and checked one out last night. Really, really nice - luxurious, fast, handles beautifully, great stereo, etc. Nicer than the Outback in many ways. We are very torn ourselves - get an outback like every third house in Maplewood, or get something sporty? Mazda, with a 215 hp V-6 gets virually the same mileage as the outback because you aren't lugging around all-wheel-drive that gets used for a couple hours a year.
If it were not for the fact that we spend a week in the mountains and tow a small boats sometimes, it would be Mazda all the way. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 3785
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 1:40 pm: |
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We love our Honda CRV |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 2885
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 1:43 pm: |
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Definitely get the CR issue.
Also test drive a bunch, only way to know what you are most comfortable with.
I love minivans, but if you don't even have one kid yet it is kind of overkill. By the time you get to the point of needing it (5+ years and multiple kids later) you will want to replace it with a cooler, newer model.
Also forgot the BMW 3 series has a wagon (as does the 5 series). Don't forget the Volvo if you like boxy. You could get a nice luxury wagon and do the minivan thing in a few years.
FYI...when I fold my Outback seats down I can fit a ton of stuff. I've hauled dressers, a 9' sofa (ok about a foot stuck out the back) and other stuff. It is pretty amazing. |
Ond
Citizen
Username: Ond
Post Number: 103
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 2:04 pm: |
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If you want a cheap option, I bought a Hyundai Elantra hatchback for my drive to work car. So far no complaints. We also have a minivan, but we've started to use the Elantra for longer trips as well. It fits two adults, two kids in the back seat, plus the 70 lb mutt behind the seat comfortably.
Of course, there's nothing like the versatility of the minivan though. Mazda now makes one that's a little smaller than the rest. Mazda5 I think. It's probably worth looking at. |
red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5212
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 2:17 pm: |
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I had a Dodge Minivan and I loved/hated it. I HATE the minivan with a passion. That said, it drove like a car, was very easy to manuver. (the largest car I drove before this was a sedan) It was great for putting multiple kids in; you could actually walk inside to the back of the car. Very roomy.
Now I have a Ford Explorer, which I love as well. The gas mileage is horrible, huge downside. It drives nice, has an opptional third row, and was priced fairly well. The other downside is getting the kids in and out, much more difficult than a minivan. |
wnb
Citizen
Username: Wnb
Post Number: 355
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 2:25 pm: |
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Get yourself a Jetta Wagon with the TDI (diesel) engine. Amazing mileage, amazing reliability, and just enough of the room you need.
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mrmaplewood
Citizen
Username: Mrmaplewood
Post Number: 324
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 2:42 pm: |
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Think hard before going for the cheap SUV. The experts today are calling for summer gasoline prices above $2.60 a gallon, and not too much downside probability afterwards. Also, I agree with peteglider about the hybrids. Over hyped and unproven in the long term. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13370
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 2:52 pm: |
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I think the Jetta TDI seems perfect, for many reasons. Fuel use is lower than the others. A station wagon is great for cargo, and the dog can be separate from the kid.
Don't dismiss hatchbacks, though. I had three Saab hatchbacks. It was astonishing what I could put in there. I called it a lady's shoe, because it was small on the outside and big on the inside.
The trouble is, there is only one hatchback and there are no station wagons with hybrid engines. The Prius is a hatchback.
There is a Lexus RX330 (I think) SUV with a hybrid engine. That must be nice, but I bet it's expensive.
From what I've read, minivans don't get better fuel efficiency than SUV's but you get so much more for your gas guzzling. The ride, handling, and interior space are far better than in an SUV. I've ridden in a few and rented a few. What peteglider said is true. It really is a luxury car, with the room and comfort inside. They should market these cars as luxury cars, because I think they beat things like the Town Car for comfort. And the handling is so much better than you would expect. I rented a Ford Freestar (stupid name) for a week and tried so hard to dislike it but couldn't. It was super.
With all that said, I don't understand the practice of buying a new car. I don't think I'll ever do it. The premium you pay for peace of mind is huge. And still, many new cars come with defects. You don't have to pay to get them fixed, but you do have to take the time.
I have a Subaru wagon now, and it's good, but the fuel efficiency is disappointing. I get a little less than 24 mpg overall, after a little over a year of recording every gas purchase.
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red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5216
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 3:07 pm: |
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Tom be happy with 24, I get around 14 miles and I drive between 60 and 150 miles a day... |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13371
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 3:15 pm: |
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Wow, that's a lot of driving. I drove 19,000 over the past year, which is more than I'd like to. The industry could do more, and it would, if we demanded it. My cow-orker has a Jetta gas engine sedan with the 1.8L turbo engine. He gets way over 30 mpg. The back seat is cramped, though.
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red
Citizen
Username: Redy67
Post Number: 5217
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 3:20 pm: |
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I was debating on trading in for a Jetta. My job came up suddenly and we weren't planning on buying a new car. With the family we need the three row seats, and are still paying it off. My hubby's car is worth nothing, so buying a new/used car right now is not really an option. |
Lizziecat
Citizen
Username: Lizziecat
Post Number: 1143
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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We have a Murano, which we like a lot. It's very roomy and comfortable in front, which is important to us because we're both big people. There's a lot storage room in the trunk, and we can out three grand children comfortably into the back seat. Gas mileage is around 19. Mostly used by Mr. Lizziecat, who does a great deal of long-distance driving. We also have a Jeep Liberty which gets really bad mileage. Don't get one.
Speaking of dogs in the car, I've seen seatbelt/harness arrangements for dogs, which keep them from jumping all over the car or hanging out the window. Seems to me, if you're going to have a dog in a car, that those are a good idea. |
catmanjac
Citizen
Username: Catmanjac
Post Number: 112
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 4:09 pm: |
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My 1999 Subaru Legacy Wagon is the worst piece of dreck I've ever owned. 28 days in the shop the first year, and they still wouldn't acknowledge problems with the a/c or the rear-view mirror. Had to repair the a/c privately, and the seal on the compressor is now shot. Rearview mirror won't stay in place. Original tires lasted 24000 miles, with 5 flats. I put on Michelins. I'd sooner buy a horse. |
Peter
Supporter
Username: Peter
Post Number: 233
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 4:47 pm: |
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the CR-V has a small tank and gets remarkably poor gas mileage for its size. The Chrysler Town and County, where the third row of seats disappears) has large and unadjustable seats (at least at the trim level I recently rented). Our 1996 Passat Wagon was a total POS in so many ways -- over $5000 in unscehduled maintenance in two years, although some of it was probably "bumper fluid." Avoid all VW products made after 1965 (40 HP and six volts were extremely reliable). |
Virtual It Girl
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 4227
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 5:21 pm: |
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We have an MPV and like it for it's size (not too big but holds 7) and I think it handles just fine. Price was right too! It's a 2001 and we bought it new from DCH in 2002, so we got a great deal.
The one thing I HATE about it is it's impossible in the snow, and the gas mileage is not so great. Maybe 18/23.
My ideal car has AWD, better gas mileage and can hold 7 passengers. I looked into the Subaru Tribeca, but gas mileage is no better. Plus, it's a lot more $ the the van was and since I really don't take such great care of my car, not sure if I want to spend so much more.
Haven't had any problems in 4 years, so I can't complain. Luckily it doesn't snow much!
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Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 765
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 5:41 pm: |
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I recommend an AWD minivan, by far.
I've had an Odyssey and am now on my second Sienna (my first was rear-ended and "totalled" and I walked away without a scratch! That car did it's job! The frame was buckled, but nothing even touched the third row seats, which is where your dog would be.)
I got rid of the Odyssey b/c even with $500 snow tires, I could not get up our not-very-steep hill in the winter - very scary sometimes with kids in the car!
Have been through two winters in a Sienna, and have traveled to ski in VT and to visit family in way-upstate NY. It handles just beautifully in the snow.
The Sienna is the only minivan to offer AWD, and it is worth every penny imo. We also have the DVD entertainment, which is heaven-sent for long 6+ hour trips (we just won't use it for short trips and the kids accept that - if you stay consistent they don't turn into car-couch-potatoes.)
A good friend of mine had the Honda pilot (they live on a steeper hill) and they just had their 3rd child and the pilot couldn't handle it. Plus imo the "third row" seat in the Pilot is a death-trap in a rear end collision! Seriously consider the available space in the rear if someone, dog included, will be riding back there! I highly recommended they check out the AWD Sienna and they did and they bought one and love it!
Not sure how old your child is, but we are constantly using all four seats to accomodate playdates for our two kids. Plan ahead for your child's friendships too.
The rear space in the Sienna is really versatile and convenient! We regularly put both kids' two-wheelers back there with no problem. You can't do that in a Subaru or a Pilot, or even some minivans like the Kia Sedona!
Our mileage is quite reasonable, although it is better if you used higher octane gas. I always fill up with "super" and change my oil at least every 5K miles and the car runs like a dream and is a pleasure to drive. Very luxury feeling inside, very similar to a Lexus. I'd suggest you test drive one.
FYI, we were out of pocket about $5K after the accident due to depreciation and couldn't get a break from any local Toyota dealers so, my spouse flew to Wisconsin and bought our car from Wilde Toyota (800 mile drive!) Including airfare, one night in a motel, and gas we still saved over $2,000 vs. the cost of buying in NJ. Still was able to get the 4 year inspection sticker for NJ, too!
Oh, and another feature my version of the Sienna has is a rear-view backup camera, which has prevented me from backing over our recycling bin (I had left it there to put in the car next time I came out and forgot) - a very nice safety addition! |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11125
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 5:51 pm: |
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Confused yet? 
The first step on the old decision tree is size. How small is to small? Do all four of you hop in the car (with luggage) and take a two week vacation? There is also a safety factor involved here. Like it or not bigger is safer for the occupants.
Unless you want to put the dog in a trunk, you need a station wagon, mini-van or SUV. Over the years we have leased two Plymouth Grand Voyagers, a Ford Explorer and a Mercury Mountaineer. Our last Voyager (with 3.8 litre engine) got about one more mile per gallon than the Explorer we replaced it with. Not all that significant for us, since we drive under 10,000 miles per year.
Many women wouldn't be seen dead in a mini-van because it screams "Soccer Mom". Most guys hate them because they are not "cool". Also, a three seat mini-van doesn't have much cargo space behind the third seat, although if you remove or fold the seats some let you lay in 4x8 sheets of plywood flat.
I agree that hybrids don't make economic sense. Buying one is making an ecological statement, which is fine.
Decisions, decisions, decisions! I just can't make decisions. 
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Jason
Citizen
Username: Jason
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 6:16 pm: |
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Just to throw another option into the mix: Toyota just announced the 2007 Camry Hybrid - 40mpg and a base price of $25,900, a good $5000 less than the Accord Hybrid. |
Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 770
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 3, 2006 - 6:22 pm: |
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Bob K, the Sienna has a LOT of room behind the third row seat - there is a deep well that the third row seats can fold down into, in a versatile and convenient partial 2/1 configuration, btw. I believe the only mini to come close to it is the Odyssey, which isn't available in AWD. Two 24" two-wheelers easily fit in that well without folding down the seats!
I was stuck in a Sedona for 5 weeks (it took the insurance co. over a month to declare my car a total loss, grrrr!) and compared to the Sienna it drove like a truck and had minimal room behind the third row.
Not all minivans are created equal, and frankly their price tags reflect that. |
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