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melicious
Citizen
Username: Melicious
Post Number: 386
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:44 am: | 
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My ten-year-old child has ALWAYS had problems making friends. She is
a delightfully compassionate, generally shy child, who just doesn't "get it"
when it comes to social stuff.
She is gifted and physically impaired (mildly) which puts her in two skewed subsets of the pop.
I have been trying to invite kids over, but she doesn't "follow up" with them at school. She'll be entering 6th grade. Is it time for me to kinda let
the chips fall where they may?
She is one of those kids that you KNOW is going to have tons of friends as an adult (smart, kind, giving) but right now, the pre-teen bitch factor is kicking into high gear and having any physical thing sets her/anyone back.
She has one friend who is (literally) frought with emotional issues. That's it.
I just don't know if I should continue to act as her social secretary or if she's getting to old.
Man, this is a toughy to watch.
Thanks for any suggestions |
Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 3969
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:56 am: |
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Melicious,
This is a tough one but I think you will find that by the time they get to Middle School and even before that, the whole playdate thing comes to a halt. When kids get to Middle School they try to test their independence and one way they do this is by deciding who they want to hang out with. Parents inevitably lose some control over who their kids are friends with.
The best advice I can give is to urge your daughter to be involved in some activities where she can meet other kids and keep the lines of communication open betwen you two. Middle School is definitely a tough time. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3206
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:57 am: |
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I know it's hard. Yes, in a way, it's time to let the chips fall where they may. But, let me ask, at what does she excell, or love? Is it possible to enroll her in a club/group in that area of interest? |
kmk
Supporter
Username: Kmk
Post Number: 1137
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:02 am: |
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These years will pass and things will get MUCH better.
I survived sixth grade and blossomed in the junior high (seventh grade) when I redefined all things about myself. I was very unattractive (this was Texas where looks are all important) and slightly out sync with everyone else. My parents were very hands off on my social ineptitude. They were supportive of me but, unlike my neighbors, they didn't bribe people to play with me. I was later envied by many for being "independent, creative and unique". (And suddenly my ungainly height became an asset as well.)
Encourage confidence and independence. At this age the cliques do more harm than good for many kids.
(FYI: The neighbor's kid, who was Miss Popular in highschool because her mother would do things like buy all the boys on the football team boxer shorts with hearts on them, is now 33 years old with an ankle bracelet on house arrest in her parents house. Seems that somehow here\ family forgot to prepare her for "real life" without a pre-paved road ahead!) |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13447
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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My younger kid is gifted though not physically impaired. Her social life blossomed from virtually nothing to virtually always with friends after hitting middle school. Sometimes, we have to put clamps on her social life because it gets to be too much and gets in the way of other things.
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melicious
Citizen
Username: Melicious
Post Number: 387
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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Thanks so much.
She has joined the newspaper, a service organization, and won a play-writing competition (that enables her to direct her play). HOWEVER, she doesn't ever ask any of those kids over or hang out with them.
I guess she is around other people, if not WITH other people.
Bribing kids, huh...just kidding!
Thanks again!
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juju's petals
Citizen
Username: Jujus_petals
Post Number: 240
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 12:47 pm: |
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Melicious, sounds like you are trying to do the right thing and probably are. I'm wondering, however, if she's as concerned about this issue as you are. You know, is she lonely? Did she say she wants more friends or more frequent social engagements?
As a mom myself, I often have a hard time untangling what I want for my children from what he and she want for themselves. I know sometimes they don't know what they want, but isn't figuring that out for themselves part of growing up, too? |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3485
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:11 pm: |
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I definately agree with juju. Both of my parents were very popular, social, outgoing people. I was (and still am) more shy--a bit of a loner. The worst thing they did was to make me feel like there was something wrong with me for being that way. Just keep letting your daughter know how much you value and love her, regardless of how many friends she does or does not have, and everything will probably work itself out in the end. She sounds like she has interests outside the home that will probably help her in the long run.
I would say you've done your best for her, and now it's just time to let her be whoever she is. |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3486
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:13 pm: |
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I'm also a big believer that children internalize behavior they see modeled in the home. So if you are happy and confident in whatever friendships you have, she will learn from that. It just may take a little time for her to learn to do it herself. |
BGS
Supporter
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 889
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:36 pm: |
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Melicious- one of the worst mistakes I made when my girls were younger was not following their lead...and not listening more...I was always concerned about whether they had enough friends, why they did not want more school mates invited to spend the night etc...They were moving at their own pace...when it was right for them, they started to have people come to our house and as they moved in to CHS spent hours on the phone...Today, in their early 20's, both are socially adept and have good friends that they hooked up with in middle school...
My only advice to you is to listen and watch...she will let you know what she needs.
Godspeed,
Barbara |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2584
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:42 pm: |
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Agree with everyone on middle school fixing much of this. We came to the district in second half of fourth grade, and many kids had been at the school since first grade. Had already established their best friends, cliques and what not. Close to impossible to break into, even with joining a team sport and similar. My kid was always the third or fourth best friend, never the first. Now, it's different and exactly coincided with middle school. Many of the kids elementary school patterns got shook up, and new friendships formed. I think this is enhanced for advanced kids, where there starts to be more opportunity to be with kids of like interests (as opposed to seeming geeky, if there's not enough "geeks" in your immediate class). |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2585
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:46 pm: |
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If she wants to (and only if she wants to), allow her/buy her a kick butt outfit and haircut for some school occasion. My kid was teased mercilessly for her (then) buck teeth/overbite, more childish attire and shortness. For 5th grade "graduation" I bought her a too-expensive totally cool dress, earrings, shoes and got her hair done. She shyly walked up to the school, past some of the girls who were doing a mini-"Mean Girls" thing on her and the actually complimented her, etc. I guess they didn't think she had it in her. Showed them. |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 663
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:48 pm: |
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Good luck Melicious - you are doing the right thing in encouraging and supporting your daughter's interests and involvement in outside activities. They will be a good way for her to get to know other kids who have similar interests. And she will develop friendships at her own pace. I also agree with BGS and Meand in that it is so hard to separate yourself and what you are about from that of your kids. My daughter seems to be more shy than I was growing up (although she may still grow out of it). I really try not to push her to do things that make her uncomfortable, but sometimes I find myself doing just that. I know that, even at 3 1/2, I have to follow her lead to some extent. It is hard though.
Consider that while your daughter does not have many friends right now, she may be the sort that, when she does make friends, she keeps them forever vs. those that develop more superficial relationships throughout life. If that's the case, its a good thing. |
melicious
Citizen
Username: Melicious
Post Number: 388
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:01 pm: |
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Yup. You're all correct. I am going to stand back a bit. I was one of the only kids I know that had a great time in Middle School. I just got into a sociopathic "don't care what they think" kinda zone - and it worked for me. So I hear ya, when you say separate the "me" from the "her." Good call.
Its so funny, cynical girl, her god-father took her shopping at the beginning of the year to get "sick" clothes and she asked me to color her hair with purple streaks (i'm for anything temporary - hair grows). Its all about the 'tude, though. She is too sweet for that to "play." So, she's back to yoga pants and t-shirts.
She will absolutely be the most sought after grown-up friend, when she gets there. I just hate that she cries all the time about her lack of friends.
Thanks all.
m |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1641
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:06 pm: |
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melicious,
You may have a writer on your hands. |
Psychomom
Citizen
Username: Psychomom
Post Number: 98
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:10 pm: |
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Handygirl you are right. And I also would echo the sentiments of BGS et al that we parents need to follow the lead of the child no matter how hard that may be.
There may also be issues with some of the kids you are picking as friends. I remember my mom pushing me to go to a party for my homeroom teacher that was leaving CHS...I wasn't friends with anyone in homeroom as I was always in clubs and things and seldom in home room so I didn't want to go. I finally prevailed and it was a good thing because said teacher ended up smoking pot with the kids and I wasn't a druggie. My mom had no idea about the subcultures that existed. If someone was nice and polite and smiled to her they were great even if behind the scenes they were into drugs, sex or other things we parents dread. Kids are devious creatures ;)
Good luck and remember this too shall pass
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melicious
Citizen
Username: Melicious
Post Number: 389
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:21 pm: |
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NOT A WRITER!!!! GASP!!!
she's a writer, all right. the play writing thing was for 7th and 8th graders. she won as a 5th grader. she also won something from cricket magazine. its the only thing keeping her going these days - we try to focus her, and our, thoughts on that.
thanks all. i will take the deep breath. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13460
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:25 pm: |
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Yes, she's a writer, all right. Check out Stone Soup magazine, too. All of the material is by kids under about 13.
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Pdg
Citizen
Username: Pdg
Post Number: 829
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:31 pm: |
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You might want to check out the Summit Center for Learning on Morris Ave. in Springfield (973) 564-9552.
The do socialization classes with kids, among other things; it may help.
It is run by a woman who wrote a great book about kids and their friendships.
Quote:Natalie Madorsky Elman, PhD, is co-author of The Unwritten Rules of Friendship. Dr. Elman has more than twenty years of experience as director of the Summit Center for Learning in New Jersey. She is a certified learning consultant and speech pathologist who leads social skills training groups for Children. She also consults for many private and public schools and has been a consultant to the New Jersey Department of Education. Her co-author and colleague, Dr. Eileen Kennedy-Moore is a psychologist working with children, adults, and families in Westfield, New Jersey
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ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 1643
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:32 pm: |
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Melicious, your daughter sounds just fine, and you sound like a great mom -- you want the best for her and you want her to be happy.
I think it is fantastic that she is a writer! Writers, however, live a lot in their own heads, and are frequently not "gotten" by their peers. This does not mean anything is wrong with her, it just means her path will be a little different.
I, too, agree with the posters above who suggest following her lead. She will be just great.
A dash of personal experience: I moved to South Orange just before 4th grade. I spent a miserable three years in elementary school, but I was a writer, so I made it OK. Then I went to junior high (as it was back then) and everything changed. Everything. It is possible that, when your daughter gets to middle school, she will be exposed to more and will be open to more and thus will have a much more social experience. |
Handygirl
Citizen
Username: Handygirl
Post Number: 664
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 2:40 pm: |
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Mel- I feel for you! Just give her lots of love and support and try to keep her focused on the big picture that is life beyond middle and high school.
And being that she is a writer, she can use these sad times as foder. I suspect that all successful writers have to go through some hard times, right? I'm trying for the cup half full and all of that.
Also, are there local kids acting or writing groups in the area? I would think that kids belonging to those types of organizations might be more accepting. Maybe she just hasn't found many kids that she connects with. Kids that age tend to be so superficial and petty (especially girls) - which would be tough for a sensitive, intellectual child. |
soresident
Citizen
Username: Soresident
Post Number: 369
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 5:27 pm: |
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"I just hate that she cries all the time about her lack of friends."
I'm not sure I agree with all that's been said, in light of this statement you made. If your child is currently that unhappy, I'm not sure I would wait till next September and hope middle school resolves the issue. The suggestion by Pdg about socialization class sounds very interesting. I know the social work interns used to run a similiar sounding program at South Mountain. Perhaps her current 5th grade teacher could give you some clues as to what may be happening in the classroom socially? Perhaps your pediatrician could suggest a child therapist who could help her feel better about this? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13469
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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sheandtheboys said: So if you are happy and confident in whatever friendships you have, she will learn from that. It just may take a little time for her to learn to do it herself.
The subtext of that is if there is something to be unhappy about, such as some sort of dysfunction, it could explain why she doesn't invite friends home. I figure that's what was going on with us, as it was during my first marriage, and my ex-wife didn't behave very, um, normally. And kids with disabled or alchoholic family members often keep their families and friends separate. I just read an article about a kid who had a severely autistic sibling, and all the doors were kept closed and the kid rarely had friends at home. The kid was unable to express his misgivings about the idea of bringing friends home, and the parents were unaware of it.
Of course, I don't know you, so I'm not saying your family is dysfunctional nor that your daughter thinks you are. I'm just following up on the above quote. It could open doors to learning how your daughter feels.
The fact that she's crying about it made me sad. It must hurt a lot.
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melicious
Citizen
Username: Melicious
Post Number: 390
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 6:07 pm: |
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We're not any more dysfunctional than anyone else - 'Course my satanic worship nights and shoplifting will have to stop...
The home setting isn't a barrier, I don't think. My younger kid, the social butterfly (don't think I don't notice the oldest's envy of that), has kids over all the time.
The friend-making issue is pervasive. The teacher reports problems, her girl scout leader reports problems...She doesn't have friends at school or any other settings. We have enlisted the advice of teachers and such and we're all promoting, without pushing, and supporting without forcing.
We have also made it a point to offer neutral turf as an option, thinking "maybe going to a beading place will stimulate conversation or interaction."
Thanks again. Lots of stuff to think about. |
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1610
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 6:44 pm: |
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All of my friends now, most of which I consider to be EXTREMELY COOL, were outcasts in elementary, middle and high school. I think she is joining the ranks of the cool kids, she just doesn't know it yet. I guess the teen angst pays off in the end. It certainly did for me. I suspect even if you daughter is moody and unhappy now (as me and my friends were growing up) it will serve her well as an artist and a person later in life. It will help her to be a more compassionate person too, because she will understand to a certain degree that not everyone is a happy little cookie cut-out of a person. I say relax, it's normal. Not everyone can be popular nor does everyone want to be that way. |
Joan
Supporter
Username: Joancrystal
Post Number: 7216
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 6:52 pm: |
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Melicious:
Your daughter sounds a lot like my son was when he was growing up. He was comfortable with who he was and quite unwilling to change just to suit others but he also felt very hurt at being the kid not invited to birthday parties, not chosen for teams in the school yard, etc.
We worked on this together because he asked for help. One simple suggestion that really worked was that he say or do one nice thing for one person every day. It could be something as simple as telling someone they looked nice or as involved in helping someone to better understand a homework assignment.
By the time he started middle school, he had a small circle of friends. By the time he graduated from high school, he was one of the most popular kids at Columbia and enjoying his many and varied extra-curricular activities.
Good luck. I hope everything works out. |
Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2587
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 9:05 pm: |
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Yep, clothes alone won't get it in the long run but very cool that the godfather did that!
If she's always had problems making friends, I guess I would offer to her the possibility of counselling, but more as someone other than parents to talk (as opposed to pitching it as "fixing" her). Seems like the right counselor might be very helpful to her. I'd for sure offer it to her, including the right to say "no, this one isn't for me but maybe another one." She might like having a separate, safe adult to talk through things with.
I grew up with the kinds of home issues Tom speaks about, with my mother, and while it didn't completely restrict me socially it played a big part in my inwardness and feelings of differentness -- which at times made it hard for me to do friendship, so to speak. But, I was lucku enough from time to time to find an adult -- and in one case a male gym teacher/wrestling coach! -- to express my stuff to. Can make all the difference.
Another weird thought: how is she with animals, littler kids or old people? Maybe those are "safer" individuals to cultivate her skills with and develop confidence? |
MHCLyons
Citizen
Username: Hamandeggs
Post Number: 243
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 6:08 am: |
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My son (sigh) is in a difficult place with the whole friend thing. He would like to get out of it, so we do a lot of roleplaying. If he wants to play 4square at recesss (and since they aren't already his buddies) it's hard to approach the situation and ask. So we practice versions of this over and over.
He didn't buy it at first, but once he had a little success he wanted to role play more, similar situations. This isn't a long-term fix, but he gets thru the days a little more happily now.
My first child did this too and I started taking her and involving her in a house of worship, which also helped enormously. It helped her to be in a place that was focused on something bigger than herself, but mostly because the values and behaviors expected of kids are stated there very clearly. So it was easier to mingle, knowing exactly what was and wasn't expected. I've been doing this again with the current challenge and it's good for him too.
I know it can feel like your heart is hitting your stomach, but it will be okay. |
algebra2
Supporter
Username: Algebra2
Post Number: 4036
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 7:48 am: |
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There's a book written by Natalie Ellman who runs a social skills class at The Summit Center for Learning. It's called The Unwritten Rules of Making Friends and I found it helpful. |
6yearrez
Citizen
Username: 6yearrez
Post Number: 160
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 11:33 pm: |
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Our oldest daughter sounds very much like the daughter you describe. Ours will also be entering middle school, she's bright, loves to write, is shy at school (always has been an issue with her teachers). She does a few things that help, and maybe this will help you
1. When something is on her mind, I find that she writes a short story about it. She writes on the computer and usually shows me what she's done. A great starting point for a talk. If something is really on your daughter's mind, see what she's writing. She can work through it on paper.
2. Our daughter has been seeing the social work intern weekly at her elementary school. She's been doing this for a couple of years, and it has really helped her social confidence. She sometimes brings a friend with her to these meetings, if she wants to. I can't tell you how much these meetings have helped. She's still shy but she likes who she is. She's got a small handful of good friends, most of whom will be going to the other middle school next year(!), and this is making her pretty nervous. We just talk and talk as much as she wants, and try to be reassuring.
The social work intern told me that the same social work support will be available for her when she enters middle school, and we are going to be on that one right away. I think this is a good suggestion for you as well. Your daughter might really like the one-on-one.
3. As in your home, our next youngest daughter is socially very confident, and clearly this makes the oldest pretty jealous. She told us specifically that she is not inviting a friend over when her sister is home because she thinks her sister will steal the friend's attention. We accomodate by having her friends over when the sister is not home.
4. Don't undervalue friendships with boys. There's none of that weird girl stuff that comes with this age. Of course girls need some girlfriends, but it's so valuable to have boys as friends. I really allow her to take the lead on who she spends time with.
I hope this helps.
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